Jules Dawson options course
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wayneL
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If you really want to blow 2000-3000 on an options course, wait two or three years while I write one
No, just joking.I had a look at www.optionsuniversity.com's course and for simmilar $$$, it would knock Dawson's into a cocked hat.
Still a lot of money for what you can learn from a few books.
No affiliation blah blah.
Hi Wayne
Thanks for your reply I know you are the Options Master here so I view your comments with due respect.
I have been trying to get a grasp on the options side of it but was always having a hard time to actually understand the difference between a
Buy Call
Sell Call
Buy Put
Sell Put
Whilst this may seem pretty elementary to the learned everytime I started to learn confusion set in and it came to this literally.
I have only heard Jules in a Introductory type DVD and yes there is a sale of the home study course but he actually presented in a way that whilst I wouldn't say I am confident with options but at least I have made some headway in understanding what they do and their use.
Jules claims to have made alot of money trading and so perhaps he has and maybe not because he also sells how to buy property etc so this makes me a bit suspicious.
So I thought I would throw out to the forum to see if anyone has done his seminar or home study and if they have achieved good results.
If no replies I take it no one has.
cheers
SG
Thanks for your reply I know you are the Options Master here so I view your comments with due respect.
I have been trying to get a grasp on the options side of it but was always having a hard time to actually understand the difference between a
Buy Call
Sell Call
Buy Put
Sell Put
Whilst this may seem pretty elementary to the learned everytime I started to learn confusion set in and it came to this
literally.I have only heard Jules in a Introductory type DVD and yes there is a sale of the home study course but he actually presented in a way that whilst I wouldn't say I am confident with options but at least I have made some headway in understanding what they do and their use.
Jules claims to have made alot of money trading and so perhaps he has and maybe not because he also sells how to buy property etc so this makes me a bit suspicious.
So I thought I would throw out to the forum to see if anyone has done his seminar or home study and if they have achieved good results.
If no replies I take it no one has.
cheers
SG
wayneL
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Here's a couple of free courses that will teach the basics as good as any of Jules Dawson's ilk. (probably better)
http://www.21stcenturyinvestoreducation.com/courses/index.aspx
And this one from the Options Industry Council
http://www.888options.com/
The best thing about these is there is no pie in the sky BS.
http://www.21stcenturyinvestoreducation.com/courses/index.aspx
And this one from the Options Industry Council
http://www.888options.com/
The best thing about these is there is no pie in the sky BS.
Out of curiosity are there any Australian free courses like the ones that have been suggested.
Cost of doing the option Is Commsec the cheapest.
I have an E trade account and i have to set up a whole new account and answer a questionaire that i understand the options risk etc. Seems i have to do this to be able to see Calls and Put quotes even if i wanted to just practice.
What do people find that online do it yourself if ok or should one use a broker (pick up the phone and give instruction) type of thing.
Cheers
SG
Cost of doing the option Is Commsec the cheapest.
I have an E trade account and i have to set up a whole new account and answer a questionaire that i understand the options risk etc. Seems i have to do this to be able to see Calls and Put quotes even if i wanted to just practice.
What do people find that online do it yourself if ok or should one use a broker (pick up the phone and give instruction) type of thing.
Cheers
SG
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Hi Stargazer in answer to your question I have done the Jules Dawson Options Course and have some of his dvds and I have found them to be very helpful.It is one thing to read a book or do a online course but it is entirely different to have somebody explain options to you.He does go on with a fair bit of salesmanship which personally I could do without but his course has substance
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Just replied to another post and included info on the ASX online courses: https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10084
OptionsXpress currently appears cheaper than Commsec: https://www.optionsexpress.com.au/welcome/commissions.aspx
Conditions for their frequent trader status is on their website. I qualified for it, but found Berndale were manually adjusting for the discount, and it would often get missed. So would have to put in for a refund from time to time.
Also, we had to open a US account before opening an Aus account but didn't need to be funded. Hopefully they have changed that nuisance rule.
OX is pretty much a no frills brokerage, and has no monthly data costs. They also have online trading and no extra cost for phone trading (I see Commsec charge about $20 extra just for a phone order
)Also, OX charges a flat rate for option exercise regardless of size - not sure what Commsec charge, but when I left them, they had a hefty percentage fee based on the total cost of underlying shares which, at the time, was much higher than their normal share trading costs.
Trader Dealer is another one http://www.traderdealer.com.au/what-we-charge/fee-summary.php#options.
See the weblink for details of their software and data fee.
If you're not trading much and don't want to pay the monthly fee for WebIress, I believe they don't charge any extra for phone orders - but check with them on that one. If you can get option prices with Etrade, you might just be able to phone TD with your orders - could be worth checking out. Their service is second to none and I highly recommend them. One of the brokers usually answers the phone promptly - none of this being on hold or pressing numbers, etc, etc.
I prefer to trade online especially with options. It's too easy to make a mistake when you are specifiying buying or selling, underlying, option month, puts or calls, option strike, quantity price - and some of them also want the option code. Probably not so bad if just trading one option at a time, but not easy when several are being traded as one order to form a spread.
Others may recommend IB - but my experience has proved otherwise for Aus options.
Hope this helps!Thankyou very much for direct responses to my question.
Yes that is the only thing that makes me cautious of Jules is that he seems to be a Master Salesman and everyday now i am receiving offers of buying lots of DVDs for different strategies. Having said that Jules does have a great way to explain things and presents them in a simple format.
My focus at the moment is not to run before i walk sort of thing. Having said that i am looking at Covered Calls. Looking at the risk it appears to be on the low side. I am interested in the Income side of it.
There is a site called My Covered calls and it sells software to trade the calls.
The software does all the calculations for you. Net return after costs. They promote 2-4% per month.
Don't know if this is correct but if you buy the stock online then you have to wait for 3 days for it to settle. vs
If you buy via a Stockbroker it happens instanteous that is you buy and stock and the sell the call at the same time.
Happy for anyone that does covered calls to PM me if don't want to post as i am interested in this area, and want to ensure i know the concept and any traps that may be overlooked or not mentioned in the sales pitches.
Cheers
SG
Yes that is the only thing that makes me cautious of Jules is that he seems to be a Master Salesman and everyday now i am receiving offers of buying lots of DVDs for different strategies. Having said that Jules does have a great way to explain things and presents them in a simple format.
My focus at the moment is not to run before i walk sort of thing. Having said that i am looking at Covered Calls. Looking at the risk it appears to be on the low side. I am interested in the Income side of it.
There is a site called My Covered calls and it sells software to trade the calls.
The software does all the calculations for you. Net return after costs. They promote 2-4% per month.
Don't know if this is correct but if you buy the stock online then you have to wait for 3 days for it to settle. vs
If you buy via a Stockbroker it happens instanteous that is you buy and stock and the sell the call at the same time.
Happy for anyone that does covered calls to PM me if don't want to post as i am interested in this area, and want to ensure i know the concept and any traps that may be overlooked or not mentioned in the sales pitches.
Cheers
SG
wayneL
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Danger signal as far as I am concerned, 2-4% month is not a good way to look at it.
If the dog-gone stocks would just stay still, 2-4% would be a cake walk, but the problem is, they move.
Let's do some scenarios to illustrate. Say you buy stock @ $100 and write ATM calls for three dollars. If the stock stayed at $100, you collect 3%... loverly.
Let's say the stock goes to $110. You make $10 on the stock and lose $7 on the call. Effectively still 3% by the time you are assigned etc. Still OK.
But if the stock goes down to $90, you lose $10 on the stock and pick up the $3 premium. A 7% loss.
Now you're down over two months of premium. No probs, so the logic goes, just keep writing calls and what you lose on the roundabout, you pick up on the swing.
But to get the 3% premium again, you have to write ATM ($90) calls, and your gain is capped at 3%. So it takes you 3 months nearly to get back to squits.
If the stock ends the year still at $100, but moves exactly the wrong way for the strategy, you could have a nasty loss. Looking at this year so far, buy-writers would be sitting on a nasty loss.
2-4% sounds like an easy ~40% per year. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But Murphy's Law can take you out.
The best way to look at covered calls is as income on long term holdings that aren't rising. Those that are holding stocks, come what may through the current volatility and writing calls over them, would be doing better than those that are just holding.
That's what I'm doing on a portfolio I'm managing over here in England.
Covered calls are one tool that are appropriate for certain situations, but unless you want to be really active (and accurate, crystal ball required) in selecting and managing candidates, systematic buy-writing has knobs on it. If you want to be really active, there are a range of strategies that can be used, or, just trade stock.
See http://sigmaoptions.blogspot.com/2006/12/reasons-to-not-chase-big-cc-premium.html
and http://sigmaoptions.blogspot.com/2006/12/reasons-to-not-chase-big-cc-premium_20.html
and http://sigmaoptions.blogspot.com/2006/12/reasons-to-not-chase-big-cc-premium-re.html
IMO
Cheers
Wayne
Have you thought of putting your options knowledge into an ebook and selling it for say $100?
It could supply wannabe options traders with the information they'd need if they're to have a fighting chance of being profitable in options.
It could enable them to avoid paying thousands for an options course that would teach them nothing more than they'd learn from your ebook.
It would be a great service to your fellow traders, many of whom get ripped off by mongrels who sell them courses that are big in price but small in content.
It could be quite a lucrative venture for you. If you compiled a really good options ebook that became the industry benchmark because of its excellent and comprehensive information, you could sell many thousands of them over a period of years. Not a bad little retirement fund.
Have a think about it. Seriously.
Have you thought of putting your options knowledge into an ebook and selling it for say $100?
It could supply wannabe options traders with the information they'd need if they're to have a fighting chance of being profitable in options.
It could enable them to avoid paying thousands for an options course that would teach them nothing more than they'd learn from your ebook.
It would be a great service to your fellow traders, many of whom get ripped off by mongrels who sell them courses that are big in price but small in content.
It could be quite a lucrative venture for you. If you compiled a really good options ebook that became the industry benchmark because of its excellent and comprehensive information, you could sell many thousands of them over a period of years. Not a bad little retirement fund.
Have a think about it. Seriously.
Trembling Hand
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Kauri
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what are options???
Slainte .............
..............me
Slainte .............
..............me
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TH, I agree with you. There is already an enormous amount of free material out there, but somehow sofisticated marketing makes people feel they might miss out - or something...No one would be interested in it unless you sold it for $7000
And Wayne has practically written an option book on the pages of ASF already...
If people need to see how trading works with options, check out Nick Radge's Chartist program for a modest monthly fee to see how he trades them.
Good one, Kauri
Hi all
Thanks again for the replies it really makes you think is there a solution?
Looking at this from a novice:
Wayne:
I understand what you are saying the downside risk is there. eg BHP was $42and went down to $32 in a short time.
So what can one do if looking for income and some protection:
Buy Stock............capital growth
sell covered call......income
buy a put........insurance
Good point Wayne with the drop in price and the next month getting exercised at the lower level realising a loss even if it is minimised by the premiums received.
Cheers
SG
Thanks again for the replies it really makes you think is there a solution?
Looking at this from a novice:
Wayne:
I understand what you are saying the downside risk is there. eg BHP was $42and went down to $32 in a short time.
So what can one do if looking for income and some protection:
Buy Stock............capital growth
sell covered call......income
buy a put........insurance
Good point Wayne with the drop in price and the next month getting exercised at the lower level realising a loss even if it is minimised by the premiums received.
Cheers
SG
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Stargazer, its a good learning environment here at present - better because your money is not in the market. Covered calls were all the rage in the bull run, but in January alone the covered call funds lost over 19% and I guess, basis most exposure in banks, they would have lost the same again in February.
A lot of the heavily promoted option strategies tend to give a few years of gains back very quickly when things go pear shaped. It may take a few years to catch you, but it will eventually.
I know of a fund (whom will remain nameless) that had 35% - 50% returns yearly through the late 90's and were gaining a lot of exposure. In Sep 2001 they lost 65% of their capital in one trade. That's ok - they changed their name and started again in October with a fresh slate and marketing to a new set of investors. Too bad if you were one of the old ones though...
The advice on looking up WayneL's posts, and Sails for that matter, will get you onto a good learning foundation. Learn about the importance of volatility and why it should be your first reference point for a trade regardless of market direction. Mis-use volatility and you'll pay the price.
I normally recommend the Natenberg book, but have recently got the Cottle book (brought to my attention on these pages) but am yet to read it. These two books will set you back less than $100 and give you everything you need except experience.
A lot of the heavily promoted option strategies tend to give a few years of gains back very quickly when things go pear shaped. It may take a few years to catch you, but it will eventually.
I know of a fund (whom will remain nameless) that had 35% - 50% returns yearly through the late 90's and were gaining a lot of exposure. In Sep 2001 they lost 65% of their capital in one trade. That's ok - they changed their name and started again in October with a fresh slate and marketing to a new set of investors. Too bad if you were one of the old ones though...
The advice on looking up WayneL's posts, and Sails for that matter, will get you onto a good learning foundation. Learn about the importance of volatility and why it should be your first reference point for a trade regardless of market direction. Mis-use volatility and you'll pay the price.
I normally recommend the Natenberg book, but have recently got the Cottle book (brought to my attention on these pages) but am yet to read it. These two books will set you back less than $100 and give you everything you need except experience.
wayneL
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Bunyip,
I've been fantasizing about the idea for a while. The thing that seriously puts me off the idea is the marketing. It seems one has to write some truly spew-worthy nonsense to sell one's idea on the internet. I might just do something, but I would want to try a different model, different to the tripe that pervades.... and I'll have to brush up on my grammar.
... but I am humbled.
Trembling Hand,
True but just couldn't go there... Robbery IMO.
Stargazer,
What generally is promoted is: Learn a strategy or two, and look for candidates to suit the strategy. The problem is that the market will go and change on you at some point, and your strategy will be exactly the wrong thing to do.
I firmly believe that you need have a dynamic view:
*What are you trying to do for your account? Income? Hedge? Cap Gain?
*What do you think the market is going to do, and what is the current and projected volatilty.
*What to you think it won't do?
*How do you cover your @rse if you're wrong?
*Use strategy to suit the above.
It is a tall order if you're learning, but it's the best chance for success in the long term IMO. Eventually, it becomes second nature.
I've been fantasizing about the idea for a while. The thing that seriously puts me off the idea is the marketing. It seems one has to write some truly spew-worthy nonsense to sell one's idea on the internet. I might just do something, but I would want to try a different model, different to the tripe that pervades.... and I'll have to brush up on my grammar.
... but I am humbled.
Trembling Hand,
True
but just couldn't go there... Robbery IMO.Stargazer,
What generally is promoted is: Learn a strategy or two, and look for candidates to suit the strategy. The problem is that the market will go and change on you at some point, and your strategy will be exactly the wrong thing to do.
I firmly believe that you need have a dynamic view:
*What are you trying to do for your account? Income? Hedge? Cap Gain?
*What do you think the market is going to do, and what is the current and projected volatilty.
*What to you think it won't do?
*How do you cover your @rse if you're wrong?
*Use strategy to suit the above.
It is a tall order if you're learning, but it's the best chance for success in the long term IMO. Eventually, it becomes second nature.
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Bunyip,
I've been fantasizing about the idea for a while. The thing that seriously puts me off the idea is the marketing. It seems one has to write some truly spew-worthy nonsense to sell one's idea on the internet. I might just do something, but I would want to try a different model, different to the tripe that pervades.... and I'll have to brush up on my grammar.
Wayne, word of mouth can be surprisingly effective if the product is good value
Given your contributions to the site, I'm sure an arrangement can be made with Joe on this site as well.
Bunyip,
I've been fantasizing about the idea for a while. The thing that seriously puts me off the idea is the marketing. It seems one has to write some truly spew-worthy nonsense to sell one's idea on the internet. I might just do something, but I would want to try a different model, different to the tripe that pervades.... and I'll have to brush up on my grammar.
... but I am humbled.
Wayne
Many of the ebooks on trading seem to originate in the US, where bull****ting and being 'over the top' are the accepted norm.
English and writing were my strong subjects at school......I feel I could easily write something that would do an excellent job of promoting and marketing the product, without resorting to the type of rot and lies that accompany many of the trading ebooks on the market.
You compile the ebook, I'll be more than happy to write a promotional/marketing piece for it. If you don't like what I write, don't use it.
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