Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Goldman Sachs Fraud... no **** Sherlock!

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BradK said:
Would love to see Lloyd Blankfein in prison oranges! The economic terrorism he has overseen surely makes him the worst of the worst. Send him to Gitmo I say!!!

Brad
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I second that motion.

"These charges are far more severe than anyone had imagined," and suggest Goldman teamed with "the leading short-seller in the industry to design a portfolio of securities that would crash," said John Coffee, a securities law professor at Columbia Law School in New York.
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Goldman Sachs are scum.
 
It is a civil law suit and the Goldman Sucks crowd will not be going to jail. Another disappointing murdoched headline to ignore.
 
The dictionary describes FRAUD as:

fraud   /frɔd/ Show Spelled[frawd] Show IPA
–noun
1. deceit, trickery, sharp practice, or breach of confidence, perpetrated for profit or to gain some unfair or dishonest advantage.
2. a particular instance of such deceit or trickery: mail fraud; election frauds.
3. any deception, trickery, or humbug: That diet book is a fraud and a waste of time.
4. a person who makes deceitful pretenses; sham; poseur.

If our courts applied the above to the CEOs and directors of listed and unlised property, mortgage and investment funds the government would have to build new courts to conduct the cases due to the many being charged. Why are our regulators lacking balls...........
 
The Owls said:
Why are our regulators lacking balls...........
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Well Owls

In the case of GS & the US Regulators. The US Government is effectively suing it itself. They were bailed out with public money and most Main St Americans are still fuming that Wall St was bailed-out. (Tea party protests)

Do you seriously believe that Government Appointments by George Bush & Barack Obama of Henry Paulson (recruited from GS), Timothy Geithner (recruited from GS), Larry Summers (recruited from GS), Gensler at the CFTC (recruited from GS) are seriously going to jail? ROTFLMAO. :D:D:D Oh stop, it hurts. ROTFLMAO

Obama has adopted the pre-commie dictator word Czar for each government appointee made by his administration. For the purist Obama's economic policies border on the true definition of fascism.

This is a bull**** media circus story that should be ignored IMO.

But if you want to have a laugh at how they were able to set this up then enjoy.

APPLY WITHIN: NO BRAINS REQUIRED ;)

 
If the banks succeed in stopping additional regulation on them by buying out each of the senators, we shall know the USA is doomed.

Especially after this obvious corruption.
 
Knobby22 said:
If the banks succeed in stopping additional regulation on them by buying out each of the senators, we shall know the USA is doomed.

Especially after this obvious corruption.
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Very good point with the assumption that most of the senators are not already bought by banks and other industries and USA is not doomed already ;).
 
OMG a conflict of interest in the financial services/investment banking sector.

While there is seemingly an obvious lack of disclosure by GS re the conflict for Paulson & Co in helping set-up the CDOs and then going short against these same instruments, some of the heat surely has to go to the opaque hedge fund industry as well.

As an aside, Paulson & Co funds currently have very large holdings in gold EFTs (one of the largest holders of the SDPR Gold Trust ETF). If there is a 'run' on these hedge funds then there might be some selling pressure for gold in the coming weeks - see below from 'Market Watch'.

'Gold prices fell on Friday, partly on concern that if Paulson investors try to redeem from the firm's hedge funds, the firm might be forced to unwind some of its gold positions, pressuring prices.' http://www.marketwatch.com/story/paulson-co-not-charged-in-sec-suit-vs-goldman-2010-04-16
 
This from Business Spectator suggests that the case will hinge on whether it can be proved that GS misled "an independent, third-party collateral manager, ACA," whose function in the deal feels to me very like that of a ratings agency:
http://www.businessspectator.com.au...an-Sach-pd20100419-4MSW9?OpenDocument&src=sph
The SEC has strong evidence that Goldman Sachs and Tourre knew that ACA was under the misapprehension that Paulson was an equity investor. But they haven’t produced evidence that demonstrates that Goldman Sachs or Tourre were directly responsible for ACA forming this erroneous view.

So the question becomes whether Goldman and Tourre should have corrected ACA’s misapprehension, even though it would have meant that their deal cratered.

If the answer is yes, Goldman could well find itself on the hook for the massive losses suffered by investors in the deal.

But even if the answer is no, there is going to be a much higher level of scrutiny on the ethics required of Wall Street firms, particularly what level of behaviour is acceptable in order to get a deal across the line.
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I guess you could call this a stinking fish defence.

Ghoti
 
My thoughts on these class actions (and we have had them in Australia) is that doesn't the legal system create a 'moral hazard' for investors by allowing them to be bailed out via civil proceedings? It is a similar argument than for corporations being bailed out by the government.

If an investor is forced to take a loss then surely they will make a better capital allocation decision next time?

In this instance, the learning outcomes could be:
1. the game is rigged;
2. derivatives are complex and beyond my comprehension;
3. house prices do not always go up;
4. diversification is meaningless if all the instruments owned are in the same asset class (i.e. housing);
5. disclosure in derivative markets are poor;
etc etc.

Instead, the learning outcome will now be 'if i do something stupid then i will sue'. Net outcome; hot money chases yield higher up the risk:return pay-off.

Anyway it irks me. If they have done the wrong thing, the SEC should charge them. Investors should take their medicine and make better decisions next time.

If they have done their dough permanently then welcome to capitalism! Rant, rant ...
 
GumbyLearner said:
It is a civil law suit and the Goldman Sucks crowd will not be going to jail. Another disappointing murdoched headline to ignore.
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Maybe...but who knows what the court case will uncover...

This is just the beginning of the very first domino wobbling.

Just maybe some very large, very unexpected ones will soon be wobbling also. Mark my words, things are about to get "interesting".

:jerry:jerry
 
Goldman Sachs was a major cause in the Financial Crisis and they again screw the world and me today. Look at the DOW down 1.13% and ASX200 down 1.5%. Fraud or not it has cost current shareholders a motza....
 
Bushman said:
My thoughts on these class actions (and we have had them in Australia) is that doesn't the legal system create a 'moral hazard' for investors by allowing them to be bailed out via civil proceedings? It is a similar argument than for corporations being bailed out by the government.

If an investor is forced to take a loss then surely they will make a better capital allocation decision next time?

In this instance, the learning outcomes could be:
1. the game is rigged;
2. derivatives are complex and beyond my comprehension;
3. house prices do not always go up;
4. diversification is meaningless if all the instruments owned are in the same asset class (i.e. housing);
5. disclosure in derivative markets are poor;
etc etc.

Instead, the learning outcome will now be 'if i do something stupid then i will sue'. Net outcome; hot money chases yield higher up the risk:return pay-off.

Anyway it irks me. If they have done the wrong thing, the SEC should charge them. Investors should take their medicine and make better decisions next time.

If they have done their dough permanently then welcome to capitalism! Rant, rant ...
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To put an opposite point of view to this, if GS have acted illegally, then investors can argue they were mislead and have a right to compo.

I do agree that if GS have done something illegal they should be punished, and so should investors who make poor decisions, but if those poor decisions are based on illagal discloures then they should have a right to some money being returned, similar to breach of contract etc
 
Gumbylearner
Do you seriously believe that Government Appointments by George Bush & Barack Obama of Henry Paulson (recruited from GS), Timothy Geithner (recruited from GS), Larry Summers (recruited from GS), Gensler at the CFTC (recruited from GS) are seriously going to jail? ROTFLMAO. Oh stop, it hurts. ROTFLMAO
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Abslolutely Gumby, just keep accumulating those gold and silver coins Champ
 
Goldigger Sucks are probably capitalising on their problems. They would have had some advanced warning that the game was up. I'll bet they have shorted the market knowing it would fall when the news broke.

The whole system is broken and shareholding has gone from being a place where companies raised capital to a casino game that uses as pawns the shares of companies with no regard to the companies themselves.

Where there is gambling there is probably corruption and cheating.
 
nioka said:
Goldigger Sucks are probably capitalising on their problems. They would have had some advanced warning that the game was up. I'll bet they have shorted the market knowing it would fall when the news broke
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they did short S&P allegedly
 
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