Is Shorten PM material?

SirRumpole · 15 March 2018

Logique said:
If Bill Shorten wants to make money out of dividend imputation, he should start by giving up his own franking credits.

And if he set an example you would expect everyone to do the same without complaint ?

sptrawler · 15 March 2018

Logique said:
The opposition has belled the cat. They're coming after Superannuation, and this is just the start.

That is the underlying message, that needs to be heeded.IMO

sptrawler · 15 March 2018

Actually silly billy, may well have just lost the unlosable election.

Tisme · 15 March 2018

sptrawler said:
Actually silly billy, may well have just lost the unlosable election.

That was my first thought. It's almost like they don't want to be elected? Maybe he's saving us from Wong and Tanyia?

PZ99 · 15 March 2018

sptrawler said:
Actually silly billy, may well have just lost the unlosable election.

You might be surprised. I work with thousands of people in West Sydney and I haven't met anyone there who even knows what imputation credits are - despite their conundrum of understanding the complexities of superannuation divvy payouts. Most of them have no money or are in debt.

To them the share market and divvies is all about keeping the latte hot for the toffs

tech/a · 15 March 2018

Weatherall AND Shorten.

God help us.
There is no God so we would be stuffed.

basilio · 15 March 2018

The move to challenge refunds of franking credits (vs just using them against taxable income) could end up exceptionally shrewd.

$8.5billion a year up for redistribution. Much of it from the very wealthy who frankly have done exceptionally well to date.
I reckon Shorten will reimburse "legitimate" pensioners who have been disadvantaged at whatever that will cost. That will leave around $8billion to improve services, cut low to middle class taxes, support legit business needs, reduce the deficit. Could be very attractive.

sptrawler · 15 March 2018

basilio said:
That will leave around $8billion to improve services, cut low to middle class taxes, .

I wouldn't bet on that, middle class welfare, has been a pet hate of Labor, for years.

Tisme · 15 March 2018

basilio said:
The move to challenge refunds of franking credits (vs just using them against taxable income) could end up exceptionally shrewd.

$8.5billion a year up for redistribution. Much of it from the very wealthy who frankly have done exceptionally well to date.
I reckon Shorten will reimburse "legitimate" pensioners who have been disadvantaged at whatever that will cost. That will leave around $8billion to improve services, cut low to middle class taxes, support legit business needs, reduce the deficit. Could be very attractive.

Will also result in less dividends and more company equity to expand the business

sptrawler · 15 March 2018

Tisme said:
Will also result in less dividends and more company equity to expand the business

Or send overseas.

SuperGlue · 17 March 2018

basilio said:
I reckon Shorten will reimburse "legitimate" pensioners who have been disadvantaged at whatever that will cost. That will leave around $8billion to improve services, cut low to middle class taxes, support legit business needs, reduce the deficit. Could be very attractive.

Gives with one hand and takes away with the other.
Makes them look good doesn't it.

Could be very attractive for them to go on another spending spree like the previous school & roof insulation program.

What about "pension bracket creep" for borderline self funded retirees who rely on dividends as the years go by?
Hopefully they'll be dead by then.

SirRumpole · 17 March 2018

SuperGlue said:
Gives with one hand and takes away with the other.
Makes them look good doesn't it.

Saving $8 billion dollars is worthwhile .

bellenuit · 17 March 2018

SirRumpole said:
Saving $8 billion dollars is worthwhile .

Saving? Saving is when you cut spending, not increase taxes.

SirRumpole · 17 March 2018

bellenuit said:
Saving? Saving is when you cut spending, not increase taxes.

Taxes haven't increased, some people won't get a refund of taxes they haven't paid.

moXJO · 17 March 2018

SirRumpole said:
Taxes haven't increased, some people won't get a refund of taxes they haven't paid.

They are part owners of the company and pay tax at a higher rate. They are being double taxed.

moXJO · 17 March 2018

SirRumpole said:
Taxes haven't increased, some people won't get a refund of taxes they haven't paid.

They are part owners of the company and pay tax at a higher rate. They are being double taxed.

SirRumpole · 17 March 2018

moXJO said:
They are part owners of the company and pay tax at a higher rate. They are being double taxed.

They don't pay tax at all as I understand it.

moXJO · 17 March 2018

SirRumpole said:
They don't pay tax at all as I understand it.

They get paid a dividend, that is then taxed at 30%.
The dividend is their money prior to tax. They pay tax on that dividend.
If its above their rate they are entitled to the difference.

bellenuit · 17 March 2018

SirRumpole said:
Taxes haven't increased, some people won't get a refund of taxes they haven't paid.

Taxes have increased. Where does your $8B come from otherwise. The effective tax rate on grossed up dividends received by a person who was previously under the bottom tax threshold has increased from 0% to 30% for fully franked dividends.

I am not saying that the move is wrong. Just calling a spade a spade.

TikoMike · 17 March 2018

SirRumpole said:
They don't pay tax at all as I understand it.

MoXJO is right. It's basic accounting 101.

You need to think along the lines of GST. The consumer at the end of the day should be the one who gets taxed, not the company/entity who bought the item from its supplier. I know GST is apples/oranges but I'm trying to use an illustrative example of it being the tail end that gets assessable for tax.

In terms of franked dividends, it's the shareholder who should get taxed because they get the benefit of the income. The company no longer receives the benefit of that income if it pays it out. If the company paid the tax associated with these dividends then the shareholder should be able to use this as a tax refundable offset as it's like the company prepaid the tax on their behalf. If the company retains the earnings and never pays it out as dividends, then it's the company receiving the benefit and the tax rate for that earned income remains 30% until they decide to pay it out as franked dividends.

So this new tax scheme by Shortonbrains is double taxation or theft. It would be similar to him saying that he won't pay the refund back for the excess of offsets you claim on PAYG Withholding or PAYG Instalments.

Is Shorten PM material?