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Has the 100 year Jihad (war) begun ... ???

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basilio said:
Who in their right mind would blame a young girl wearing a scarf for the atrocity of a madman who happened to also pray in a mosque?
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No rational Australian would of course....not even if the atrocity was committed in the name of Allah... which it was. We are a very tolerant people.
 
Value Collector said:
The enemy is faith, Love and respect all people, hate and destroy all faith.
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What atrocious cr@p.

Advocating hatred of anything, including other peoples faith, sincerely held and innocuously followed is contemptuous of peoples rights to hold what views they so desire if they don't interfere with the rights of others to do the same.

Promoting such garbage violates your often expressed support for freedom of religion and shows you in a somewhat hypocritical light.

Penn Gillette should stick to magic, he's obviously no philosopher.
 

I have always supported religious freedom, But I don't support the concept of taking things on faith, or believing your private thoughts are some how the words of gods. I can support your right to have a religion while also hating the idea that your taking things on faith instead of evidence.

Offcourse you can hate something, don't you hate the concept of abusing children, don't you hate violence against women.

He isn't saying hate people.

Penn Jillette should stick to magic
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Magicians are some of the best debunkers out there, they know all the tricks the charlatans use to fool people. A large part of The Penn and Teller magic show is dedicated to debunking the tricks the hucksters use to fool innocent people and try to get the audience to be more sceptical rather than accept things blindly.
 

I think religion helps keep people in check, whether you or I want to believe it or not. The threat of eternal damnation for being evil and reward in the afterlife for being good is a fairly powerful force. It depends on how the religions want to play their sacred books. Of course some of them take the extremist route which is not good.

The alternative is for atheists to go around telling people that no matter how good or bad they are in their lives they won't be rewarded or punished for their deeds, except by the civil authorities, and if you have a smart lawyer maybe not even then. Atheists find it a lot harder to preach morality because they can't really find a justification for it. Why should you be good to other people ? At the end of your days it doesn't matter if you do or don't according to atheists.

Taking things on evidence is a smart way to live a mortal life, but a lot of people don't like to believe that mortality is all there is and once they are dead there is nothing else. That is why atheism is an essentially unsatisfying philosophy to many people.

While religion may be declining due to abuses by the Catholic church and Islamic extremism, people will always be hoping that there is a life after death and religions that cater to this belief will always have a foot in the door of a lot of peoples lives.
 
SirRumpole said:
. The threat of eternal damnation for being evil and reward in the afterlife for being good is a fairly powerful force.
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It is a powerful force, it keeps the charlatans bank accounts over flowing, it keeps the divides in society firm, and it keeps otherwise good people doing terrible things.

I mean the people that flew the planes into the world trade centres were probably decent people wanting to do what was right, unfortunately they were convinced on faith that killing the infidels was the right thing to do.

You want to keep people in check, but once you have told them their faith is a pathway to truth, and the holy text are infallible, you have no way to keep them in check.

It depends on how the religions want to play their sacred books. Of course some of them take the extremist route which is not good.
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And you will never be able to stop that through religious debate. Only doubt and scepticism can stop extremism.

Atheists find it a lot harder to preach morality because they can't really find a justification for it. Why should you be good to other people ?
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That's not true at all, morality predates religions, the reasons to be moral are secular reasons, in fact you need to have pre existing morality before you read the religious texts, otherwise how do you judge which parts to ignore and which to believe.

Any Christian that can rationalise away and ignore the immoral parts of the bible, but cherry pick the moral teachings is showing that their moral code is not based on those texts.


Believing this life is merely a temporary inconvenience on the way to your immortal future can lead you to not embrace this life to its full extent.


Yes, there will always be con men willing to take advantage of the gullible, whether that be people doing psychic readings for those who have lost loved ones or telling people that are afraid of death that they are not really going to die. But I would rather help people over come their grief or fear with reality rather than feed them to the hucksters.
 
Monis was a nutter who just happened to be a Muslim, nothing to do with Islamic terrorism.
 
So_Cynical said:
Monis was a nutter who just happened to be a Muslim, nothing to do with Islamic terrorism.
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Both his actions and words were consistent with that of an Islamic terrorist. Unless we have information to the contrary why would we think anything differently.

Just because he was not acting on behalf in an organized team of terrorist within Australia does not mean that he was not an Islamic terrorist. The Islamic state have encouraged Muslims worldwide to commit acts of terrorism on their own without great planning or organisation against Westernised countries, this can be achieved through a single person such as this man actions.
 
Hodgie said:
Just because he was not acting on behalf in an organized team of terrorist within Australia does not mean that he was not an Islamic terrorist. .
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All good intentions, but once again, same question how do you know that?
 
basilio said:
On a far more positive note I think the widespread adoption of people of the "I'll walk with you" hashtag to support the Muslim community is incredibly human.
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Really?
I'm reminded of a conversation a couple of days ago with someone who, responding to my being appalled at two innocent Australians losing their lives, shrugged and said "s**t happens: " Then he said, "what made me really sad was hearing that a muslim woman on a train removed her hijab".
Could we start to get a sense of proportion here? He is, btw, a dedicated Christian who believes in God, life after death and other such fantasy.

+1.

SirRumpole said:
I think religion helps keep people in check, whether you or I want to believe it or not. The threat of eternal damnation for being evil and reward in the afterlife for being good is a fairly powerful force.
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It might be for you presumably because you believe in it. For those of us who decline such beliefs it has no such power.
And the lack of such fairytales does not render us devoid of reasonable moral fortitude.

It's a defining characteristic of religious followers to assume that because they believe something, it applies to others. It simply doesn't.

I've not observed any atheists or agnostics 'going around telling people" anything in particular. Unless foolish enough to be drawn into a discussion such as this on an internet forum, I've never known atheists to even discuss religion. It's irrelevant in their lives, contrary to the propensity of believers in religion to want to prosletyze.

Atheists are realists. Makes it more likely they will make more effort to contribute what they can in the one life we do have.

.... people will always be hoping that there is a life after death
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As above. Speak for yourself. Sensible people will not nurture any such imaginings.


Tisme said:
How do you know that?
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Yes, indeed, how?
 
Julia said:
It (religion) might be for you presumably because you believe in it. For those of us who decline such beliefs it has no such power.
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No I don't. I've said that many times. But a lot of people do.

I believe in an afterlife, not any religion's idea of what that is.

I've not observed any atheists or agnostics 'going around telling people" anything in particular.
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Your powers of observation are sadly lacking.

As above. Speak for yourself. Sensible people will not nurture any such imaginings.
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Sensible people don't believe what either religion or atheism preach as neither has proved their case.

I've never known atheists to even discuss religion.
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You must be joking. Look at all the posts of VC and FxTrader on this forum.

It's obviously vitally important to them that everyone believes what they think is "the truth", whether they can prove it or not. They are no different to the religious preachers.
 
Tisme said:
All good intentions, but once again, same question how do you know that?
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Sorry how do I know what?

If you mean how do I know he was an Islamic terrorist, I guess that I don't know that for certain but his actions and words lead me to believe he was, so until more information becomes available to support a contrary view that is what he was in my eyes.

The point I was trying to make is that people try to blame actions such as the Sydney siege on things other than these religious beliefs, but when the man himself made comments to the media that it is an act of terror from the Islamic State and in the past has harassed the families of dead Australian troops for killing Muslim solders it appears to me that everything he is doing is motivated by his beliefs. He may have also been a nutter which pushed his beliefs to the extreme but his beliefs are what caused him to carry out these acts.
 
Tisme said:
That he wasn't acting on behalf in an organized team of terrorist within Australia?
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Good question, short answer is I don't know what his affiliations are.

However, to put the comment into context, I wrote it in response to the previous comment made "Monis was a nutter who just happened to be a Muslim, nothing to do with Islamic terrorism."

The point here is that even if he was not part of a terrorist organisation within Australia he could still be acting on behalf of the Islamic state on his own volition and therefore be classified as an Islamic terrorist.

If he is (or should I say was) part of an Islamic terrorist organisation residing within Australia then there is no argument, he most certainly would be classified as an Islamic terrorist.

It was a presumption made on my behalf but the fact of affiliation does not take away from the primary point I was making in terms of his terrorist actions and belief system.
 

If he was not a terrorist and was acting as a lone wolf nutter, why did he get his hostages to hold up an IS flag to the window of the cafe?
He was a terrorist alright and good riddens to him.
 
noco said:
If he was not a terrorist and was acting as a lone wolf nutter, why did he get his hostages to hold up an IS flag to the window of the cafe?
He was a terrorist alright and good riddens to him.
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You may have misinterpreted my previous comments. I completely agree with what you have just said.
 
SirRumpole said:
No I don't. I've said that many times. But a lot of people do.

I believe in an afterlife, not any religion's idea of what that is.



.
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You have developed your own private religion, you have said before you not only believe in an after life, but also think your actions in this life affect your next life.
 
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