Is Medicare finished?

insider · 5 June 2009

Perhaps a solution to Medicare overuse is rewarding tax payers who don't need the Medicare system in a financial year get some kind of reward... Like free tickets to Cirque du Soleil

I'll tell you where you can find a large amount of cash... At Centre Link... There are many undeserving people queuing up getting hand outs...

disarray · 5 June 2009

insider said:
Get a heart mate... Everybody has a right to Healthcare

and once again personal responsibility goes out the window. why achieve when you can coast? why work when you can get the dole? why be healthy when medicine is free?

why fking bother at all? someone else will carry you.

insider · 5 June 2009

disarray said:
and once again personal responsibility goes out the window. why achieve when you can coast? why work when you can get the dole? why be healthy when medicine is free?

why fking bother at all? someone else will carry you.

I suppose it's my fault I get run over by a reckless driver who speeds off, or I get asthma back after 10 years because arsonists lit some of the worst bushfires ever seen in Australian History... Thinking like you is what's wrong with the world... It's borderline sociopath

insider · 5 June 2009

insider said:
I suppose it's my fault I get run over by a reckless driver who speeds off, or I get asthma back after 10 years because arsonists lit some of the worst bushfires ever seen in Australian History... Thinking like you is what's wrong with the world... It's borderline sociopath

Actually 17 years... Goes to show you might not be looking for trouble, but trouble finds you...

Mr J · 5 June 2009

insider said:
I suppose it's my fault I get run over by a reckless driver who speeds off, or I get asthma back after 10 years because arsonists lit some of the worst bushfires ever seen in Australian History... Thinking like you is what's wrong with the world... It's borderline sociopath

No, it's about many people taking responsibility for themselves. There's nothing wrong with helping those who are in need, but we've gone far beyond that, helping those who are lazy or scamming the system.

tasmart · 5 June 2009

PX3T said:
I can't understand why the system isn't working. Surely it would be simple to cut out the blatant rorts (ie Doctors overcharging for work not performed, hundreds of patients each week etc.) and cut back the payments on things like IVF, which is monstrously expensive. Once we lose Medicare we'll never get anything like it back again. There must be millions of people out there popping pills that are costing the public a fortune and not really doing much for the patient. I personally know of dozens of people who go to a doctor, insist on penicillin at the slightest sign of a cold, and to shut them up and send them away the Doc prescribes the pills even though they will most likely do nothing for the cough/cold.

Only for the fact that it would be hideously unpopular in the electorate, Governments would have abolished Medicare years ago. We need to let them know that we still want it, even if things have to change.

It is a complex system made more complex by government - especially with the division of responsibilities between State & Federal.

It is important to understand where the money goes before launching into quick fix ideas. The latest available Health expenditure figures are from 2006/08 (http://www.aihw.gov.au/expenditure/health.cfm)

Health expenditure summary
General
Spending on health represents a significant component of Australia's economy. Latest Institute figures show total health expenditure to be $94.0 billion in 2006-07, which is 9.0% of Gross Domestic Product (GDP).

Australia spends a similar proportion of its GDP on health as Italy, New Zealand and Norway. It spends more than United Kingdom and Japan, but considerably less than the United States.

In 2006-07, expenditure on hospitals was $34,065 million (39.0% of total recurrent health expenditure), made up of $26,964 million on public hospital services and $7,101 million on private hospitals.

Expenditure on medical services totalled $16,701 million (19.1%), medications $11,957 million (13.7%) and dental services $5,737 million (6.6%). A further $3,276 million (3.8%) was spent on other health practitioner services, such as physiotherapy, chiropractic and podiatry.

States and territories
The largest single area of health expenditure by state and territory governments is public hospitals services. In 2006-07, state and territory governments spent $14,334 million or 67.8% of their total recurrent health expenditure on public hospital services. In addition, a large part of these governments' $2,177 million capital expenditure and $1,337 million capital consumption related to public hospital services.

So if we closed the public hospitals we would have heaps more money to spend on politicians and their spin doctors

insider · 6 June 2009

Mr J said:
No, it's about many people taking responsibility for themselves. There's nothing wrong with helping those who are in need, but we've gone far beyond that, helping those who are lazy or scamming the system.

That is fine by me but I was addressing the simple fact that some people selfishly believe that people who take their health for granted and not exercise or eat right is a burden on the health system so should be denied treatment. That's crazy... People who don't exercise and get healthy etc. would naturally suffer in many areas of life anyway... If that's a choice they want to make so be it... They will be far less successful in life... It's typical of the Australian Government to continuously "Pass the Buck" If they start denying treatment to some they will eventually deny it to everyone with exception for money...

We need radical new laws to help keep our health system intact. If Obesity is a problem tackle the source not the Healthcare system. Put limitations on food fat contents... A QTR Pounder at McDonalds is 75% fat... Seriously why isn't this outlawed? Cereal off the shelf is mostly CarboHydrates. Limit the allowable quantity of sugar in a packet.

I've seen people go from overweight to normal weight in a few months just because they stopped eating French fries. Often the problem is the solution we just don't know what to do with it. But Like I said The Aussie Government passes the buck once again to existing work structures and is really in favor of industry and corporations, isolating Minority groups. I really don't know why we have a Prime Minister... He doesn't represent me that's for sure...

insider · 6 June 2009

PX3T said:
I can't understand why the system isn't working. Surely it would be simple to cut out the blatant rorts (ie Doctors overcharging for work not performed, hundreds of patients each week etc.) and cut back the payments on things like IVF, which is monstrously expensive. Once we lose Medicare we'll never get anything like it back again. There must be millions of people out there popping pills that are costing the public a fortune and not really doing much for the patient. I personally know of dozens of people who go to a doctor, insist on penicillin at the slightest sign of a cold, and to shut them up and send them away the Doc prescribes the pills even though they will most likely do nothing for the cough/cold.

Only for the fact that it would be hideously unpopular in the electorate, Governments would have abolished Medicare years ago. We need to let them know that we still want it, even if things have to change.

Absolutely... We also need to change other things that taxpayers pay for without necessity... People who take sickies and require a doctors certificate for the employer... Get rid of it... The employee might be entitled to 2 weeks sick leave a year let them use it as they wish...

Mr J · 6 June 2009

We need radical new laws to help keep our health system intact. If Obesity is a problem tackle the source not the Healthcare system. Put limitations on food fat contents... A QTR Pounder at McDonalds is 75% fat... Seriously why isn't this outlawed? Cereal off the shelf is mostly CarboHydrates. Limit the allowable quantity of sugar in a packet.

We're addicted to food. Macca's isn't the problem, it's the lack of discipline or care by the public. Excessive is excessive, whether it's lean red meat or a fat Big Mac. People know the danger, and I don't think as a society we should constantly be trying to protect people from themselves. I also don't think we should have to foot the bill for their mistakes.

Carbs aren't bad for you, neither is fat, if they're the right types and in moderation.

disarray · 6 June 2009

insider said:
I suppose it's my fault I get run over by a reckless driver who speeds off, or I get asthma back after 10 years because arsonists lit some of the worst bushfires ever seen in Australian History

i don't see anyone saying deny treatment to those in need fatasses by choice aren't needy in my book.

insider said:
Thinking like you is what's wrong with the world... It's borderline sociopath

back at ya

insider said:
That is fine by me but I was addressing the simple fact that some people selfishly believe that people who take their health for granted and not exercise or eat right is a burden on the health system so should be denied treatment. That's crazy... People who don't exercise and get healthy etc. would naturally suffer in many areas of life anyway... If that's a choice they want to make so be it... They will be far less successful in life...

once again, lets not point the finger at the individual, because everyone is a beautiful unique snowflake with a valid excuse, instead we'll blame the fast food companies, the government, peer pressure, the media blah blah. everyone else with self-respect who looks in the mirror and sees they're overweight and thinks "hmm thats not attractive or healthy, i think i'll eat less ****, drink less booze and exercise more" should pay extra to carry the weak because darwin was wrong all along.

fat people should be kicked up the ass and told straight, "you're a fat pathetic blob, stop jamming those chips down your disgusting maw and go for a run". kick the long term unemployed up the ass while you're at it. but no, that's not on because everyone is special.

insider said:
If that's a choice they want to make so be it... They will be far less successful in life

except for the fact the "successful" people have to pay to enable them to be useless.

insider said:
If Obesity is a problem tackle the source not the Healthcare system. Put limitations on food fat contents... A QTR Pounder at McDonalds is 75% fat... Seriously why isn't this outlawed? Cereal off the shelf is mostly CarboHydrates. Limit the allowable quantity of sugar in a packet.

because once again it's not the job of government or society or the health department or the corporations to say "don't be fat!". we live in a liberal western democracy where individual rights are paramount yet when the same individual has to own up to a responsibility not to be a fat, uneducated, lazy, drug addled, pathetic drain on the rest of society, all of a sudden it becomes "oh its everyone elses fault, the individual needs to be sheltered from the evil ronald mcdonald". get over it.

insider said:
I've seen people go from overweight to normal weight in a few months just because they stopped eating French fries.

and why did they stop eating french fries? personal choice and responsibility couldn't possibly have anything to do with it could it? no, its all about the french fries making a conscious decision to stay away.

insider said:
The employee might be entitled to 2 weeks sick leave a year let them use it as they wish... I really don't know why we have a Prime Minister... He doesn't represent me that's for sure...

pic related (and i'm hammering someones photobucket account because file uploads aren't working for some reason so the pic may disappear once their bandwidth cap is killed)

c-unit · 6 June 2009

insider said:
That is fine by me but I was addressing the simple fact that some people selfishly believe that people who take their health for granted and not exercise or eat right is a burden on the health system so should be denied treatment. That's crazy... People who don't exercise and get healthy etc. would naturally suffer in many areas of life anyway... If that's a choice they want to make so be it... They will be far less successful in life... It's typical of the Australian Government to continuously "Pass the Buck" If they start denying treatment to some they will eventually deny it to everyone with exception for money...

We need radical new laws to help keep our health system intact. If Obesity is a problem tackle the source not the Healthcare system. Put limitations on food fat contents... A QTR Pounder at McDonalds is 75% fat... Seriously why isn't this outlawed? Cereal off the shelf is mostly CarboHydrates. Limit the allowable quantity of sugar in a packet.

I've seen people go from overweight to normal weight in a few months just because they stopped eating French fries. Often the problem is the solution we just don't know what to do with it. But Like I said The Aussie Government passes the buck once again to existing work structures and is really in favor of industry and corporations, isolating Minority groups. I really don't know why we have a Prime Minister... He doesn't represent me that's for sure...

So you are saying the solution is to limit people's choices? We could become "the sheltered nation"

Nothing wrong with people eating fatty quarter pounders. I eat them occasionally, and love them, but I also spend 10-12 hours per week in the gym. People should have the choice to eat like crap/chain smoke/take drugs, whatever. But they also need to face the consequences of their own actions. If some dude weighs 200kg because all he eats is Macca's, has a heart attack, then he should pay his own medical expenses, not leech of the taxpayer.

Becoming a sheltered nation, as you seem to be suggesting, is the fastest way to becoming a nation of bludgers with no drive to get the best from themselves. Why strive for more when you can free-ride?

insider · 6 June 2009

c-unit said:
Becoming a sheltered nation, as you seem to be suggesting, is the fastest way to becoming a nation of bludgers with no drive to get the best from themselves. Why strive for more when you can free-ride?

I think telling Maccas, KFC and Hungry Jacks to up the quality of their food is hardly sheltering and limiting choices... Maybe I'd be A customer of theirs because right now but I don't see anything worth my while... Their food doesn't really classify as food but more like confectionery... If this is what is affordable and available to people then that's what they will end up eating... The choice should be made before hand... Isn't prevention better than the cure?

Oh that's right the Medical Industry is exactly that... An industry there to make money... That's why they will never cure anything major for years to come... They make money on the Medicine... That's what you're about yeah... Money!!!

Imagine a guy who has cancer, imagine a healthy one, always looking after himself but a bit unlucky. Unfortunately he went through some tough times and doesn't have cash to pay for chemotherapy or even the doctor's visit... 1 year later he dies... Just because the only way to save money on health care was to deny treatment for people who needed it... Now imagine that was you... Would you be happy? I don't think so...

A survey showed that overweight people make $5,000 a year more than slim people... So on average they pay more in taxes... Do you classify them as bludgers now? Hell it might be their work that's killing them

insider · 6 June 2009

c-unit said:
So you are saying the solution is to limit people's choices? We could become "the sheltered nation"

We already are a sheltered nation

insider · 6 June 2009

I will lay out my points of view clearly for you all and don't twist words. Its getting close to 4 in the morning...

-The government is pro industry and favors corporations (Like Health Inusrance). The first step is isolating minorities like in this case we are arguing "sick fat people" Which isn't even the bulk of it. If they denied them treatment then who will be next? Healthy people who use the system occasionally and then the whole system is dead... This was Ronald Reagans grand plan... Does the US wonders They don't have a universal healthcare system. Cuba has a healthcare system better than our own...

-It is all about the greater good. (if you don't agree with this than go to hell)

-Weight is dependent on three factors; Diet, excercise and Genetics. Denying "FAT" people treatment is discriminatory. Just because they are classified overweight doesn't make them unhealthy. What about under weight people? Do my body builder mates classify as overweight because they have big muscles which weigh them down. Read up on Ecto-morphs, Mesa-morphs and Endo-morphs

-There cannot be an accurate enough selection process for denying people treatment without it being wrongfully discriminatory.

-There is always work in Health care and new jobs to be made.

I'll stop it here, I need sleep.

You guys should watch a DVD called 'Sicko' I think that will help you guys see what I'm talking about. And like I said My brother got bashed in the US and got 6 stitches. $10,500 US. 6 Stitches is not worth that much. So how does not providing universal health care to people make things cheaper for you in case things happen? Trouble has its way of finding you.

insider · 6 June 2009

disarray said:
i don't see anyone saying deny treatment to those in need fatasses by choice aren't needy in my book.

Then you're discriminating...

insider · 6 June 2009

Dissaray you are clearly the perfect human being... You have no flaws and we should all apologize to you... No sorry you're just being arrogant ... We are going to go around and around and around and around and around in circles. If moderating the food industry slighty (I suggest you get a nutritionists opinion on this) to provide better food is a bad idea then why don't we call off the ban from smoking in public venues... Most of the food you buy nowadays is too refined to be classified as food... It's just edible...

By the way it was more like a single packet of french fries a week that made the difference... And that's just fries... It may have been social pressure they may of influenced the decision in the first place. But Imagine whole meals changed... The decision already made... All this to no further cost to the tax payer... Promoting savings... That means more money in your pocket... That's what you like yeah... MOOOONNNNEEEEYYYY!!!! Imagine hot babes everywhere... Hey this is exciting... any way I gotta work in 3 hours

xyzedarteerf · 6 June 2009

i don't want to live in country where the first thing you get asked on the emergency door is "do you have health insurance" or Pay first or die system which some countries have.

Tink · 6 June 2009

well said Insider

I wouldnt like to see our system change to a US Style.. Keep Medicare

prawn_86 · 6 June 2009

Green08 said:
I have a client, a thalidomide child no legs, she can not afford the medication, she is 70 years old and actually WORKS for $1.80 hr (government min award for her category) Absolute robbery. I would give her free medication any day over some idiot regardless of offence.

People die everyday for committing NO offence.

Got a mate who's an inmate?.

Well if your going down that route than why should your client have more access to medicines? If your going to revert to 'nature' without 'human' rights, then survival of the fittest would rule, and your client wouldnt stand much of a chance. Human 'fittest' can be about brains, so lets not revert to animals and have it all about strength again.

Or if people die every day regardless of offense or no offense lets just stop making medicine and then we wouldnt have to wory about it, as everyone is going to die eventually.

And yes, i had a mate inside. He made one stupid decision, spent 18 months in jail, and now has to spend the rest of his life living with the fact that that one bad decision killed his best friend. Im not condoning it, im just saying that there are plenty of people within the prison system that are not 'hardened criminals' they are just repaying their debt to society

Green08 · 7 June 2009

prawn_86 said:
Well if your going down that route than why should your client have more access to medicines? If your going to revert to 'nature' without 'human' rights, then survival of the fittest would rule, and your client wouldnt stand much of a chance. Human 'fittest' can be about brains, so lets not revert to animals and have it all about strength again.

Or if people die every day regardless of offense or no offense lets just stop making medicine and then we wouldnt have to wory about it, as everyone is going to die eventually.

Survival of the fittest. Take all medical assistance out of the prison system for all inmates and they'll wipe each other out in a few months.

Put Emergency Wards in all Private Hospitals for Private Patients only who pay in the first place. I've had Private cover for 25 years on my family, yes it is expensive @$480 a month after the 30% reduction. and Yes I would pay it even if they took the 30% away.

The load on the system would be reduced, doctors, nurses and staff would be paided their worth, higher self esteem and better care.

People born with disabilites are behind the 8th ball to start. Some require medication, they have check ups and occassionally admitted to hospital. Their ability for skills is quite high, most love to work and study. They want to contribute to society.

Prisoners 'earn' a higher wage / hr than the disabled. Don't think it is any harder - But the disabled have to pay for their medication out of their pocket and wait for doctors. Prisoners don't

Come and tell my client what you think of her - a drain on the system. however, if that is inconvenent I'll show her your response on my laptop.

Your mate or any inmate I would tell them to their face, take the abuse but I will not wavier on it. Make a stupid choice - live with the consequences. The prison system is a complete drain of resources - keep them happy then unleash them into society - healthy and ready to reoffend.

Survival of the fittest with disabled. Yes some would perish however, more would survive and thrive than you could imagine.

Is Medicare finished?

Mod: Call me Dendrobranchiata

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