I'm a hypocrite

I've got a son and a daughter aged 15 and 19 respectively.

My son is a bad,bad boy - has been that way for a few years now. I can't explain it and I won't go into specifics about the bad things he's done, but let's just say he's naughty.

He's been diagnosed as being highly intelligent - an IQ high enough to get into MENSA, but has the maturity of an eight year old - a recipe for trouble.

This year we sent him to a special private type school that only accept a few boys aged between 13 and 18 years of age. It's run by an 80yo judo instructor, who has a team of tough boot camp like teachers. The school focuses purely on Maths, English and lots of physical education. The idea is the naughty boys do this for a couple of years and go back to regular school after a year or two. 60 minutes have been filming the school and some naughty triplets, which I understand will screen on channel 9 shortly.

The school has worked wonders for Seb this year. He is so proud of his six pack and is getting into far less trouble than he has been. This week he's been on school holidays and we had another police situation.

On Saturday, he was brought home by the police for being drunk at 4:30am. The police told us he almost got hit by a taxi so they approached him when he became abusive. We asked him to apologize and he just abused them more when we quickly pulled him inside.

Furious, I just slept on it and spent the next day thinking of a punishment. We are going to Vietnam as a family for a holiday on Saturday and I decided he wasn't coming with us. My mother talked me out of that.

I've known about a large stash of alcohol he's been stealing from shops that he's been keeping as some sort of trophy so I decided that if he was going to go to come to Vietnam with us he would have to tip all of it down the sink.

Unfortunately, I was at work during the grand dumping of alcohol, but he did it. Well that is most of it.

My wife thought it was a waste to dump some of the Grey Goose and a couple of the other fine malt scotches down the drain - so we kept it.

I hate being a parent.

LifeChoices said:

I've got a son and a daughter aged 15 and 19 respectively.

My son is a bad,bad boy - has been that way for a few years now. I can't explain it and I won't go into specifics about the bad things he's done, but let's just say he's naughty.

He's been diagnosed as being highly intelligent - an IQ high enough to get into MENSA, but has the maturity of an eight year old - a recipe for trouble.

This year we sent him to a special private type school that only accept a few boys aged between 13 and 18 years of age. It's run by an 80yo judo instructor, who has a team of tough boot camp like teachers. The school focuses purely on Maths, English and lots of physical education. The idea is the naughty boys do this for a couple of years and go back to regular school after a year or two. 60 minutes have been filming the school and some naughty triplets, which I understand will screen on channel 9 shortly.

The school has worked wonders for Seb this year. He is so proud of his six pack and is getting into far less trouble than he has been. This week he's been on school holidays and we had another police situation.

On Saturday, he was brought home by the police for being drunk at 4:30am. The police told us he almost got hit by a taxi so they approached him when he became abusive. We asked him to apologize and he just abused them more when we quickly pulled him inside.

Furious, I just slept on it and spent the next day thinking of a punishment. We are going to Vietnam as a family for a holiday on Saturday and I decided he wasn't coming with us. My mother talked me out of that.

I've known about a large stash of alcohol he's been stealing from shops that he's been keeping as some sort of trophy so I decided that if he was going to go to come to Vietnam with us he would have to tip all of it down the sink.

Unfortunately, I was at work during the grand dumping of alcohol, but he did it. Well that is most of it.

My wife thought it was a waste to dump some of the Grey Goose and a couple of the other fine malt scotches down the drain - so we kept it.

I hate being a parent.

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Welcome to the parenthood. I find if you let them have a "little bit" of freedom it all changes. I also find that a basement where no one can hear you scream helps as well.

Start enjoying Parenthood my friend--- it can be one of the joys of life.

My advice is stop battling and become his best friend and confidant.
That comes from letting go of the reigns and letting him see and feel ( emotionally)
Who you are.
Respect is earned on BOTH sides of the fence and you must gain his respect as a person first and parent second.
If they can't trust you to be as human as they are you'll lose the opportunity to share in the magic of family.
Work at it it's worth every second.

Sit down and chat over a scotch---- often!

I can't wait to have kids

30 years of irresponsibilty and hedonism has been incredible but I see the joy that all my friends with kids have (which is growing steadily) and yearn for it myself.

has it occurred to you that your son may have a mental illness?

bipolar comes to mind, check out stephen frys adolescent years for an example

high iq alongside such behavioural problems are symptomatic of someone who is certainly not "like everyone else" ...

im not a psychologist, i have a mental illness myself so its just life experience talking i didnt get help, didnt even know, until my late 30s, and its better if help can be obtained earlier rather than later, as a breakdown and major depression are not good, ive had both

Really sorry to hear about your lad Lifechoices. Must be very tough to deal with this situation, and I hope you are getting some good guidance.
I am not sure I agree with your mother, I wouldnt take him on the trip, in fact I would have cancelled the entire family trip. I would state that it is the consequence of his actions, it calls for a STOP EVERYTHING it would be more important to work out the issues than go enjoy ourselves.
I hope that he has to front the school and explain what he had done and sees more than 6packs in his life.
I sense the stolen property is probably where the hypocrisy lies in your title. Keeping the alcohol is a sign you and family appreciate the goods more than his action to acquire it. In a way he may see it as condoning the theft - its OK so long as it is quality stuff. I would have made him take it back, and have the store owners deal with him, they can let him know what they think.
I trust he has some sensible desires in his life where he really wants to achieve (and get his thrills, and real healthy challenges - sounds to me like he is easily bored), and I would move hell and high water to see he and family focuses on that, and ensure acknowledgement on achieving them.
I am surprised he was brought home at 4:30am. What were you doing to not know where he was? If he was at a mates place do those parents know.
I truly hope that drugs are not involved - if that enters the situation then you got some problems coming.
I hope you are on good terms and that he respects you, but whatever, dont stop absolutely loving him. If you are not getting some good guidance - then get it. I feel you may have been tolerating this behaviour for some time - maybe for lack of really knowing what to do, or not feeling up to challenging the issues.
Us Dads dont have all the answers!
All the very best.

(I am not suggesting I know the right solution in what I have written and that you are not trying your absolute guts out, but I can feel your pain)

addison has a point re mental illness. It's important not to jump to any conclusions though which happens all too often.

I don't have children but speaking from my own experiences with mental illness it can be hard to deal with. I've been diagnosed with 'significant to severe' obsessive compulsive disorder and ADHD, the latter though i don't believe exists. I went to 5 different high schools and left school at 15 but was also in the 95 percentile IQ wise... I got into all sorts of trouble and I'm fine now as I'm sure your son will be

If your son is really is at a MENSA level of intelligence that really is very impressive and is probably only acting out because he is smart enough to question what he's told especially at school or by any authority figure, hell that's what I did!

It's easy for me though, all my mates kids are under 4 and I get to give them back at the end of the day haha

tech/a said:

Start enjoying Parenthood my friend--- it can be one of the joys of life.

My advice is stop battling and become his best friend and confidant.
That comes from letting go of the reigns and letting him see and feel ( emotionally)
Who you are.
Respect is earned on BOTH sides of the fence and you must gain his respect as a person first and parent second.
If they can't trust you to be as human as they are you'll lose the opportunity to share in the magic of family.
Work at it it's worth every second.

Sit down and chat over a scotch---- often!

Click to expand...

Good post Tech, my bolds

tech/a said:

Start enjoying Parenthood my friend--- it can be one of the joys of life.

My advice is stop battling and become his best friend and confidant.
That comes from letting go of the reigns and letting him see and feel ( emotionally)
Who you are.
Respect is earned on BOTH sides of the fence and you must gain his respect as a person first and parent second.
If they can't trust you to be as human as they are you'll lose the opportunity to share in the magic of family.
Work at it it's worth every second.

Sit down and chat over a scotch---- often!

Click to expand...

Pretty good post, but become his best friend? That goes a bit far. Boundaries. And yes all the bottles should have gone back, but nobody's perfect, certainly not me.

Logique said:

Pretty good post, but become his best friend? That goes a bit far. Boundaries. And yes all the bottles should have gone back, but nobody's perfect, certainly not me.

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Hmmm don't know that it's going to far.
Personally I don't know of a stronger bond than parent and off spring.

What constitutes a Besty

To me it's someone who can straighten out the road when it starts to curve sharply.
Smooth the same road when it's bumpy or fill the pot holes when they pop up in front.
Be the ear you need when no one hears you.
The mouth for when you don't have the words.

But beyond all un conditional love and support.

This manifests a friendship and bond which when a parent goes way beyond best friendship as we start with something no other friendship can have.
DNA.
We both have characteristics which are in built and common to one another so believe it or not we have a huge head start in the common ground stakes ------- like it or not.
Perhaps being comfortable with yourself---- who you are and where your going--- is a good place to start.

Don't under estimate the role PARENTAL LEADERSHIP plays in the development of any sibling!

Keeping the expensive scotch? Heck, what does that teach him? The scotch isn't yours to keep nor throw down the drain. Highly intelligent kids will pick up on your slightest weaknesses and flaws. You cannot change kids - they won't allow it. If you change yourself (in a good way), he will happily follow along.

Good post tech.

jbocker said:

Really sorry to hear about your lad Lifechoices. Must be very tough to deal with this situation, and I hope you are getting some good guidance.
I am not sure I agree with your mother, I wouldnt take him on the trip, in fact I would have cancelled the entire family trip. I would state that it is the consequence of his actions, it calls for a STOP EVERYTHING it would be more important to work out the issues than go enjoy ourselves.
I hope that he has to front the school and explain what he had done and sees more than 6packs in his life.
I sense the stolen property is probably where the hypocrisy lies in your title. Keeping the alcohol is a sign you and family appreciate the goods more than his action to acquire it. In a way he may see it as condoning the theft - its OK so long as it is quality stuff. I would have made him take it back, and have the store owners deal with him, they can let him know what they think.
I trust he has some sensible desires in his life where he really wants to achieve (and get his thrills, and real healthy challenges - sounds to me like he is easily bored), and I would move hell and high water to see he and family focuses on that, and ensure acknowledgement on achieving them.
I am surprised he was brought home at 4:30am. What were you doing to not know where he was? If he was at a mates place do those parents know.
I truly hope that drugs are not involved - if that enters the situation then you got some problems coming.
I hope you are on good terms and that he respects you, but whatever, dont stop absolutely loving him. If you are not getting some good guidance - then get it. I feel you may have been tolerating this behaviour for some time - maybe for lack of really knowing what to do, or not feeling up to challenging the issues.
Us Dads dont have all the answers!
All the very best.

(I am not suggesting I know the right solution in what I have written and that you are not trying your absolute guts out, but I can feel your pain)

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Great post jbocker, I wholeheartedly agree with all your statements!

If you take any advice imho it should be the above.

Bit of a rock and a hard place LC. I went off the rails for quite a bit as a younger lad, not much mum and dad could do about it at the time really. Lots of alcohol, drugs and sex - I was having a great time and didn't want to stop, even though I could see how it was effecting my parents.

In my case it boiled down to my peer group being the biggest influence in my life at the time then and my parents secondary. There wasn't much my parents could do, they just had to wait until I came out the other side. They couldn't remove me from my peer group and that would have been the only thing that may have changed my behaviour. In the end I was lucky to have examples of plenty of people who were 10-15yrs my senior that had been 'living the life' and I was smart enough to see that that was not how I wanted to end up.

In your case LC you do have an option to remove your lad from his peer group - school. And from your post it seems like it is working and that this lapse in to delinquency may be related to him running back with his old crowd on the holidays. You may just have to weather the storm for the holiday period or you may be able to plan for the family to be elsewhere in the holidays. Good Luck

People are like insects, your have a cocoon but you don't know what will happen until the cocoon opens and you find what emerges.

He is going through puberty and sadly you have to ride it out until he is about 18 and see how he develops. You can't make any firm decisions until he is older.
Most of the time you will find his behavior is heredity from some one in the family tree maybe going back a few generations.
MY kids were great until puberty and ended up like my Ex and her Father.
Me eldest est son is getting married on Saturday which is my birthday Me I am still waiting for the invite along with my Mother.

Glen48 said:

Me eldest est son is getting married on Saturday which is my birthday Me I am still waiting for the invite along with my Mother.

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That's sad.

Lifechoices, as someone else has already observed, should we understand that you're labelling yourself a hypocrite because you didn't make your son return the alcohol?
If so, I'd agree. Imo going with him to return it would have made clear to him that you condemn what he did, whereas by allowing it to stay in the house is effectively condoning his theft. Sounds as though you've figured that out.

Derty has summed up the effect of the peer group well. The pressures to be the most daring, subversive etc in a group of adolescent males can be immense.

How much are you able to talk to him about this, and about his behaviour in general?

An assessment by a psychologist or psychiatrist, or even the GP as an initial step, would probably be useful. Could be, as others have suggested, that there's some kind of medically treatable problem happening.

As far as 'being a friend' to your child is concerned, that's great if all else is equal.
But kids need boundaries and rules while they're growing and developing into adults and depend on you to set these. If it were my boy, I'd be attempting to do this before wanting to be his friend. He's the kid, you are the parent, and he needs that sense of structure in his life.

I remember a 13 year old girl I was mentoring at the local school. Nice kid, but out of control in every sense. She was allowed to spend whole weekends with her 'boyfriend' a bloke in his 30's in a town 30 kms away from home. Her mother said to me "there's nothing I can do with her".
The girl said to me "why doesn't mum care what I do?"

That kid just needed some structure in her life and the sense that her mother was the parent, rather than some vague presence in her life who didn't care what she did.

I'm not suggesting that your situation mirrors the one above necessarily, but it might be something to consider, along with what behaviour you model to the boy in the everyday course of events.

I find it difficult to go along with the suggestion that there's nothing you can do.

A holiday will do everyone good.
He is obviously not happy or at least troubled, try to look after him and do stuff together.

I am becoming a cub leader and the others tell great stories of turning troubled kids around. He is older-- but a different environment from school with other guys his age and some shared activity could make him. A yauchting club?

As far as 'being a friend' to your child is concerned, that's great if all else is equal.
But kids need boundaries and rules while they're growing and developing into adults and depend on you to set these. If it were my boy, I'd be attempting to do this before wanting to be his friend. He's the kid, you are the parent, and he needs that sense of structure in his life.

I remember a 13 year old girl I was mentoring at the local school. Nice kid, but out of control in every sense. She was allowed to spend whole weekends with her 'boyfriend' a bloke in his 30's in a town 30 kms away from home. Her mother said to me "there's nothing I can do with her".
The girl said to me "why doesn't mum care what I do?"

That kid just needed some structure in her life and the sense that her mother was the parent, rather than some vague presence in her life who didn't care what she did.

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Important points Julia.

Ive always been best friends with my 2.
I always treated them as equals even when really young 3 on wards.
But that equality has and still has boundaries as you mention.
My 2 know from a look without as much as a word from Dad whether its a good or bad point in a discussion or action.

Its always been my belief that all we can do is guide our kids on their path. We cant walk it---maybe next to them but not for them
Kris who is no a doctor of Physics changed dramatically when he proved to himself that he COULD do those things he found impossible.

I never wanted Kris to be anything more than happy in life---still feel the same way.

But back when he was 16 he came to me saying that he just couldn't understand Maths.
He was a struggling D student.He so wanted to be good at maths as he had an insatiable apatite for all things Science.
I was only a matric level poor maths student myself so suggested HE choose HIS maths tutor and Id help with the costs.
He found a 27 yr old Maths Masters graduate who after he interviewed a few met his criteria.---I had no idea what---specifically he needed--Kris did.

For 2 mths I just paid the Bills.
Then after around 3 mths I noticed no bills.
I rang Kris and asked if he'd sacked his tutor---as all reports along the way were all good.
His reply was--"No--I GET IT NOW". So I dont need him.

Well he did get it and 10 yrs on has his Doctorate.

But on from your comments on STRUCTURE and further to those comments on pier pressure.

The next biggest change I saw in both my 2 was the influence of adults in their lives.
Kris while doing his Masters---then Doctorate spent all day with scientists.
Pretty grounded lunatics.
Nat once she started work gravitated towards the older girls and to this day has many older friends who she keeps in contact with.

We as Parents are their first contact with the Adult world. If we set the wrong example both in what we do---that they see--- and how we handle situations that arent all that easy for anyone to handle---they WILL follow.
Where ever you set your boundaries will be where they believe they can set theirs.
Mind you I'm a bit more liberal in some of my boundaries than they are in theirs! Comes from the Hippy era!

Great points Julia.

mate take the little bugger on a road trip up to the cape ,get bogged a few times,take a couple off cartons a guitar and sing kum-by-are around the campfire and tell him what you were like. I have done with my three now they know every story by heart.
I agree you should have taken the grog back with him and decked the bloke [victim] if he had of bunged on a turn

P.S. Take starcraftmaster with you

I think everyone has good advice. As parents the mistake we are making is the inconsistency in our approaches. I am much more hardline than my wife is.

However, I am at work most days, earning the money for us, while she is more often at home on the frontline dealing with the actual issue. The last time I took the initiative with my hardline approach , I ended up with a black eye, police were called and I got a restraining order against him for threatening me with a kitchen knife. We had all sorts of stupid family services people over, court appearances and other stuff that solved nothing.

I can no longer get myself too worked up with this situation, I'm not going to be his friend and I'm just hoping he is going to grow out of this before he does more harm to himself and our family. The fact is things have improved a lot since he's been at his new school. He has interests outside dealing drugs and hanging around with scum at train stations.

Oh yes, we have had him front of numerous psychologists, different schools, police, youthworkers etc etc. There is no mental illness - he's a very intelligent boy who is extremely immature and is going through puberty.

My personal feeling is by 18 he will be fine and won't remember much about his behavior now. Of course he will remember all the mistakes we made and will revel in reminding us about it.