Garpal Gumnut
Ross Island Hotel
- Joined
- 2 January 2006
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5,000 years of human history says you are wrong.
Wrong about what? Everyone knows all fiats end the same way. I'm not arguing any different. I'm betting gold takes a big hit from deflationary pressures over the next 12 months, maybe more. There have been plenty of periods throughout history where fiat has out-performed gold.
1. You said "Gold is not money". I said 5000 years of human history proves you wrong, where gold has always been and still is accepted as money.
2. You then contradict yourself by saying you agree that all fiats go to zero eventually, showing that fiat is not true money.
3. You also said China will sell its gold to get dollars. If you think its going to sell its 1-2% gold reserves to add to its $1.7t USD, good luck to you.
4. If you expect gold to take a big hit, get short now.
It is always wise to buy physical gold and bury it in your backyard.
gg
I've done a fairly brutal reassessment of my smsf this weekend.
apart from some kgrams of physical gold I've hidden about the place, I'm bearish . I reckon its going to tank, $300 US or thereabouts after the US elections.
Its always good to have gold in case the whole world goes to s**t, but stocks or futures are gone atm imo.
gg
1. You said "Gold is not money". I said 5000 years of human history proves you wrong, where gold has always been and still is accepted as money.
2. You then contradict yourself by saying you agree that all fiats go to zero eventually, showing that fiat is not true money.
3. You also said China will sell its gold to get dollars. If you think its going to sell its 1-2% gold reserves to add to its $1.7t USD, good luck to you.
4. If you expect gold to take a big hit, get short now.
Well if you want to completely ignore the context of my views then go ahead and suit yourself. If you can be bothered going back through the thread it's clear that you are misrepresenting me.
When China crashes we'll see if they want dollars or Gold. I'm thinking they will trade their gold for dollars.
Well if you want to completely ignore the context of my views then go ahead and suit yourself. If you can be bothered going back through the thread it's clear that you are misrepresenting me.
This is my position regardless of your misrepresentations:
I have bet on USD strength and put my money where my mouth is, so far I have outperformed gold. I'm counting on this to continue for the next 12 months. I see $600/oz coming soon. So, yeah, I'm shorting gold. Are you buying at $780/oz? Where is your money? If you expect gold to rise in the coming months get in. Top up if you already have some, you seem to be inferring it's a bargain right now.
When the deflationary cycle looks to be bottoming out I will consider gold and CHF. This is there in the thread, open your eyes hero. It's there.
Fiat is money until fiat collapses. So yes fiat is money, you can buy real stuff with it. US Fiat is outperforming gold this year. Fiat is proving to be a better store of wealth right now. I'm betting on this continuing for the next 12 months, at least. Yes, I am putting money on this. Are going the other way? Please let us all know.
As far as China goes, they will not be spending their $1,7tr reserves on more gold during the deflationary cycle. They won't be pushing the price up. The Chinese public, to whom I was referring, won't be buying more gold either, they will be selling whatever they have to put food on the table. Where did I previously refer to the Chinese governments gold reserves and specifically China selling them? Maybe you've just assumed a bunch of things, not read through the thread properly, and now you're trying to marginalize my views.
The Bullion Market Versus The Paper Gold Market - An Explanation. Author: Jim Sinclair
Dear Friends,
1. It is axiomatic that the most leveraged gold market most often (95 percent of the time) sets the price of any cash market. First derivatives (listed futures) commands price.
2. This remains true as long as the COMEX warehouse of gold is NOT meaningfully depleted by long gold contracts by taking delivery from the exchange warehouse.
3. As long as an exchange maintains a warehouse that historically overwhelms historical demand for delivery the first derivative, The COMEX listed gold future, will be the primary cause of price.
4. Taking delivery from the COMEX warehouse is not an easy process as the system is designed not to violate your contract but to be a world-class pain in the ass.
5. The COMEX requires re-assays, assuming you wish to re-deliver. This then places another raving pain in the ass in your way.
6. The COMEX market is effectively an international 24-hour market as there is no location where you cannot buy or sell a COMEX clone.
7. Cash bullion gold as opposed to the semi cash markets that non-USA banks trade is the only totally private means of buying and selling gold.
8. As currency problems increase, first the knowledgeable public such as you clean out the coin market.
9. This is the first time that the international coin markets have been cleaned out everywhere. This did not happen globally in the 70s.
10. Large gold bars are still available in major markets but the backup inventory is getting low.
11. As long as the COMEX warehouse remains adequate and large bars still are available, the paper market, the leveraged COMEX market, will rule the price.
12. Only with a decline in COMEX warehouse inventories and a run down in large bar supplies of the cash market will the cash bullion market command the price of the COMEX futures market.
13. It was not the buying by the Hunts that caused silver to move above $30 into the $50 area, but rather the universal belief that they would take delivery, which would deplete or exceeded the COMEX warehouse supply.
14. The War between paper gold and bullion gold is a war to determine which will take command of the price of gold, nothing more, nothing less. There will be no two markets trading at different prices. All this battle is about is IF the bullion gold market is going to take the lead in making the singular price away from the traditional axiom that the most leveraged market makes the price. I believe the bullion, in these most unique conditions, will command the one gold price making it hard to impossible to manipulate the gold price via the paper gold market, as is the practice every day.
I have bet on USD strength and put my money where my mouth is, so far I have outperformed gold. I'm counting on this to continue for the next 12 months. I see $600/oz coming soon. So, yeah, I'm shorting gold. Are you buying at $780/oz? Where is your money? If you expect gold to rise in the coming months get in. Top up if you already have some, you seem to be inferring it's a bargain right now.
I'm betting gold takes a big hit from deflationary pressures over the next 12 months, maybe more. There have been plenty of periods throughout history where fiat has out-performed gold.
Of course, the U.S. government is not going to print money and distribute it willy-nilly
Like gold, U.S. dollars have value only to the extent that they are strictly limited in supply. But the U.S. government has a technology, called a printing press (or, today, its electronic equivalent), that allows it to produce as many U.S. dollars as it wishes at essentially no cost. By increasing the number of U.S. dollars in circulation, or even by credibly threatening to do so, the U.S. government can also reduce the value of a dollar in terms of goods and services, which is equivalent to raising the prices in dollars of those goods and services. We conclude that, under a paper-money system, a determined government can always generate higher spending and hence positive inflation.
Of course, the U.S. government is not going to print money and distribute it willy-nilly (although as we will see later, there are practical policies that approximate this behavior).8 Normally, money is injected into the economy through asset purchases by the Federal Reserve. To stimulate aggregate spending when short-term interest rates have reached zero, the Fed must expand the scale of its asset purchases or, possibly, expand the menu of assets that it buys. Alternatively, the Fed could find other ways of injecting money into the system--for example, by making low-interest-rate loans to banks or cooperating with the fiscal authorities. Each method of adding money to the economy has advantages and drawbacks, both technical and economic. One important concern in practice is that calibrating the economic effects of nonstandard means of injecting money may be difficult, given our relative lack of experience with such policies. Thus, as I have stressed already, prevention of deflation remains preferable to having to cure it. If we do fall into deflation, however, we can take comfort that the logic of the printing press example must assert itself, and sufficient injections of money will ultimately always reverse a deflation.
How would gold perform in a deflationary global recession? Initially gold could come under some pressure as well but once the realization sinks in how messy deflation would be for over-indebted countries and households, its price would likely soar.
Therefore, under both scenarios - stagflation or deflationary recession - gold, gold equities and other precious metals should continue to perform better than financial assets.
The spread between Eurodollar and T-bill rates (TED) ( thanks Nick) has today fallen to its lowest levels since September 15th. Although the spread remains at elevated levels, it has fallen nearly by half from its September 24 peak. Probably a better guide to how the credit crisis is being corrected versus tracking the stock market, thus also a good guide on safe-haven gold... if you subscribe to the safe haven status of gold that is...
Cheers
................Kauri
[COLOR="Blue said:Uncle Festivus, post: 351685"]....and last one for the week......from Marc Faber.....[/COLOR]
Did Marc Faber say gold possibly at $600?
http://wallastoninvestments.com/marc-fabers-latest-rant-and-where-to-make-money
He's suggesting now is a buying opportunity, however, Marc admits he gets it wrong now and then.
I'm a subscribe to Marc's monthly market commentary. I bought into USD (AUD/USD) on Marc's suggestion. However, unlike Marc I got the timing mostly right - I bought at .83 sold 60% at .71 and have now put half of that into yen. He pulled out at the first sign of Greenback weakness at a net loss.
As Marc himself says, picking timeframes and prices - you invariably get one or the other wrong. So as a trader you need to stay reasonably flexible. But I'm not a gold buyer when I see strong deflationary pressures. At $600 I can re-evaluate, but who knows, maybe I'll then see more downside. But for now I'm betting we go down substantially and I don't see any significant upward movement for at least 12 months.
Golds getting smashed right now. High 760's on my screen. Looks like its heading down to 750. Reasons cause the USD just keeps on getting stronger.
And while the paper gold futures has fallen, the actual physical price has gone up (1142 Aus right now)
hmm interesting
where do you get the physical price from? I thought it was just the paper price then translated to our currency...
770/0.677 = 1137
physical price rises when the AUSdollar / USdollar falls..
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