Gina Rinehart

numbercruncher · 10 June 2012

I love how people in these threads to support their personal position Quickly turn on their Aussie Brothers labelling them as bludgers and the like. Advocating foreigners to take these jobs so Rinehart makes more money then they go to the immigration thread an bag boat people escaping impoverished lives as people who take Australian resources and jobs ....

Im sure I can speak for most working AUstralian if you were made redundant and have gone from 1500 a week to 200 a week on the dole you would be pretty damn keen to get back earning and supporting your family.

Seems this fact doesnt support the pro Rineharts agenda though.

very amusing reading really.

Starcraftmazter · 10 June 2012

numbercruncher said:
Im sure I can speak for most working AUstralian if you were made redundant and have gone from 1500 a week to 200 a week on the dole you would be pretty damn keen to get back earning and supporting your family.

This is what really gets me - it seems like people here simply are not aware of the concept of labour mobility. In fact I can speak a bit to this, as I have a friend who moved states so that he can work in the mines to support his family.

It absolutely is happening, and there are plenty of people looking to take up various jobs in the mining industry - the problem is that people like Gina Rinehart refuse to pay them fair wages, and want to instead import foreign labour to undercut them.

Any idea of a "labour shortage" in the mining industry is a joke. The only profession which there is definitively a shortage of are doctors - especially in rural areas, and even that's not all that bad.

To think that Australia doesn't have enough workers when unemployment is 8.2% and underemployment is a record high of 11%.

These mining companies are very happy to spend money on international flights to import foreigners, but they couldn't be arsed spending the same money on a 6 month training course for those locals who wish to learn. Not that I am implying there aren't enough skilled workers here - considering that mining employs basically nobody (1.7% of the workforce according to ABS).

A national disgrace.

Garpal Gumnut · 10 June 2012

Garpal Gumnut said:
Mate,

You have never had to employ people for a project.

There are people there, but they live in Welfare states like SA, NSW. Vic. and TAS, and prefer to go to the footy of a Saturday, rather than work.

gg

Starcraftmazter said:
If you need labour from another state, then it is your responsibility as a business to seek out those workers and offer them assistance to relocate.

However from what people have posted in the other thread about migrant workers, it seems there is no shortage of people looking for work on mining sites like Roy Hill.

numbercruncher said:
I love how people in these threads to support their personal position Quickly turn on their Aussie Brothers labelling them as bludgers and the like. Advocating foreigners to take these jobs so Rinehart makes more money then they go to the immigration thread an bag boat people escaping impoverished lives as people who take Australian resources and jobs ....

Im sure I can speak for most working AUstralian if you were made redundant and have gone from 1500 a week to 200 a week on the dole you would be pretty damn keen to get back earning and supporting your family.

Seems this fact doesnt support the pro Rineharts agenda though.

very amusing reading really.

I stand by my comments.

You can lead a Southerner to water, but you cannot make him or her drink.

Lazy bastards, not willing to relocate, and funded by a rich welfare system for doing bugger all.

gg

Starcraftmazter · 10 June 2012

Garpal Gumnut said:
Lazy bastards, not willing to relocate, and funded by a rich welfare system for doing bugger all.

What proof do you have of this?

And one more point I'd like to make is that Australia is greatly hurt by this. Once mining is over, these foreign workers would have gained citizenship and be on welfare for the rest of their lives - and at no point in time did they provide a benefit to our economy.

The government would get far more tax receipts if local labour was hired for fair wages, it would also have to pay less welfare money, and there would be less people in the country to bid up asset prices and put further pressure on inadequate infrastructure.

There is simply no benefit to this for anyone - the only people who benefit are billionaires like Gina Rinehart who are selling out our future. Dirty rotten bastards - they should be put in prison for the rest of their worthless lives and their money given back to the Australian people to whom it rightfully belongs, through a universal citizen dividend.

numbercruncher · 10 June 2012

Garpal Gumnut said:
I stand by my comments.

You can lead a Southerner to water, but you cannot make him or her drink.

Lazy bastards, not willing to relocate, and funded by a rich welfare system for doing bugger all.

gg

No need to relocate - fly in fly out - I spent most of last year doing exactly that (not to mines though), easy peezy millions of people have mobile careers anyway. Thousands do it to mines now and thousands are well trained and qualified waiting for an opportunity

Its 100pc about more ca$h for Rinehart no matter how lazy you want to try paint an entire workforce/race/culture.

We do respect your opinion but it isnt really standing as credible in my opinion.

If you feel that way about a handful of people on the Dole, I would hate to think how you feel about the millions extracting aged pensions every week for the rest of their lives because they didnt budget and squandered their money instead of saving.

Garpal Gumnut · 10 June 2012

Starcraftmazter said:
There is simply no benefit to this for anyone - the only people who benefit are billionaires like Gina Rinehart who are selling out our future. Dirty rotten bastards - they should be put in prison for the rest of their worthless lives and their money given back to the Australian people to whom it rightfully belongs, through a universal citizen dividend.

Mate,

I'll dip out of this conversation, logic and argument may be less useful for you than therapy.

gg

basilio · 10 June 2012

Starcraftmazter said:
What proof do you have of this?

There is simply no benefit to this for anyone - the only people who benefit are billionaires like Gina Rinehart who are selling out our future. Dirty rotten bastards - they should be put in prison for the rest of their worthless lives and their money given back to the Australian people to whom it rightfully belongs, through a universal citizen dividend.

Come on Star. Just mean and unnecessary.

Now if Gina was found guilty of some criminal behavior that warranted stiff fines and a substantial prison sentence - there would be no way on earth she would do time.

Interesting thought really. Would anyone here disagree with my comment ?

Starcraftmazter · 10 June 2012

Garpal Gumnut said:
Mate,

I'll dip out of this conversation, logic and argument may be less useful for you than therapy.

I'm an engineer, far more logical than most others here.

basilio · 10 June 2012

Starcraftmazter said:
I'm an engineer, far more logical than most others here.

Indeed you might be.

Just doesn't necessarily come across in some of your posts...

jank · 10 June 2012

Starcraftmazter said:
What proof do you have of this?

And one more point I'd like to make is that Australia is greatly hurt by this. Once mining is over, these foreign workers would have gained citizenship and be on welfare for the rest of their lives - and at no point in time did they provide a benefit to our economy.

.

One: If you are on a temporary visa you cannot at any point in time apply for your citizenship, its impossible. The rules dont allow it unless you are a PERMANENT resident. Go look at DIAC. The roy hill migrants will be offered temporary 457 visas, you cannot jump to citizenship from a 457 visa.

Two: There are numerous reports and statistics that state that migrants are NET contributors to the Australian economy. Remember, everyone pays tax at the end of the day.

Please use facts and read up on what you are saying rather then using pub talk

I can't believe that the mods are allowing such xenophobic talk on this forum. A lot of people are using this issue as veil for their xenophobia.

Calliope · 10 June 2012

Garpal Gumnut said:
Mate,

I'll dip out of this conversation, logic and argument may be less useful for you than therapy.

gg

About time GG. It's taken you a while to realize that responding to these provocative posters just gives the Rhinehaters further traction for their grand-standing. Like show-off children, what they hate most is being ignored.

Starcraftmazter · 10 June 2012

jank said:
One: If you are on a temporary visa you cannot at any point in time apply for your citizenship, its impossible. The rules dont allow it unless you are a PERMANENT resident. Go look at DIAC. The roy hill migrants will be offered temporary 457 visas, you cannot jump to citizenship from a 457 visa.

But they can apply for a permanent visa and gain citizenship. Your point is moot.

jank said:
Two: There are numerous reports and statistics that state that migrants are NET contributors to the Australian economy. Remember, everyone pays tax at the end of the day.

That is false.

Fact 1: Employing local labour will result in workers getting higher wages and paying more tax.

Fact 2: Local labour will most likely spend money within the local economy, while foreign labour is most likely to send money back to their relatives, not benefiting the local economy

Fact 3: Every single foreigner employed in Australia is one additional Australian on welfare or underemployed.

Fact 4: Unnecessary additional people in the country put strain on our 3rd world infrastructure, making lives worse for all and lowering transportation efficiency, thereby creating a net drag on productivity.

jank said:
Please use facts and read up on what you are saying rather then using pub talk

I don't even go to pubs.

jank said:
I can't believe that the mods are allowing such xenophobic talk on this forum. A lot of people are using this issue as veil for their xenophobia.

Xenophobia: The opinion that Australian jobs should go to Australians.

numbercruncher · 10 June 2012

Calliope said:
About time GG. It's taken you a while to realize that responding to these provocative posters just gives the Rhinehaters further traction for their grand-standing. Like show-off children, what they hate most is being ignored.

Its a nice feeling being on team justice and so far be absolutely winning this debate hands down.

You guys are obviously very very short on any hard facts to support team Rinehart/greed and resort to personal insult to detract from the subject at hand.

Only reason I would leave this thread is for lack of intelligent counter argument.

Public opinion shows us she is one of Australian societies most disliked figures - but she does have the wealth to perhaps change this perception someday.

I do believe everyone has the ability to change, but just often need help getting there.

jank · 10 June 2012

Starcraftmazter said:
But they can apply for a permanent visa and gain citizenship. Your point is moot.

Yes, they can apply but that is another process entirely thus you are incorrect. Not every temp visa holder can become a permanent resident as you have to satisfy DIAC requirements. You said they it was an automatic process that is a given that every worker would be an Australian so you are wrong. If they are standard labour's then they cannot get PR as they are not skilled. If they do get PR that means they are an engineer or a skilled worker. You cant have it both ways.

Starcraftmazter said:
Fact 1: Employing local labour will result in workers getting higher wages and paying more tax.

Fact 2: Local labour will most likely spend money within the local economy, while foreign labour is most likely to send money back to their relatives, not benefiting the local economy

Fact 3: Every single foreigner employed in Australia is one additional Australian on welfare or underemployed.

Fact 4: Unnecessary additional people in the country put strain on our 3rd world infrastructure, making lives worse for all and lowering transportation efficiency, thereby creating a net drag on productivity.

Lots of "facts" but no proof. Cant get your head out of starcraft to find them?

Starcraftmazter said:
Xenophobia: The opinion that Australian jobs should go to Australians.

Yes, a fear of foreigners, you exhibit lots of characters of that of a person who is xenophobic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobia

JTLP · 10 June 2012

What's with this non love affair of mining and the high AUD? It's brought great prosperity to this nation and propelled us light years ahead in standards of living; bringing in fantastic revenue for successive governments and putting Australia on the world stage.

As for Gina; nobody here knows her personally any slagging of Labor and co is met with 'media twists and bashing' but Rinehart is fair game?

I think people need to remember this great quote (all Australians):

it's not what your country can do for you...but what you can do for your country

Macquack · 10 June 2012

johenmo said:
The inference from this and the migrant worker thread is that the size of the person is a factor into how a person behaves.
So references to a person's weight or looks adds nothing to the debate. All it does it create an image of unbalanced rant who is more interested in personal attacks rather than dealing with facts.

You are correct, however I am sure Gina Reinhart can look after herself.

The same posters here who say you can not criticise their chosen one are the same posters who beat the crap out of Julia Gillard on other threads.

Reinhart is fair game and a broad target.

MrBurns · 10 June 2012

Macquack said:
You are correct, however I am sure Gina Reinhart can look after herself.

The same posters here who say you can not criticise their chosen one are the same posters who beat the crap out of Julia Gillard on other threads.

Reinhart is fair game and a broad target.

Rinehart has done nothing to you unlike Gillard who has blown all the money and now lumbers us with a Carbon Tax.

Rinehart is not fair game at all, she's a private individual who employs thousands, but I guess it's pointless trying to explain the bleeding obvious to someone who denigreates people for the sake of it.

If I were her I'd employ detectives to locate you then pay the Bandidos motorbike gang to pay you a visit and have a quiet word.

Garpal Gumnut · 10 June 2012

Macquack said:
You are correct, however I am sure Gina Reinhart can look after herself.

The same posters here who say you can not criticise their chosen one are the same posters who beat the crap out of Julia Gillard on other threads.

Reinhart is fair game and a broad target.

Disgraceful, Macquack, disgraceful.

The PM needs to be treated with respect.

The ABC morons, QANDA and morons in general comment on Julia Gillard's physical characteristics.

Demonising Gina R because of her physical appearance is not on.

gg

numbercruncher · 10 June 2012

MrBurns said:
If I were her I'd employ detectives to locate you then pay the Bandidos motorbike gang to pay you a visit and have a quiet word.

You need to tone the indirect threats down cowboy.

Doesnt reflect kindly on the type of person you are at all.

numbercruncher · 10 June 2012

it's not what your country can do for you...but what you can do for your country

That really doesnt fit in a thread that is partially discussing Gina giving away thousands of our job just because she has a permit to mine our minerals.

This same person supports some dodgy northern economic exclusion zone that will shaft Australia even more.

Gina Rinehart

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