Is returning to the bottom the best for your new career?

[Insan3]

Hi all,

I'm currently in a dilemma, and have no-one to share my thoughts with to help find a solution!

I've got an interview tomorrow for a new job. Admin. Not what I want. But it is where I want. Financial Planning firm, specialising in High Net Worth.

I am 24, dropped out 3/4 through an IT degree, have 3 years of banking background, where I was promoted 4 times, and blocked from 2 further promotions due to new HR rules (must stay in 1 position for 12 mths, no matter how well you are doing). So I quit, and decided to work in family Building Business. Not enjoying as much as I would like, but I get lots of freedom, but plenty of boredom.

Now, I am 1/2 way through my Dip.Financial Planning. This is what I want to do. Paraplanning, to be specific.

I have spoken with 2 other firms, who both basically gave me jobs, after several meetings and interviews. Neither were advertising, I just approached. On both occasions, despite telling me that I'd be good and I'll be starting on $abc for the first year, then $xyz for the 2nd year, when it come time to sign the contract, they 'put it off' for another 6 months. Review conditions and business levels....

So, brings me to the interview. They want someone Admin. Do all the paperwork of Life Policies/Fund Managers. Book all appointments. Schedule and plan seminar nights. Answer the phone. Obtain payments from clients. They want someone who has done DFP1. They want someone with background. My problem - they want this person to clean the kitchen. They want this person to do all those receptionist type jobs. They want this person to work for less than $40,000/yr.

So, these other companies offered me Junior paraplanner roles @ $55k, but didn't deliver. I have been on $45k since 2004.

Is it worthwhile dropping back to $40k, taking an Admin job (not being sexist, but it sounds like it is tailored for a female employee) then trying to internally gain a promotion to Paraplanner in the next 12-18mths when I complete Diploma?

I just don't want to be seen as a unvalued, uneducated, Admin type employee capable of only remedial jobs and not worthy of a promotion - ever. It's frustrating that past experience at a major bank seems to count for nothing!

That said, no-one believes I can do a SOA.....? Maybe I should do the remedial work for a while....

Sorry for the rant. Thanks for reading!

 

[Trembling Hand]

(not being sexist, but it sounds like it is tailored for a female employee)

Sorry but that is being sexist.

 

[Insan3]

Sorry but that is being sexist.

OK, so I'll admit it is.

But that is life - Sex, Appearance, Weight, Hairstyle play a big part in stereotyping people into certain roles, and out of others.

The stereotype is there that admin staff are female. And admin staff will always be admin staff.

My fiancee works in admin, and she is unable to get out of it. About 35 rejections in the past 12 months.

I don't want to get myself into this position of being overlooked for everything.

 

[Happy]

OK, so I'll admit it is.


My fiancee works in admin, and she is unable to get out of it. About 35 rejections in the past 12 months.

Looks like clue to me.

Once you go down a notch or two, might be difficult to get back up again.

 

[nioka]

You would not have got a job in one of my companies. You are not the type of person who will persist if things get dull (and they always have those dull periods). I doubt if you really know what you want to do with your life.
Maybe I'm reading things wrong but I don't think so.

 

[MRC & Co]

You are not the type of person who will persist if things get dull

Remember this! Persistence is paramount!

If I was you, I would NOT take this job.

Stay in your family building job until a Jr Paraplanner comes up.

Might be tough in Cairns though, and if there are FEW of these available over the course of a year or two, its probably best to let this firm know after you have done your 1+ years in this role, you want to move into a Jr Paraplanning position.

 

[Aussie2Aussie]

Hi all,

I'm currently in a dilemma, and have no-one to share my thoughts with to help find a solution!

I've got an interview tomorrow for a new job. Admin. Not what I want. But it is where I want. Financial Planning firm, specialising in High Net Worth.

I am 24, dropped out 3/4 through an IT degree, have 3 years of banking background, where I was promoted 4 times, and blocked from 2 further promotions due to new HR rules (must stay in 1 position for 12 mths, no matter how well you are doing). So I quit, and decided to work in family Building Business. Not enjoying as much as I would like, but I get lots of freedom, but plenty of boredom.

Now, I am 1/2 way through my Dip.Financial Planning. This is what I want to do. Paraplanning, to be specific.

I have spoken with 2 other firms, who both basically gave me jobs, after several meetings and interviews. Neither were advertising, I just approached. On both occasions, despite telling me that I'd be good and I'll be starting on $abc for the first year, then $xyz for the 2nd year, when it come time to sign the contract, they 'put it off' for another 6 months. Review conditions and business levels....

So, brings me to the interview. They want someone Admin. Do all the paperwork of Life Policies/Fund Managers. Book all appointments. Schedule and plan seminar nights. Answer the phone. Obtain payments from clients. They want someone who has done DFP1. They want someone with background. My problem - they want this person to clean the kitchen. They want this person to do all those receptionist type jobs. They want this person to work for less than $40,000/yr.

So, these other companies offered me Junior paraplanner roles @ $55k, but didn't deliver. I have been on $45k since 2004.

Is it worthwhile dropping back to $40k, taking an Admin job (not being sexist, but it sounds like it is tailored for a female employee) then trying to internally gain a promotion to Paraplanner in the next 12-18mths when I complete Diploma?

I just don't want to be seen as a unvalued, uneducated, Admin type employee capable of only remedial jobs and not worthy of a promotion - ever. It's frustrating that past experience at a major bank seems to count for nothing!

That said, no-one believes I can do a SOA.....? Maybe I should do the remedial work for a while....

Sorry for the rant. Thanks for reading!

Dont take the job on offer, not going to be great time to look around, but the job you are being interviewed for will not bring you anything but a need to exit.

Sit tight and wait for whats good for you, as long as you are earning you can afford to wait for what (at interview time) you believe is the correct opportunity for you. Dont let salary dictate, if this job was the dream entry point and the salary was $40k, we wouldnt be having this conversation.

 

[tech/a]

I'm afraid I'm with Nioka.

You alone control your destiny regardless of how you percieve that to be the role of an employer,current or future.

If your finding lots of free time and your job is dull your clearly not an asset to the business. Employees on way above average incomes are way above the level of motivation and innovative thinking than the rest. They create value to their company.
You arent self motivated.
You dont look outside the square and create a worth to your company.

Your about to settle for a compromise one which wont likely result in a change of career within---unless they recognise your future worth.
You have to negotiate this.You have to be certain they know where you want to be and you have to be certain that they will open the doors for you.

If you cant get a solid commitment (In writing) of direction and a wage commensurate with your current level---beyond admin---then these arent the employers for you.

You are the only asset you have become a sought after employee regardless of what your in.
Good employers---the ones that pass YOUR interview will give you targets and undertakings particularly if you go into this interveiw with set goals and expectations which YOU EXPECT your new employer to fulfill.

Remember this interview may well be an opportunity to see who you are but the only opportunity you'll have to see who you'll be letting have the opportunity to govern your immediate future!

Ask what you can do for me as you will be telling them what you can do for them.
Unfortunately your current employer is not likely to be wracked with grief when they call for a reference---and they will pick up on that---I would.

Dont settle for second best---employers shouldnt and nor should EMPLOYEES.

 

[gfresh]

If you want to be a Paraplanner, why are you taking up an admin position? Doesn't seem like the best pathway to me, and if doesn't work out, no doubt you'll be out the door quicksmart. That's just wasting that employer's time, and probably yours.

I'd start by finishing the diploma, and then start looking for roles that you actually want and are then qualified for.

If you have further troubles finding a suitable job at that time, I'd consider moving to a more major centre. You will probably be offered more accordingly.

 

[Insan3]

You would not have got a job in one of my companies. You are not the type of person who will persist if things get dull (and they always have those dull periods). I doubt if you really know what you want to do with your life.
Maybe I'm reading things wrong but I don't think so.

Thanks for the feedback from the perspective of a company exec/owner. I don't agree with how you are reading things, but that doesn't mean you aren't right. This is what I want to do - I don't understand where the doubt comes from. I worked in finance, left due to relocation, now trying to re-enter...

Remember this! Persistence is paramount!

If I was you, I would NOT take this job.

Stay in your family building job until a Jr Paraplanner comes up.

Might be tough in Cairns though, and if there are FEW of these available over the course of a year or two, its probably best to let this firm know after you have done your 1+ years in this role, you want to move into a Jr Paraplanning position.

Yep, tough in Cairns. For career, should have stayed in Brisbane. But my fiancee really disliked living there, and is much happier here. Career is important to me, but not as important as her/our happiness.

I'm afraid I'm with Nioka.

You alone control your destiny regardless of how you percieve that to be the role of an employer,current or future.

If your finding lots of free time and your job is dull your clearly not an asset to the business. Employees on way above average incomes are way above the level of motivation and innovative thinking than the rest. They create value to their company.
You arent self motivated.
You dont look outside the square and create a worth to your company.

Your about to settle for a compromise one which wont likely result in a change of career within---unless they recognise your future worth.
You have to negotiate this.You have to be certain they know where you want to be and you have to be certain that they will open the doors for you.

If you cant get a solid commitment (In writing) of direction and a wage commensurate with your current level---beyond admin---then these arent the employers for you.

You are the only asset you have become a sought after employee regardless of what your in.
Good employers---the ones that pass YOUR interview will give you targets and undertakings particularly if you go into this interveiw with set goals and expectations which YOU EXPECT your new employer to fulfill.

Remember this interview may well be an opportunity to see who you are but the only opportunity you'll have to see who you'll be letting have the opportunity to govern your immediate future!

Ask what you can do for me as you will be telling them what you can do for them.
Unfortunately your current employer is not likely to be wracked with grief when they call for a reference---and they will pick up on that---I would.

Dont settle for second best---employers shouldnt and nor should EMPLOYEES.

Yes, I agree I am in control. That's why I'm doing the study, that's why I'm applying. That's why I am trying to find different paths to reach my goal.

If your finding lots of free time and your job is dull your clearly not an asset to the business.

This is not something of my doing. When I worked at the bank, no free time, not dull. Felt like I was treated by management as a performing employee and an asset. But I had duties. Tasks. Targets. Responsibilities. Branch management, etc, etc. I do keep jobs ticking over. I am an asset. Problem is, when staff are set on a jobsite for 3+ days - I have very minimal to do.

Family business is an eye-opener. It's fly by the seat of your pants, make it up as you go, esp. in Building. And if it isn't exactly what the boss wants (dad!) it's wrong - even if it something that has multiple ways of being done, or if the apprentices are being taught a new method a TAFE - wrong!
Fellow staff (not family) also find it difficult when they are prevented from using their own skills and ideas - because they don't match my fathers. Are YOUR BOSSES ALWAYS absolutely 100% correct? No, no-one is.
I try to be proactive and it fails - he used a quote he had done in 2005 for a job now (!!!!!) despite the fact I spent a day getting updated estimates. Why? Don't know - but I know he wouldn't let me speak with the client.

Current employer is not providing references - they generally don't accept family. And no, not grief racked - my 18 yr old brother will step in, so no worries there. There is some disappointment though, but they understand I need a career and can't follow dad for 20 years.

Your about to settle for a compromise one which wont likely result in a change of career within---unless they recognise your future worth.
You have to negotiate this.You have to be certain they know where you want to be and you have to be certain that they will open the doors for you.

This is the crux of what I am asking - I guarantee you I can prove my future worth, or else I wouldn't be considering this. If I don't - my loss. I understand. That's why I will make it happen. This is also why i have an interview - they are claiming they wish to recruit someone with desire to move forward. I've just seen plenty of cases where this doesn't happen.

Do admin people get the chance to move up when they get quals, or are they always viewed within that company as an admin person, who has to clean everyones dishes and coffee cups at the end of the day?

 

[tech/a]

Do admin people get the chance to move up when they get quals, or are they always viewed within that company as an admin person, who has to clean everyones dishes and coffee cups at the end of the day?

Firstly there has to be a position either open or made available when you are fully or even better partially qualified.

Id be asking how they expect this to come about.
If your offered the job then ask for a formal offer in writing and set as a condition of acceptance your promotion to the position you really want.

If you dont get the job on your terms why do you want it?

 

[trishan9390]

Hi Isan3,
Sounds like you are in a career rut. I happen to work at a career management company and if you are interested in coming in to discuss your current career situation with one of our consultants give me a shout. They can give you some direction and advice. Offices is Melbourne and Sydney in though...

 

[Dezza]

Hey Insan3,

I'm currently a Senior Paraplanner at a large financial instituation/funds manager. There's thousands of jobs in Paraplanning in NSW ranging from entry level to senior / complex HNW positions. Just have to hang in there.

This time last year, when the super changes were slowly coming into effect, we employed about 8 new staff. But these days, with the market down and people moving to cash, it's a bit tougher with smaller levels of FNA's coming in from the planners. But, I'm sure it'll pick back up soon.

It's not a bad job, you do learn quite a lot which is also useful for your personal finances / knowledge. But after 3 years, it's the small ol' strategies week in week out. Or maybe it's just my company?

Nevertheless, the training days are good to grab lots of freebies!! But yeah, quite a cushy desk job with nice pay.

 

[nioka]

Thanks for the feedback from the perspective of a company exec/owner. I don't agree with how you are reading things, but that doesn't mean you aren't right.


Yes, I agree I am in control. That's why I'm doing the study, that's why I'm applying. That's why I am trying to find different paths to reach my goal.


Do admin people get the chance to move up when they get quals, or are they always viewed within that company as an admin person, who has to clean everyones dishes and coffee cups at the end of the day?

Good. Now you are getting somewhere. You must be prepared to stick it out through the boring times.
Everyone can make the chance of moving up. It is your choice but it must be earned and it is not instant.
Just to prove my credentials. In 1957 I was almost broke and had lost a job through a company failure where I was factory manager in charge of over 40 people. I chose a fairly big company with diverse interests and asked for a job. Anything at all.I never even discussed a wage. I got a clerical job as a cost clerk. Through various stages after 6 years and including 4 years of study part time, I ended up a division manager in charge of 640 people with only the managing director and a board to account to.
I've hired and fired a lot of people and my theory is nobody gets carried upstairs. Those that run ahead of the rest are the winners.
In saying that though there is another factor. Some of the happiest and most contented people are not necessarily at the top or earning the most.

 

[Smurf1976]

Family business is an eye-opener. It's fly by the seat of your pants, make it up as you go, esp. in Building. And if it isn't exactly what the boss wants (dad!) it's wrong - even if it something that has multiple ways of being done, or if the apprentices are being taught a new method a TAFE - wrong!
Fellow staff (not family) also find it difficult when they are prevented from using their own skills and ideas - because they don't match my fathers. Are YOUR BOSSES ALWAYS absolutely 100% correct? No, no-one is.
I try to be proactive and it fails - he used a quote he had done in 2005 for a job now (!!!!!) despite the fact I spent a day getting updated estimates. Why? Don't know - but I know he wouldn't let me speak with the client.

Your dad and me would clash big time. I'd bet morale, productivity and/or safety isn't too good as a result of that approach.

Smurf's rule No.1 - If I can't genuinely convince someone, as opposed to directing them, then either I'm wrong or I'm in the wrong job. Either way I'm wrong.

 

[Mofra]

Insan3,

I am probably in the same boat as you, or at least have leapt from the boat onto a welcoming-looking precipice.

I had a redundancy recently offered (took it for the $$$) and am changing industries and taken a backward step in salary to become some form of para-planner; fortunately living in a big city (Melb) I can be a little choosy, and having dealt with FPs & Aggregators prior have found someone who will train me & provide a higher than average salary for a junior para-planner as I was able to demonstrate a range of additional qualities I can bring to the business.

May sound silly, but perhaps a simple little exercise might help you sell yourself to prospective employers:
a. Think about what the employer wants
b. List all of your qualities that meet and more importantly exceed what is required
c. Pitch yourself on the qualities that exceed requirements
d. Ensure you will have some succession plan in place to determine how your role will be filled when you move onwards & upwards

I sense the last point is where you may be a little stuck - no succession plan from the admin type role. Perhaps another chat you your prospective employer is in order to guage some sort of timeframe until you would move to a para-planner type role.

 

[Julia]

Insan3

It sounds to me as though you are pretty bright and capable, but easily bored and intrinsically restless. Sometimes you just have to grit your teeth and stick at something for a while, say at least until you are properly qualified.

Re working for your father: regardless of the current job offer, I'd be quitting the family firm. Rarely works. And your father sounds like my idea of a nightmare boss, stamping out any suggestion of initiative.

Given your previous position and experience, I don't think it's unreasonable that you are less than enthusiastic about kitchen duties. It's one thing to jump in and do almost anything in an emergency or simply to help out someone who is in difficulty, but quite another to essentially brand yourself (as you are fearing) as being fit for just a clerical role.

If you accept the notion of yourself as only being worthy of a support role (and no offence intended to anyone who is happy in such a role), then others will quickly label you as such in perpetuity.

Keep us posted on what you decide to do.
Good luck.

 

[billie]

I used to work in admin roles but from my very first position at the age of 17 I absolutely refused to "do the dishes". One employer actually asked me to clean the bathroom at one stage and I was sourcing cleaners 10 minutes later. Don't do it - maybe not everyone feels this way but it sounds like you'd feel the same way I would - it's degrading. And it's not impossible to move around when you put your mind to it. I almost always went for jobs that were "too good for my level of qualification" and almost always was successful - even moving from an assistant to a management role. I eventually managed to move out of office work altogether to have a typical male job (I'm female) where I'm earning more money than I could ever imagine in any admin role. So don't lose hope and don't sell yourself short. Just keep looking - the last thing you want to do is take on a job you're not happy in just to see that dream job advertised soon after.
Good Luck!