Importing Migrant Workers

MrBurns · 30 May 2012

Forget Gina Reinhart thats small change.

I just had to call Telstra today and had to endure endless bulldust before I was put through to someone in who knows where who could hardly speak or understand English.

How many Australians have missed out on jobs because this Govt part owned entity chooses to outsource overseas ? It's a bloody disgrace.
Not only costs Australian jobs but the service is appalling.

While I'm at it there used to be conductors on trains and trams, and staff on stations.

Not any more since our Govts sold these assets off.

Creating jobs for working families ???.............utter rubbish

jank · 30 May 2012

Starcraftmazter said:
When I last went to a clinic (quite a while ago), I didn't yet have private insurance. Also the fact that private clinics are very scare, and I fail to see why I have to travel to go to a clinic..

Ah pity you! You have to TRAVEL to a clinic! Surely that is the Australian governments fault too! I hearby petition that we should build a private clinic in SCM's back lawn!

Starcraftmazter said:
Right now, when I am paying taxes, I am not asking the federal government to give me any services, nor will I ask in the future. Makes sense?

I am sure those Police officers, paramedics, and fire brigades beg to differ! Oh local government I suppose they are paid on thin air!

Starcraftmazter said:
What exactly do you mean a lifetime of credit? Their tax money was SPENT it was SPENT ALREADY, the government DOES NOT PUT ASIDE TAX REVENUES FOR FUTURE SPENDING ON WELFARE. What is so hard about this to understand?..

You clearly have no concept of what taxation is. I am speechless. May I suggest you read the Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith.

Starcraftmazter said:
But they have lower taxes as well. Political parties never change anything, all Australian mainstream parties are absolute rubbish. Nothing but a bunch of corrupt puppets.

So, you think giving out about it endlessly on an Internet fourm is the best way to spend your energy and time. Swiss tax rates are alot higher than you think, as I said go there if you dont believe me.

Starcraftmazter said:
I repeat, I do not know nor care who she is.?..

Fair enough but you are making an absolute tool of your self. Its like a communist who doesnt know who Marx is. You are making it up as you go along, there is a wealth of knowledge out there might be worthwhile to check some of it out as you may find something new. You must be awfully insecure if you do not look for new knowledge. Are you afraid that you might be wrong?

Starcraftmazter said:
I didn't ask for your flawed and entitled opinions about my ideology.?..

What ideology, because its sure hell not what you think it is, its whatever I believe in this second or moment. Then it changes tomorrow, or in 3 minutes. You believe in nothing but hate.

Starcraftmazter said:
You seem completely oblivious to the existence of state and local governments. .?..

But how are they funded when you yourself said there should be no taxes AT ALL...?? Rates are a tax too numpty!

Starcraftmazter said:
Is everyone Gina? No.

Everyone is a drain on Society so ya. Been watching the Matrix lately?

Starcraftmazter said:
If you read my previous posts carefully, I clearly said IF there is any tax, THEN it should be used to provide services for people whom pay it most - not those who do not pay tax. Why do I have to remind you of the discussion? If you are incapable of remembering what is happening in a debate, then don't bother.

That is a grossly inefficent way of managing taxation, nevermind it would destory an economy.

Starcraftmazter said:
NZ had a housing bubble burst, as we get ours, our economy will tank as well.

Em, not really. It declined back in the GFC by 10%. What is wrong with NZ's economy is the lack of openess especially in the labour market and FDI. Nothing to do with housing.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/education/news/article.cfm?c_id=35&objectid=10806089
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/5679886/Brain-drain-claims-third-of-New-Zealands-PhDs
http://www.3news.co.nz/Brain-drain-...rowth/tabid/423/articleID/254180/Default.aspx

Starcraftmazter said:
I'm not advocating anything, I'm citing them as an example of low taxed countries who are rich - to disprove your idiotic argument that only high-taxing countries can be rich. Stop putting words into my mouth to support your stupid, worthless arguments.

I never ever said only high taxed countries can be rich, where did I say those words exactly!Liying now to prove a point?

Starcraftmazter said:
I am not disputing it, and I'm not agreeing with it. Until you show me her tax return, as far as I am concerned, she's paid no tax..

Wow, when i thought you could not get any more illogical you say that.

Starcraftmazter said:
Correct. Nobody is entitled to anything.
.

Says the guy who used bulk billing!

moXJO · 30 May 2012

I gotta say I like SCM he always gets a rise out of posters (or me) But can we start an 'at war with SCM' thread or something as topics get way off track.

Calliope · 30 May 2012

moXJO said:
I gotta say I like SCM he always gets a rise out of posters (or me) But can we start an 'at war with SCM' thread or something as topics get way off track.

Yeah. This war is going nowhere, and casualties are occurring. I was reprimanded this morning by Joe for being "insulting" to SCM. I warn other posters not to let SCM provoke you.

Starcraftmazter · 30 May 2012

Calliope said:
Yeah. This war is going nowhere, and casualties are occurring. I was reprimanded this morning by Joe for being "insulting" to SCM. I warn other posters not to let SCM provoke you.

Maybe you should simply behave and not insult others? Too much too ask of some?

jank said:
Ah pity you! You have to TRAVEL to a clinic! Surely that is the Australian governments fault too! I hearby petition that we should build a private clinic in SCM's back lawn!

Given that your "arguments" have degenerated into various insults and other meaningless nonsense, I'm not continuing this.

MrBurns said:
I just had to call Telstra today and had to endure endless bulldust before I was put through to someone in who knows where who could hardly speak or understand English.

Well why do you use Telstra? Why? There is plenty of competition. I for one would like to see more people put their money where their mouth is.

The free market is all powerful, if people stop using these scumbag companies which offshore jobs, then they will go bankrupt.

Internode is a great example of an Australian ISP which offers the highest quality services, and only employers Australians.

rumpole · 30 May 2012

MrBurns said:
Forget Gina Reinhart thats small change.

I just had to call Telstra today and had to endure endless bulldust before I was put through to someone in who knows where who could hardly speak or understand English.

How many Australians have missed out on jobs because this Govt part owned entity chooses to outsource overseas ? It's a bloody disgrace.
Not only costs Australian jobs but the service is appalling.

While I'm at it there used to be conductors on trains and trams, and staff on stations.

Not any more since our Govts sold these assets off.

Creating jobs for working families ???.............utter rubbish

Good points Mr Burns. I had a similar experience with Telstra and had to talk to someone in the Phillippines for about an hour to no avail.

You seem to be advocating re-nationalisation of Telstra and other public services so that greedy capitalists don't sell off government assets

Correct ?

MrBurns · 30 May 2012

rumpole said:
Good points Mr Burns. I had a similar experience with Telstra and had to talk to someone in the Phillippines for about an hour to no avail.

You seem to be advocating re-nationalisation of Telstra and other public services so that greedy capitalists don't sell off government assets

Correct ?

I dont think essential services should be sold off, electricity, gas, trains, all of these things should be run by Govt to ensure they just arent there to make profit......like they are now. Service declines and jobs are lost. Thats progess ???

Telstra is Govt hypocracy personified.

rumpole · 30 May 2012

MrBurns said:
I dont think essential services should be sold off, electricity, gas, trains, all of these things should be run by Govt to ensure they just arent there to make profit......like they are now. Service declines and jobs are lost. Thats progess ???

Agreed.

Julia · 30 May 2012

Klogg said:
No, it's boss code for we don't want to pay $250k a year to get the qualified people here, because the majority of people on the eastern side of the country are too lazy to re-locate.

As far as I'm concerned, she's just trying to get a job done for the lowest amount possible. It's not her concern, nor her responsibility, to care for the rest of the country.

So long as she pays her taxes and works within government guidelines, then she's doing her part.

Agree. She is not running a welfare agency.

moXJO said:
I gotta say I like SCM he always gets a rise out of posters (or me) But can we start an 'at war with SCM' thread or something as topics get way off track.

Meanwhile, all of us who respond to him are providing him with exactly what he wants: a platform to continue espousing his unpleasant and asocial views.
It may be entertaining, but it's also unhealthy imo to allow him to continue propagating his ignorant ideas.
These may be genuinely held but are more likely the rantings of the true troll.

Calliope said:
Yeah. This war is going nowhere, and casualties are occurring. I was reprimanded this morning by Joe for being "insulting" to SCM. I warn other posters not to let SCM provoke you.

Goodness. SCM is more than 'insulting' to many members.

Glen48 · 30 May 2012

This is how the IMF work lend some country money and tell them to upgrade their essential service then they get them to privatize so the buyer gets taxpayer funded enterprise and then the bills go up and the service down.
Of course a few pollie's get a spin off.

Calliope · 30 May 2012

Starcraftmazter said:
Maybe you should simply behave and not insult others? Too much too ask of some?

You certainly are confused!

Given that your "arguments" have degenerated into various insults and other meaningless nonsense, I'm not continuing this

That's good news Promise?

moXJO · 30 May 2012

Julia said:
Meanwhile, all of us who respond to him are providing him with exactly what he wants: a platform to continue espousing his unpleasant and asocial views.
It may be entertaining, but it's also unhealthy imo to allow him to continue propagating his ignorant ideas.
These may be genuinely held but are more likely the rantings of the true troll.

Goodness. SCM is more than 'insulting' to many members.

He mainly puts his view across without insulting members and he is entitled to his opinion. It's only when you have a bone to pick that it leads to pages and pages of text. I don't think the majority adds anything to the thread when it gets like that. Still he has a right to his beliefs whether I agree with them or not. His personality traits are pretty normal for the majority of engineers I have met as well:

jank · 30 May 2012

Calliope said:
You certainly are confused!

That's good news Promise?

This has been a very good investment for me, not sure about you guys.

Intrinsic Value · 30 May 2012

I certainly think this is an attempt to get workers on the cheap and of course a very compliant workforce due to the inherent obligations for 457 visa holders.

However I also think it may be a trend for the future. In a global market, capital is very mobile in so far as companies will relocate where they get cheaper labour and cheaper infrastructure costs.

Similarly, in a global market labour is also becoming more mobile. Workers will move to where they get the best deals eg higher wages, less taxes etc. Many countries import cheap overseas labour to support and boost their economies.

Many skilled Australians like myself and others have worked for long periods in Asia and Middle East because we are offered much bigger salary packages and low or no tax regimes. It is no surprise that industry in Australia would like to get a hold of overseas labour be it skilled or unskilled if they think it is going to be cheaper or better.

Given there are billions of workers out there in the global market Australia's relatively protected labour market may in the future become much more open to overseas workers with of course resulting greater competition for fewer jobs and a further decline in real wages except perhaps for those in highly skilled niche industries.

If history is any guide dont expect the unions or governments to do much to protect you!

breaker · 30 May 2012

Telstra is the only provider in the bush ,the service is atrocious just like SCM's comments,I believe we should pass the hat around and send him to Singapore or Clermont Qld Where he could be shown some reasoning.

Oh hear comes my smack

ColB · 30 May 2012

Re: SO WE CANT FILL 1700 JOBS?

tigerboi said:
fail to see? how long do you think it takes to learn to be a roadtrain driver? just as long as it takes to train a doctor.

how many OVERSEAS trained roadtrain drivers do you reckon we import?

why shouldnt we get first choice of jobs in our own country.

Couldn't agree more TB that it would be preferable that Australians get first chance at any of these jobs BUT I can't seriously believe that a truck driver could even go close to comparing their skill set and responsibility with that of a doctor.

Until we see 5 year university courses and another couple of years of supervised on the job training before they allow a truck driver to operate by himself then some of us might disagree with your overrated perception of a roadtrain drivers skillset.

Julia · 30 May 2012

Starcraftmazter said:
To some people like you, words such as freedom and liberty are meaningless.

Starcraftmazter said:
I hope she (and Clive Palmer) die of a heart attack real soon. Given how fat they are, they hopefully don't have much longer to live.

moXJO said:
He mainly puts his view across without insulting members and he is entitled to his opinion. It's only when you have a bone to pick that it leads to pages and pages of text. I don't think the majority adds anything to the thread when it gets like that. Still he has a right to his beliefs whether I agree with them or not. His personality traits are pretty normal for the majority of engineers I have met as well:

Perhaps I was conflating personal insults with unpleasant remarks about non-members, as above.
And maybe I'm out of step with what's acceptable commentary, but I find the suggestion that we should not e.g. look after the aged who have paid their share of taxes pretty offensive.

Likewise the suggestion that his ideal society rejects any notion of caring for people who are unable to care for themselves.

And overlying all of it, the astonishing arrogance of someone in his first job, who may not even have been out of the country (I'm happy to be corrected if this is not the case), opining on how poorly Australia compares with much of the rest of the world, strikes me as simply ignorant. This country is not perfect but we enjoy freedoms, plus health and social benefits that much of the rest of the world must envy.

Starcraftmazter · 30 May 2012

Julia said:
And maybe I'm out of step with what's acceptable commentary, but I find the suggestion that we should not e.g. look after the aged who have paid their share of taxes pretty offensive.

The problem is you are looking at it from an emotional personal perspective (irrelevant) and I look at it purely from an economic perspective (the world functions on economics...). It is impossible to fund reirees with Australia's increasing aged population. Even with ABS's best estimates in terms of very very high immigration (which doesn't solve the problem in either case, just makes it bigger for future generations) - our dependency ratio will still head into very bad territory.

It's not a matter of whether we should or should not take care of aged people - go ahead and start a charity and collect donations if you want that, but we cannot go on taxing the product members of the economy to pay for a massive retired population.

Julia said:
Likewise the suggestion that his ideal society rejects any notion of caring for people who are unable to care for themselves.

That's completely false; all I want is that such care be given voluntarily instead of money be stolen from people and for it to be arbitrarily as well as inefficiently determined whom to best give it to.

Julia said:
This country is not perfect but we enjoy freedoms, plus health and social benefits that much of the rest of the world must envy.

Your flaw is your self-centred opinion that everyone has identical opinions to yourself about what makes a country great, and that everyone who doesn't agree with you must be "wrong" or "bad" in some way. People like you are why the world is best ran on libertarian ideologies - so that everyone can best decide for themselves how to best spend their surplus income on which social endeavours - and not have arbitrary, inefficient and ineffective wastes of money shoved down their throat by arrogant people who think they know better than everyone else.

And for the last time, it is irrelevant if you've paid taxed all your life - that tax money has been SPENT, all the services that you have received throughout your life have already been funded with that money, and the government does not put your tax money aside to fund your retirement - it has to come out of the pockets of the most productive members of society, who would otherwise use it to invest in things like infrastructure, research and entrepreneurship.

That is why all aged pensions are the biggest malinvestment in the economy (after military spending). At least with education and healthcare you are investing in future and current workers - but with retired people, there is no economic benefit to support them - no economic benefit at all. There is no justification for the government to do anything which does not have a direct economic benefit to the country.

DB008 · 30 May 2012

Calliope said:
Yeah. This war is going nowhere, and casualties are occurring. I was reprimanded this morning by Joe for being "insulting" to SCM. I warn other posters not to let SCM provoke you.

+1
I agree

However....

Muschu · 30 May 2012

Starcraftmazter said:
I'm 22, old is old enough to care about old people.

Thx for a precise response. I'm 66. At your age I had just finished compulsory National Service for 2 years.

A lot has happened since then and I have learned a good deal, made many errors / adjustments and hope to learn a great deal more.

What I hope I have never been is "absolute" with my views.

I sincerely wish you well.

Rick

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