Have Al Qaeda in Pakistan gone too far?

[2020hindsight]

Have Al Qaeda (Qaida) gone too far with the bombing of the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad?

Last-minute change of plans saved Pakistan's President and Prime Minister

Rumours that even the Pakistanis are becoming less tolerant of and/or sympathetic towards the AQ cause are probably the only positive thing on the horizon for tackling this group of murderous demented religious zealot idiots.

Bit like the crusaders when you think about it

One can only hope that both groups of idiots will one day be lost to the dark pages of history.

PS I nearly said "One can only pray that both groups .. etc" lol. Call it a Freudian slip of divine magnitude .

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/09/22/2371256.htm

 

[2020hindsight]

PS I'm guessing that the Pakistani President and PM will keep their dinner appointments confidential and fluid in future

PS Let's not forget that AQ are based in Pakistan. Wouldn't it be nice to think they lost the "hearts and minds" of the locals.

 

[Happy]

Rumours that even the Pakistanis are becoming less tolerant of and/or sympathetic towards the AQ cause are probably the only positive thing on the horizon for tackling this group

Some say it is necessary sacrifice, but as you mentioned growing number is not as accommodating, so fingers crossed and lets hope that they might be stopped by their own.

 

[Wysiwyg]

Without a doubt it is the age of the coward.The yellow-bellies show their true colours.

 

[misterS]

hi 2020 -

An interesting choice of phrase.

The fact is, they aren't politicians and they don't seek to convince anyone.

They don't claim responsibilty and they don't confess because their aims cannot be openly aired outside their inner circles.

What can they say, "We have again today brutally bombed and killed your fellow citizens at random because we hate you and hate what you are. We wish to dominate ever aspect of your lives and so we may stop when you become sufficiently like us - but that may not be possible - we are a work in progress and so you may never be like us."

Their principle aim is to take over the moderate muslim world. This doesn't involve argument, or "hearts and minds". This mainly involves destabilisation and fear and trying to spread the faulty logic that it couldn't be worse if they let them take over.

Murder of muslim locals isn't just collateral damage as they try to strike at Westerners. They largely want Westerners out because those democratic and secular ideas infect the locals with weakness and those God-annoying practices such as equality for women.

Females allowed out of their homes, brazenly showing their BARE FACES to inflame male neighbours, driving cars, getting an EDUCATION and other abominations cannot be permitted - they might learn something for a start.

Never mind christians and jews, it is modern secular ideas of freedom and equality that cannot co-exist with their radical muslim theocracy.

They don't seek agreement and they certainly don't seek approval and so while in our conventional sense they have already gone too far, in their own context they can never go too far. This is one of the things that makes them quite dangerous - they lack any sense of proportion.

What they seek is domination and so no violation of people, however vile or disgusting can ever be of any relevance, except inasmuch as it might be viewed in the historical context of contributing to victory - or not.

 

[2020hindsight]

1. ..... What can they say, "We have again today brutally bombed and killed your fellow citizens at random because ... we hate you and hate what you are. (??)

2. Their principle aim is to take over the moderate muslim world. This doesn't involve argument, or "hearts and minds". This mainly involves destabilisation and fear and trying to spread the faulty logic that it couldn't be worse if they let them take over.
....

3. ... in their own context they can never go too far. This is one of the things that makes them quite dangerous - they lack any sense of proportion.

1. "we hate you" ... how the hell do people follow such a leadership

2. "principal aim is to take over the moderate muslim world" - surely this cannot happen as long as we keep talking to their "hearts and minds".

3. "they lack any sense of proportion" - one question in my mind, is it contagious ?
(and I suspect it is)

 

[misterS]

1. "we hate you" ... how the hell do people follow such a leadership

2. "principal aim is to take over the moderate muslim world" - surely this cannot happen as long as we keep talking to their "hearts and minds".

3. "they lack any sense of proportion" - one question in my mind, is it contagious

1. Well, they lead people who are very special and loved by a strong, manly God to do a special job, which involves killing themselves (worthy) and also a kind of false, deluded, WEAK corrupt kind of muslim that your macho God isn't all that keen on at all (unworthy). In fact, we hate them as much as we hate pretty well everyone - not you, mate, and present company excepted, of course.

2. This is one reason why the expulsion of Westerners is pursued. For all our faults, we are recognised as a comparative voice of reason. Not required when you want people to submit to your tyrannical "we know best" rule. They only want worthy hearts and minds.

Same kind of thinking as Hitler at the end when he said the German people had let him down and deserved what they got! Talk about insult to injury!

3. Another apt remark, because that is generally what cooler heads are trying to ensure every day - that people do not more broadly start to feel the need to respond in kind. You have to reach a fairly grim place to "win" if that comes to pass.

It is lucky that most people generally are decent, and feel constrained by their personal moral imperatives.

I dislike and bridle against constraints on liberty and the often clumsy operators of the mechanisms, like what happened with this Haneef balls-up, but I recognise the danger of this lot.

I might add, without the least intention of slandering Mr Haneef, for example, if he were hypothetically of like mind with other relatives, he would not say so.

Modern terrorism is more effective if you don't rant and rave about your goals, but go on working assiduously towards them, sowing confusion among your enemies by not even clearly stating what the hell you actually want.

We became so accustomed to the publicity seeking as the goal of terrorist acts - Meinhoff, Sybionese liberation army, PLO, IRA, whoever, that we have been a bit confused by this current mob.

As a result, many people have never really formed a clear idea of just what these pricks want - just that they apparently really hate freedom-loving americans -which may be true enough, but isn't the real answer and isn't their principle motivation.

 

[Wysiwyg]

As a result, many people have never really formed a clear idea of just what these pricks want - just that they apparently really hate freedom-loving americans -which may be true enough, but isn't the real answer and isn't their principle motivation.

Yes I was going to question you about the 911 motive or more precisely the groups ulterior motive in this ongoing war of cowardice.As you mention there is no real answer.It`s just coward bombing for no stated reason.

 

[misterS]

Yes I was going to question you about the 911 motive or more precisely the groups ulterior motive in this ongoing war of cowardice.As you mention there is no real answer.It`s just coward bombing for no stated reason.

Their principle aim is to take over the moderate muslim world. This doesn't involve argument, or "hearts and minds". This mainly involves destabilisation and fear and trying to spread the faulty logic that it couldn't be worse if they let them take over.

 

[Wysiwyg]

Their principle aim is to take over the moderate muslim world. This doesn't involve argument, or "hearts and minds". This mainly involves destabilisation and fear and trying to spread the faulty logic that it couldn't be worse if they let them take over.

It certainly is a no win situation for them and their tentacles have been severed sufficiently as to localise their destructive nature.

 

[robert toms]

I can understand and support the US when it wanted to bring the perpetrators of the Twin Towers destructions to heel.
However they ,the US,saw the chance to broaden the agenda and destabilise the region,They installed their own cronies from the North Alliance in government in Afghanistan ....this by overthrowing the Taliban .
Like the Taliban or not,they are native to the region (Pashtun),and believe that they are fighting an on-going historical war against a series of invaders.
British,Russians,Americans etc.
When all of the mist has cleared the US alliance had better come to a negotiated settlement with these people...because the end is not in sight.
I would hazard a guess that the Islamabad bombing was to get Pakistan to pressurise the US ...to feck off.
Perpetual war....go for it...kill,kill,kill...more propaganda,more crap!

 

[johenmo]

Like the Taliban or not,they are native to the region (Pashtun),and believe that they are fighting an on-going historical war against a series of invaders.British,Russians,Americans etc.

I think the above is a big factor. When you look at history for the region (and it's neighbouring regions) and the ongoing skirmishes/wars between tribal peoples, and then with/against colonialists, you can understand (not necessarily agree) how this develops. And when a group of groups with a hatred come along and feed the feelings then the disenfranchised will rise to the call.

Westerners generally don't understand the depth of passion behind faiths/beliefs - we don't have it. And history also shows that regional people will unite against a common foe - and then when that's over, turn back to squabbling.

I don't believe that the US/allies will win in Afghanistan as they are "invaders" and the will to fight is greater amongst the taliban. Vietnam got rid of the French and then the US.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but isn't "Afghanistan" a western country re the borders - and hence made up of many smaller tribal groups?

 

[mayk]

If US is killing innocent people by attacking inside Pakistan and AQ is also attacking Pakistan, what can they do?

An article from time explains the dangers of the situation..

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1841649,00.html?imw=Y

As I have often repeated that Americans have a tendency of converting a small local problem in to full scale disaster. recent example include Georgia and Pakistan/Afghanistan.

I don't know what the ultimate objective is but one thing is for sure you cannot capture a ghost. Nor can you go on killing innocent children and women and then easily bundle it into "Collateral Damage". People don't forget such instances, especially if you are claiming to be their friend. These people are known for their revenge and facing tough situation.

No one knows what is going on in Afghanistan, which can be guessed by the recent "friendly" shooting of an Afghan Governor by Australian Diggers.... . So they could not distinguish a taliban from an 'so called' elected governor... No wonder Afghanistan is in such a mess.


A simple solution is to seal off the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan, with (i know it is not PC but) Landmines, whoever will cross it illegally will be blown to bits. Simple and effective solution. It will cost less (humanly and money wise).

I don't think America is interested in leaving Afghanistan that is why it has now started a war where they can easily blame someone and destabilize the region further. They seem to be onto something bigger and uglier, which only time will unveil.

Another aspect is the surprise in militancy after 9/11. Before that it was evil Soviets. It is big political scoring on international front and these kind of acts increase the scare mongering and help them advance their respective agendas.

 

[robert toms]

This border thing...borders are arbitary.
Without looking it up ,I would guess that the imaginary line between Pakistan and Afghanistan was drawn by the British.
The Pashtun straddle the border and historically have no recognition of it.
Britain made a mistake when they ceded the Muslim Kashmir to India...and the repercussions are still on-going.
To a lot peoples around the world these arbitary border lines have been drawn by the west for their own advantage...or simply carelessness and inadequate local knowledge.
How were all of these little emirates and kingdoms carved out around the oil-rich Persian Gulf ?
On a personal level I have not read a Time magazine or Newsweek since the Vietnam war...I resent being sucked in by propaganda.

 

[1mann]

Have Al Qaeda (Qaida) gone too far with the bombing of the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad?

Last-minute change of plans saved Pakistan's President and Prime Minister

Rumours that even the Pakistanis are becoming less tolerant of and/or sympathetic towards the AQ cause are probably the only positive thing on the horizon for tackling this group of murderous demented religious zealot idiots.

Bit like the crusaders when you think about it

One can only hope that both groups of idiots will one day be lost to the dark pages of history.

PS I nearly said "One can only pray that both groups .. etc" lol. Call it a Freudian slip of divine magnitude .

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/09/22/2371256.htm

with regards to your question,if you have to ask this question, you seriously shoul'd be let out of the house alone!,never mind being allowed to post questions on a forum.what's your next question, is cancer good for your health???????????????????????????

 

[robert toms]

Information from Tariq Ali is that US drones killed 100 civilians inside Pakistan last week.
The repeated killing of civilians has caused many,probably most,Pakistanis to recognise the real evil as the US.
Is this expansion of the war similar to the attacks in Cambodia during the Vietnam war....when the war is not going well ,ramp up and expand the mayhem.
It seems that we have two lots of zealots...the Taliban and the US.
The difference is that the one belongs to the region...one is an invader !
Did any of our captive media report on the loss of civilian life to drones in
Pakistan last week ?

 

[juw177]

The only reason Pakistan made headline news all of a sudden is because the US wants to link them to Al Qaeda and expand their occupation... not that their occupation in Afghanistan was any more legitimate.

 

[OzWaveGuy]

How does one know that AQ is actually responsible? Is there an investigation that has run it's due course and has proven without a doubt that this is the case? It sounds bizarre to me why AQ would attack Pak since the current regime is not so pro-US as proven by recent incursions by US forces that have been met by Pak forces opening fire on US helicopters and forced them to return across the border.

 

[2020hindsight]

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/new...i-alqaeda-cell-hunted-over-blast/1279602.aspx

Pakistan is fighting a bloody campaign against al-Qaeda and Taliban extremists based near the border, who have launched dozens of suicide attacks over the past year, often using small cells in major cities.

Another senior Pakistani security official said the explosives used in the bombing were like those used in two other large-scale militant attacks, including one on the Danish embassy in Islamabad in June.

''We are collecting evidence. The explosives were similar to those used in the Danish embassy [attack], which was claimed by al-Qaeda, and the attack on the ISI [Pakistani security service] camp in Rawalpindi last year.''

Al-Qaeda leader Mustafa Abu al-Yazid, said the Danish embassy attack, which killed six people, was executed in revenge for Danish newspaper caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad.

No group claimed responsibility for a bus bombing near an ISI establishment in Rawalpindi last November that killed at least 15 people.

Afghanistan and Pakistan had agreed to ''honest cooperation'' against terrorism after the Marriott bombing, Afghan President Hamid Karzai's office said yesterday.

Mr Karzai, whose country has been hit by similar attacks, called Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani on Sunday to offer his nation's condolences.

Mr Karzai told Mr Gilani the attack showed the only way to get rid of terrorism was widespread and honest cooperation in warring against it.

Mr Karzai's statement quoted Mr Gilani as saying, ''People of both countries are affected by terrorist attacks and a joint cooperation between both countries is needed.''

Yet more meetings in NY this week .. Maybe Rudd will come back with the latest (not that the opposition think that would be relevant to anything ) :-

The Afghan leader is due to meet Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly meeting in New York tomorrow. AFP

 

[2020hindsight]

It sounds bizarre to me why AQ would attack Pak since the current regime is not so pro-US as proven by recent incursions by US forces that have been met by Pak forces opening fire on US helicopters and forced them to return across the border.

good point Oz.
not that AQ think clearly at the best of times.
watch this space as they say

Certainly it seems to be forcing a joining of anti-AQ forces.