This is a mobile optimized page that loads fast, if you want to load the real page, click this text.

Home Insulation Debacle

Jump to new
basilio said:
But Peter Costello and co are hardly likely to accept that arn't they? Not when there is a Labour head to kick...
Click to expand...

What has Peter Costello had to say about it? I haven't heard any comment from him for many weeks.
 

Yeah GL, I have been advocating a Royal Commission on this debacle for a while now, but how does it happen? Who forces the issue? Is it up to the opposition or a petition by the people? I'll sign one any day.
 
noco said:
Yeah GL, I have been advocating a Royal Commission on this debacle for a while now, but how does it happen? Who forces the issue? Is it up to the opposition or a petition by the people? I'll sign one any day.
Click to expand...

Hi there noco

Petition is one way the public can take action to push for a Royal Commission. It is the government of the day that must call for any inquiry or royal commission. Royal Commissions are intended to be independent from the executive arm of government and influential stakeholders usually by the appointment of a member of the judiciary to head any inquiry. The requirement of independence is not set out in Australian legislation unlike other parts of the Commonwealth.

The process for Royal Commissions is currently under review by the
Australian Law Reform Commission. Last month, the Federal Government tabled in Parliament a report titled: Making Inquiries: A New Statutory Framework. It's the first review of the Royal Commissions Act in 107 years.

Australia: Australian Law Reform Commission reports on its review of Royal Commissions and public inquiries
09 February 2010
Article by Ashley Tsacalos and Catherine Kelso
Here's an excerpt from the link
------> http://www.mondaq.com/australia/article.asp?articleid=93782

The ALRC's key recommendations involve the establishment of two tiers of public inquiry, with Royal Commissions being retained as the highest form of inquiry to look into matters of substantial public importance and a second tier of inquiry to be called 'Official Inquiries', established by ministers to look into matters of public importance. The amended Royal Commissions Act would be renamed the Inquiries Act.

Specific recommendations are made that distinguish between the two tiers of inquiry, while ensuring that each tier has the necessary tools to conduct investigations without inappropriately infringing on the rights of a person involved with, or affected by, inquiry processes. For example, Royal Commissions may still be able to abrogate the privilege against self-incrimination in certain circumstances while Official Inquiries, which the ALRC envisages will need less instructive investigatory powers, may not. Royal Commissions would also be able to abrogate 'client legal privilege' if stipulated in the Letters Patent, while Official Inquiries could not.

Currently, legislation does not require the tabling in Parliament of Royal Commission reports. The ALRC recommends that the current practice of governments to table reports be formalised by a statutory requirement in the Inquiries Act. If for any reason a report is not to be tabled, the Government would have to publish a statement of reasons as to why this is the case.

If you want to read the 628 page ALRC report here's the link.
----> http://www.alrc.gov.au/inquiries/current/royal-commissions/ALRC111/ALRC111.pdf Specifically look at page 122 of the report for Factors for consideration before an inquiry is established.


Also , here's a link to the Historical role of Public Inquiries contained in the report. Each Commonwealth jurisdiction has had a different process.

-----> http://www.alrc.gov.au/inquiries/cu...s/ALRC111/A2.HistoryRoleOfPublicInquiries.pdf

In Disorganized Crime by Richard Hall.
St. Lucia, Qld. : University of Queensland Press, 1986.
Hall describes Australian Royal Commissions 'as Australian as a meat pie.'
 
Fresh off the press

Govt seeks probe of insulation rorting
CATHY ALEXANDER
March 4, 2010 - 7:09PM

AAP

http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-...robe-of-insulation-rorting-20100304-plla.html

The federal government is set to order an urgent, high-level investigation amid new claims its botched home insulation scheme was rorted by operators possibly linked to organised crime.

Frontbencher Greg Combet, who is in charge of cleaning up the insulation mess, has written to the federal auditor-general pressing for a full, fast-tracked audit.
 

Thanks GL for that info. 'twas most informative.

I can't see it ever happening if we wait for the Governer General to impliment a Royal Commission, considering her close political association with Rudd and Shorten.
Conbet will also protect his mates.
 

You got it in one there Noco.

Protecting there mates!

Hold your head up high that you are not there mates!

That's the key.

You should still voice and exercise your concerns & rights as a citizen to the network that funds all this death & **** as a taxpayer though!
 


Exactly right, noco. It will not be in the government's interests to have a Royal Commission.

In the ABC Radio news report I heard about this at 6pm, Mr Combet was saying he intended to "do all he could" to find out about the possible rorting/fraud allegations.
The language (and this may have changed in subsequent bulletins) allowed him a clear out.

I can't see that there is any excuse for not investigating each and every installer who has falsely claimed for insulation having been installed.
For the complaint to be made, there must be a record of the installer and the date they claim to have installed the product.

I received one of these about six weeks ago, declaring insulation had been installed on 23 September 2009, and would I please sign the paperwork attached so they could claim from the government. No insulation had been installed.

I forwarded it to the office of the Shadow Minister, having received no interest from the government hotline when I reported it.

Had appreciative response from the Shadow Minister's office, saying they had forwarded the complaint to Mr Garrett's office for comment and they would pass on his reply when it was received.
So far nothing further. I expect Mr Garrett has been a bit busy until recently.
Maybe now, when taking a break from opening the odd art gallery and counting endangered fleas, he may address some of the outstanding correspondence.
Though probably not, in that everything relating to insulation will probably now land on Mr Combet's desk.
 

Have you thought about contacting these guys Julia.

http://www.fairtrading.qld.gov.au/contact-us.htm

Even though it is a federally administered program. Surely the business that got in touch with you is registered in Queensland. That would be a costly but worthy exercise considering the potential of hazards for public safety. All I can say is good luck!
 
Hi Gumby, No, I rather think the whole thing has rather gone beyond Fair Trading at this stage and they would probably just pass any complaints on to the government.

I actually decided to change my mind and have the insulation installed after hearing several people declare it had made their homes much more comfortable.

The firm is one of the larger Qld wide ones.
The original quote was for $1598 (note how neatly it fitted into the then allowed government rebate amount.)

When I changed my mind the rebate had been reduced to $1200.

I suggested to them that unless they wanted to be the subject of government scrutiny for fraud, they would provide the original amount of material at not more than $1200 total cost. They happily agreed and couldn't do it quickly enough.

I do think it's possible this may have been a clerical error because I had originally accepted the quote, made a day to have it done, then changed my mind.

I've since heard of several other householders who have also received these letters declaring installation has been completed when they have not even had a quote!
 
Julia said:
I've since heard of several other householders who have also received these letters declaring installation has been completed when they have not even had a quote!
Click to expand...

They sound like a pack of dodge merchants. A royal commission is what is required so that the public can know who is doing the ripping off, and who the government has allowed to be registered to be ripped-off. IMHO!

Hegemonic Falsified Altruism and UN brown-nosing point scoring for Mr.Non-Specificity Anti-Vocational Rudd. But he did say that the buck stops with me. Problem is the buck never started with the guy. Step into any neighbourhood shed and I'm sure he would be quick to deny any recognition of the tools to be used. Problem is most of the electorate don't look/participate in chat forums.

All hail the abnormal leader!
 
What has Peter Costello had to say about it? I haven't heard any comment from him for many weeks.
Click to expand...

The article I posted referred to a story that Peter Costello ran equating the home insulation project with running public hospitals. From now on this project is going to be used to beat up any project Labour proposes that the Opposition want to oppose. Which should be just about everything.

I think the article I posted did make some good points. The private sector has enough cowboys and sharp operators quite capable of ripping people off and killing workers through poor practices. The poor administration of the rushed insulation scheme is only part of the picture.

http://www.nationaltimes.com.au/opi...-health-another-batty-idea-20100302-pg6q.html
 

No doubt basilio I agree. There is good and bad in every trade/profession/business etc.. But usually substandard business go under because you can only burn people enough that word gets around. But it is quite concerning that taxpayer money has been wasted on advertising/rorting/compo claims and now bailouts for the failout. It's great to have good intentions but Garrett's office did ignore 21 consecutive safety warnings before his demotion. Now people have died and more public money has to be spent on safety audits. Also, I posted a question on this thread about how many pink batts were imported from the USA. No-one has been able to answer this yet. Not only have we not just been stimulating our own economy but enriching others and to the detriment and safety of Australian homes. It's quite disgusting if you have good think about it.

Just my
 
Speaking to a mate today who's a sparky on the Sunshine Coast. He's currently working for a guy who's got a contract to inspect the foil insulated homes. Government is paying $400 for each inspection, plus an Hourly rate if there are dramas with the job/needs extra time. Unit takes ~ 1 hour to inspect, a home anywhere upto 2-3 hours. 4 Guys working, 2 teams of 2.

Apparently alot of elect's are turning down the work as a few home owners have tried to botch up the insulation after they've checked it and then sue them (that's why they work in teams of 2 to check on each others work/make sure everything is 100%)

Can get through ~ 10 inspections a day. Started on Monday and already has found 6 dodgy jobs, just laying the foil over the top of the downlights/ect.
 
You wait, the next news headline will be "Dodgy auditors found" and they will have to audit the auditors by paying them even more per hour. This is going to cost us MILLIONS in tax payer funded $$
 
cornnfedd said:
You wait, the next news headline will be "Dodgy auditors found" and they will have to audit the auditors by paying them even more per hour. This is going to cost us MILLIONS in tax payer funded $$
Click to expand...
Yes, I'll be surprised if this doesn't happen.
How they can make it possible for the previous installers to become inspectors and then inspect their own earlier work is beyond reasonable comprehension.
I can't understand why the Opposition isn't screaming about this.

Btw Basilio, if you seriously think what has happened with the insulation programme isn't enough to put us off the notion of the feds taking over Health, I'm just astonished.

The batts programme is just a nothing compared to a whole of country stuff up with Health.
How can you imagine if they can't get a simple little one off programme like insulation executed efficiently they could possibly cope with the complexities of the whole hospital system, general practice, private specialist practices, private health cover, ambulance and emergency systems etc?

Why do you think mr Rudd has only released the funding aspect of his brave new concept of Health? Is it reasonable to expect the States (or the electorate) to form an opinion about the feds taking over if they/we are not in possession of all the detail regarding how it will all work in practice, i.e. where are all the necessary beds, doctors and nurses going to come from?
What procedures will be established to prevent hospitals ratcheting up unnecessary surgical procedures just to claim the additional funding under the suggested new funding criteria?

So many questions.
 
GumbyLearner said:
Also, I posted a question on this thread about how many pink batts were imported from the USA. No-one has been able to answer this yet.
Click to expand...
"Pink Batts" are a specific brand of what is generically known as fibreglass batts. Pink Batts as such are manufactured in Australia (not sure if they are also manufactured elsewhere) whilst generic fibreglass batts are manufactured in numerous locations globally.

I don't know how much has been imported but I simply observe this. Prior to this scheme, I had never seen any imported fibreglass insulation batts used in an Australian house. "Pink Batts" are the best known local product, but there are others such as Bradford Gold Batts, Fat Batts and so on, all of which are locally made.

But now there's insulation from China and elsewhere being installed left, right and centre. Judge for yourself, but if we assume that the Australian manufacturers wouldn't have had a large unused production capacity prior to the government scheme then it is likely that much of the additional demand was met by imports.

The great tragedy for the Australian manufacturers is that they had a viable industry on an ongoing basis before government stepped in. Now demand for their products has fallen in a hole, replaced by imports filling broght-forward demand and now there's a halted government scheme plus a loss of public confidence in insulation generally. Apart from new construction, there's basically no market for insulation now - it sure hasn't done the legitimate installers and local manufacturers any good by wrecking the industry.

It's a classic case of government meddling messing things up. It would have been hard to create a bigger mess if they'd tried...

I'm a big fan of insulating houses generally - personally I'd regard a lack of it in a climate needing heating / cooling as a building defect. But like anything, it's only good if it's done with quality products installed properly.
 

But wait!

Remember the minimum 35+Million pop target The Greatest Prime Minister This Country Has Ever Seen has proposed/mandated?

Surely that will solve the current oversupply problem in time?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Cheap Chinese cars, not so cheap to repair
Replies
13
Views
616
Knobby22
Can you make money investing in watches?
2
Replies
29
Views
1K
moXJO
M
How Hitler Dismantled a Democracy in 53 Days
Replies
11
Views
625
basilio
Vale Clive Robertson
Replies
2
Views
495
SirRumpole
The Common Black Bird, kill or let live
2
Replies
27
Views
1K
wayneL
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more...