Kid's Sport - when does it become all about winning?

[DocK]

I'm looking for a reality check. My two sons have been part of an under 13 hockey team all season, have attended training each week and played all games. They are amongst the weaker players on the team, and are probably never going to be sporting superstars - although they started the sport later than most and have been improving over the season. Nobody on the team wants to be the goalie, and my two have performed this task more often than most.

We are now at the pointy end of the season. Their last game was the semi (their team finished top of the ladder), which the team won. One son was goalie, and the other one was only played for about two-thirds of the game. The more talented players are never subbed off.

They came home from training this week quite disillusioned as they and one other boy (also one of the weaker players) had been singled out in front of the whole team by the coach who stated she wanted one of them to volunteer to be goalie, as they were the weakest players on the team. She also told the team that she would be fielding the strongest players possible, so not everyone would get equal field time.

I should mention that this is club sport, at the lowest level they can play. It is not a regional or state team, although some of the kids on the team do get chosen to play in rep sides. (not mine, obviously).

I think the whole situation stinks. I think at their age and at club level the emphasis should be on teamwork and a fair go for everyone. I think if you've trained and played all season, and have paid the same fees, you deserve an equal run. I think kids of that age should be encouraged to work together, as a team, even if that means letting the weaker players have equal field time as the stars.

I have been told to get my head out of the clouds and join the real world. Life's not fair, the aim is to win, it's not fair to the rest of the kids to possibly lose the grandfinal just so that everyone is treated "fairly". Basically, I've been told my boys need to just "suck it up" and accept the best thing for the team is for them to warm the bench. As a parent it hurts me to see their self-esteem being trodden on, and I don't want to see them abandon sport altogether. I'd expect the emphasis to be on winning if it was a rep side, but I can see why childhood obestity is such an issue if only the kids who have above average sporting ability are encouraged to stick with it.

What do you think? Am I justified in being upset with the coach, or do I need a "reality check"? Don't hold back - I'd appreciate honest opinions.

 

[Mr J]

It sounds harsh to single them out and tell them they're the weakest on the team. I think it's fine that the coach and team wants to win, but as you say at the end of the day that isn't what it is really about at that level. Seems to me that the middle-ground is the place to be.

 

[springhill]

I'm looking for a reality check. My two sons have been part of an under 13 hockey team all season, have attended training each week and played all games. They are amongst the weaker players on the team, and are probably never going to be sporting superstars - although they started the sport later than most and have been improving over the season. Nobody on the team wants to be the goalie, and my two have performed this task more often than most.

We are now at the pointy end of the season. Their last game was the semi (their team finished top of the ladder), which the team won. One son was goalie, and the other one was only played for about two-thirds of the game. The more talented players are never subbed off.

They came home from training this week quite disillusioned as they and one other boy (also one of the weaker players) had been singled out in front of the whole team by the coach who stated she wanted one of them to volunteer to be goalie, as they were the weakest players on the team. She also told the team that she would be fielding the strongest players possible, so not everyone would get equal field time.

I should mention that this is club sport, at the lowest level they can play. It is not a regional or state team, although some of the kids on the team do get chosen to play in rep sides. (not mine, obviously).

I think the whole situation stinks. I think at their age and at club level the emphasis should be on teamwork and a fair go for everyone. I think if you've trained and played all season, and have paid the same fees, you deserve an equal run. I think kids of that age should be encouraged to work together, as a team, even if that means letting the weaker players have equal field time as the stars.

I have been told to get my head out of the clouds and join the real world. Life's not fair, the aim is to win, it's not fair to the rest of the kids to possibly lose the grandfinal just so that everyone is treated "fairly". Basically, I've been told my boys need to just "suck it up" and accept the best thing for the team is for them to warm the bench. As a parent it hurts me to see their self-esteem being trodden on, and I don't want to see them abandon sport altogether. I'd expect the emphasis to be on winning if it was a rep side, but I can see why childhood obestity is such an issue if only the kids who have above average sporting ability are encouraged to stick with it.

What do you think? Am I justified in being upset with the coach, or do I need a "reality check"? Don't hold back - I'd appreciate honest opinions.

Great post DocK, thats quite a conundrum!
Look IMO, while your kids may have their feelings hurt, which is always regrettable, i would look on it as a great life lesson. Life isn't fair, in fact life can be a real k**t! Your kids are participating in a team which is top of the ladder, would they rather be the best players in the bottom of the ladder team or enjoy some success? No matter if your kids are considered by some to be a 'weak link'.... one playing goalie (an integral and very important part of the team) and the other playing 2/3s game time is nothing to be sneezed at. Not as if they are put on for 10min runs out of pity.
Maybe it's time to feed them a spoonful of cement
I don't agree with the coach publicly singling them out though. That could've been a private discussion.

In the words of Ricky-Bobby "If you're not first, you're last".

 

[Duckman#72]

They came home from training this week quite disillusioned as they and one other boy (also one of the weaker players) had been singled out in front of the whole team by the coach who stated she wanted one of them to volunteer to be goalie, as they were the weakest players on the team. She also told the team that she would be fielding the strongest players possible, so not everyone would get equal field time.

I have been told to get my head out of the clouds and join the real world. Life's not fair, the aim is to win, it's not fair to the rest of the kids to possibly lose the grandfinal just so that everyone is treated "fairly". Basically, I've been told my boys need to just "suck it up" and accept the best thing for the team is for them to warm the bench. As a parent it hurts me to see their self-esteem being trodden on, and I don't want to see them abandon sport altogether. I'd expect the emphasis to be on winning if it was a rep side, but I can see why childhood obestity is such an issue if only the kids who have above average sporting ability are encouraged to stick with it.

What do you think? Am I justified in being upset with the coach, or do I need a "reality check"? Don't hold back - I'd appreciate honest opinions.

Sport doesn't build character....it reveals it. It reveals a lot about the boys coach - none of it good.

Unfortunately your boys are at the age where the line is blurred at "sport for commaraderie, enjoyment and health" and "sport as an avenue to win at all cost".

I feel for your position as you don't want this incident to be a turning point for your sons away from organised sport and all the associated potential benefits.

Stick to your guns. My advice would be tells the boys exactly what you think of the situation and that it concerns you. I would also advise them to play, as they are still part of the team and need to learn to honour their commitments, even when the going gets tough.

At the end of the season, I would be writing to the organisation, advising why the boys won't be playing with the club again (with the boys agreeance) and things that they could do to improve the coaching aspects. I would then look for a sport club that has a better fit for your character traits, life goals for the boys.

I can guarantee that after 6 months of playing in a club that shares your views on sport and life, the boys will be much happier anyway.

The feelings of winning and losing are lost in time, what lingers is how you felt to be part of the team. I bet your boys won't have great memories even if you win the flag. Finish up at the end of the season.

Duckman

 

[DocK]

Should mention that playing 2/3 of a game is the least that any kid plays - most just subbed off for 5 mins for a breather, and some not at all. Can see your point about enjoying the team's success - but they have rather been made to feel that they haven't really contributed to it. Coach is quite young and has no kids of her own - hence the rather unsubtle treatment. Her hockey skills are fine, people skills not so good!

 

[Judd]

First, I understand the approach by the coach. Competition means winning. Hall of fame for less than 15 minutes before they rocket to obscurity or the talented move on up as they getter better and/or older.

But I don't agree with it. I think it is most unfair. We are talking about U12's. Young children. Competition is nice, but at that age and competency level it should be about participation and encouraging the children to continue with the sport. However, adults cannot seem to remove the have to win element. I'd rather rotate all the children through the game, asking and expecting them to do their very best with the win being a bonus.

Sadly that is not going to happen. Never does with any activity organised for children by adults; wont even let them fly kites without turning it into a competition.

 

[DocK]

Sport doesn't build character....it reveals it. It reveals a lot about the boys coach - none of it good.

Unfortunately your boys are at the age where the line is blurred at "sport for commaraderie, enjoyment and health" and "sport as an avenue to win at all cost".

I feel for your position as you don't want this incident to be a turning point for your sons away from organised sport and all the associated potential benefits.

Stick to your guns. My advice would be tells the boys exactly what you think of the situation and that it concerns you. I would also advise them to play, as they are still part of the team and need to learn to honour their commitments, even when the going gets tough.

At the end of the season, I would be writing to the organisation, advising why the boys won't be playing with the club again (with the boys agreeance) and things that they could do to improve the coaching aspects. I would then look for a sport club that has a better fit for your character traits, life goals for the boys.

I can guarantee that after 6 months of playing in a club that shares your views on sport and life, the boys will be much happier anyway.

The feelings of winning and losing are lost in time, what lingers is how you felt to be part of the team. I bet your boys won't have great memories even if you win the flag. Finish up at the end of the season.

Duckman

They'll definitely be playing tomorrow - wouldn't dream of letting their teammates down by not turning up! Problem is there is only really one club in our area and they were just starting to build some skills and confidence after starting the game a few years after most of their mates. They both intended to play again next winter, and enjoy the friendships they've made through the sport. I know as they get older things will get to the point where you either keep up or give up, just thought 13 was a few years off that point.

Maybe I'll just wait and see how much game time they get tomorrow, and make sure they don't wind up with the same coach next year. Problem is, as with most kids sport these days it's hard to find enough qualified people willing to give up their time to coach. Unfortunately I know nothing about the sport myself, or I'd volunteer myself.

 

[DocK]

First, I understand the approach by the coach. Competition means winning. Hall of fame for less than 15 minutes before they rocket to obscurity or the talented move on up as they getter better and/or older.

But I don't agree with it. I think it is most unfair. We are talking about U12's. Young children. Competition is nice, but at that age and competency level it should be about participation and encouraging the children to continue with the sport. However, adults cannot seem to remove the have to win element. I'd rather rotate all the children through the game, asking and expecting them to do their very best with the win being a bonus.

Sadly that is not going to happen. Never does with any activity organised for children by adults; wont even let them fly kites without turning it into a competition.

Sad, but true. I'm all for being competitive, but in its place. One son made the "B" rep side recently and I had no problem with him sitting on the sidelines for a good part of the game as I think "rep" sides are the correct place for "winning is the only focus". I don't think this should be the case at club level.

I know some parents would be quite happy to see all the kids get equal treatment, even if that means coming second rather than first. But there are just as many parents who are living their dreams through their kids and just want that trophy.

It's easy for me to say that of course, but I'd like to think that even if my kids were superstars I'd rather they learnt to treat their mates fairly, rather than win at their expense.

 

[Robshan]

Having myself played and coached sports it is a difficult one to answer.

As a player you like to win as much as possible ... as a coach you want the kids to win as much as possible (let's be honest, until late teens it's never the coaches strategic insight that wins games it's the kids).

I had the good fortune of having above average skills across a range of sports such as soccer, rubgy, basketball, golf, tennis etc. and there were many people I played with in my time that were both better and worse than me at each sport .... that's just how it is.

As a coach I felt it important to give everyone a fair go regardless of skill level because everyone had the same fees to pay, same school loads etc. and nothing worse for a parent than seeing your kid benched all game either, so I tried to be conscious of that. The way that I got around it was to place the stronger players around the weaker ones to help compensate if necessary but allow the weaker ones to be part of the team ... my main focus was on effort.. if the weaker ones were obviously trying then they deserved a go ... if they were playing silly buggers because their parents were forcing them into a sport that they held no interest then I'll happily oblige with bench time.

 

[DocK]

Sounds like a good approach Robshan. The team are a good bunch of kids for the most part. There are a couple of "standouts" who can be relied upon to back up other players in defence where needed (I think this is partly why the coach puts no value on having a strong goalie - she's counting on the ball not getting that far too often), and a couple of great attacking players. There's always one or two who aren't so great at passing the ball, but they tend to be quite talented and so are forgiven. Not hogging the ball is something that is often learned with a bit of maturity (and being yelled at by the rest of the team and coach)

My kids are generally played where they can be "backed up" if needed - and that's fine with me. I don't care what position the coach plays them at, provided it's not goalie every week, or warming the bench more than anyone else. My two love the game and play their hearts out every week, if they weren't so keen I don't think I'd be so bothered.

 

[moXJO]

My son is on a soccer team (8yo) where all the other players are soccer freaks. All the other kids seem destined for greatness.
But alas... my son has no skills at all. Even worse, because all the other kids are so good the coach doesn't bother training them. So my boy has not progressed this year in skill. I often wonder if he would be better off in a weaker team, so he can develop his skills more on field(considering his age).
I'm pretty sure the coach keeps him in the team as my misses organizes the end of year party

Methinks I should get off my lazy ass and kick the ball around with him again.

 

[Robshan]

My son is on a soccer team (8yo) where all the other players are soccer freaks. All the other kids seem destined for greatness.
But alas... my son has no skills at all. Even worse, because all the other kids are so good the coach doesn't bother training them. So my boy has not progressed this year in skill. I often wonder if he would be better off in a weaker team, so he can develop his skills more on field(considering his age).
I'm pretty sure the coach keeps him in the team as my misses organizes the end of year party

Methinks I should get off my lazy ass and kick the ball around with him again.

lol ... I'm actually in the same boat with my son (7yo).

I played soccer this year which I think inspired him to play but he got his skills from his mother not me.....

Personally I'm not too phased as he wants to get out on the golf course with me and possibly have a go at tennis. I dont really care what he plays as long as he has fun .....

 

[DocK]

When mine were that age I decided to let them try whatever they wanted, thinking they'd eventually decide on what they enjoyed the most - and I hoped like hell they agreed as it's much easier if they do the same sport. They tried tennis, and have always swum. Luckily they both wanted to do martial arts and did so for 4 odd years, progressing up the ranks until they got their junior black belts and then decided it was getting a bit boring as they weren't learning much new stuff. One of them wanted to quit about 6 months prior to doing his black belt grading, but I talked him into seeing it through, and he's glad now he did. I think it's fine for them to try a few different sports on for size when they're really little.

They both wanted to change to a team sport, and quite a few of their mates do the hockey in winter/cricket in summer thing. So that's where they're up to. Unfortunately, it's sometimes hard (when you don't have a great gene pool of sporting talent to draw on) to catch up in skill to your mates that have been playing the same sport for 4 or more years longer. Kids start so early these days, and tend to be steered towards whatever sport their parent/s are interested in, which is natural enough. Unfortunately for my kids, their parents aren't particularly sports-minded and are of very average ability themselves.

 

[prawn_86]

I'll share my own personal experiences.

I've played Aussie Rules since i was 5. For me the line of fun vs winning was when we moved up from Auskick to the Under 13s where we played against other teams in the district, as opposed to just other kids within the same town.

Unfortunately (or fortunately, whatever way you look at it), i too was pretty useless and was constantly in and out of the side at the under 13 level. I persisted and by my second year of U15s i was a core part of the team, and then into U18s and up the only time i missed a game was due to injury, and by my final year of U18s i was being selected for distric sides, but my knees were shot by then so didn't end up playing.

Anyway, moral of the story was it made me become a team player (team is greater than the individual) and made me strive to improve. Plus i was a late developer so maybe your kids are that too.

 

[Sir Osisofliver]

Sport doesn't build character....it reveals it.
Duckman

That is the quote of the day Duckman. I can only speak from personal experience. I played team sports at High School only when I was required to... Not because I was hopeless, I grew up with three brothers one of whom went on to play state level cricket, but because being a naturally competitive personality I didn't just want to win, I wanted to destroy the opposition.

That's an ugly character trait, so instead of subjecting others to it, I turned to sports where the only competitor...was me. Funnily enough I learned how to be a team player from realizing I wasn't a team player and working on that character flaw.

Trust me any of the following sports will keep your kids really fit...without having to deal with the bull****, red tape, cr@p coaches, annoying parents and other aggravations of team sports. You can even take friends along if you want to.

Rock climbing
Parachuting
Skiing
Hiking/Orienteering
White Water Rafting

Cheers

Sir O

 

[DocK]

I'll share my own personal experiences.

I've played Aussie Rules since i was 5. For me the line of fun vs winning was when we moved up from Auskick to the Under 13s where we played against other teams in the district, as opposed to just other kids within the same town.

Unfortunately (or fortunately, whatever way you look at it), i too was pretty useless and was constantly in and out of the side at the under 13 level. I persisted and by my second year of U15s i was a core part of the team, and then into U18s and up the only time i missed a game was due to injury, and by my final year of U18s i was being selected for distric sides, but my knees were shot by then so didn't end up playing.

Anyway, moral of the story was it made me become a team player (team is greater than the individual) and made me strive to improve. Plus i was a late developer so maybe your kids are that too.

Yes - hopefully they'll catch up in skill level with a few more years of experience, training and practice. I guess I'm struggling with putting what's best for the team ahead of what's best for my kids. As a parent I'm finding it hard to be unbiased. I'm also not convinced that the "win at all costs" approach is sending the best message to a team of 11 to 13 year-olds.

 

[Junior]

I quit playing Basketball at around age 15 because I ended up with a coach who was benching me for at least half the game each week. It sucks because I enjoyed playing and ended up starting again with a group of friends about 6 years later.

I was playing E grade basketball, at that low level everyone should get a fair go and get their money's worth.

So my opinion is that if you're playing low grade sport everyone should get a run.

 

[Mr J]

Yes - hopefully they'll catch up in skill level with a few more years of experience, training and practice. I guess I'm struggling with putting what's best for the team ahead of what's best for my kids. As a parent I'm finding it hard to be unbiased. I'm also not convinced that the "win at all costs" approach is sending the best message to a team of 11 to 13 year-olds.

Are you sure it is "win at all costs"? You said yourself that it is hard to be unbiased, and I imagine almost every parent is pretty biased. If they're getting a good amount of game time, then it can't be overly competitive.

 

[LonelyTrader]

I have to say that i feel for your situation Dock. It's a tough lesson to have to learn so young. Good on your boys for wanting to stick with it and good on the other players for not following in the coach's oppression. A children's junior sports team should never ever have have to deal with this sort of treatment. I know we live in the real world and people like to win but isn't it important to have fun and be fit and all that other good stuff that you learn from team sports. I think that Robshan had a great point to make. I think that all players should get a fair go and the coach should use the others players better to support the team. That's what team sport is all about!! Would it be worth talking to the coach about this??? Anyway I hope your boys do well and have fun with whatever they decide to do about this team!!

 

[doctorj]

As a kid, I used to play footy, basketball and cricket with varying degrees of success. I was never very good at footy in particular, but persisted with it on the insistance of my dad. I spent much of the game watching the ball fly in one direction or another over my head. I'd get frustrated when I felt players didn't pass it to me when I felt they could have. I also spent more than my fair share on the bench. Looking back though, I honestly believe it was good for me. I learnt at a young age that nothing is given, it is earned.

On the other hand, I was much better at basketball. Sure, I was never quite quick enough to be as short as I was, but I could more than hold up my role in a team. Also I found that many of the skills I learned playing footy were applicable to basketball (positioning to win rebounds for example).

I never really went anywhere as a basketball player (I still like to think that winning MVP in an u/16 a grade comp was a massive achievement, but in reality, it's not), but I playing gave me the opportunity to take up refereeing and have been lucky to be taken around Aus to referee.

To this day, I think the lessons I learned playing footy help me in some way each day. It's ok not to be the best at everything, you give something your all and one way or another you'll get what you deserve, even if it's not in the form you think.

I'd encourage your kids to stick with the hockey, encourage them to earn their position in the team, offer them support when they're down and applaud them when they do well.

If the coach is a good one, he'll be working with them at training to improve their skills and to help them win a place in the side. If he's not, then find a coach that will.