Genetic Facts and Fallacies

ok - One fallacy would surely be that there is such a thing as the mating of two 100% purebreeds of any dog species.

Note how vague the definition is when it comes to quantifying this "purity"..

... "from unmixed lineage" ?? - what does that really mean? how far back? - and what penalty are you paying in inbreeding for instance?

The definition of a "purebred" in the dictionary is the following - "bred for many generations from a member of a recognized breed or strain n : a pedigreed animal of unmixed lineage". According to the AKC a purebred dog means, "the sire and dam of a dog are members of a recognized breed and that the ancestry of a dog consists of the same breed over many generations"

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I mean Queen Elizabeth is a right mixture of "breeds" for starters...

and the only reason they plot her family tree only a few generations is that the tree gets a bit errr interwoven back there a bit ... Victoria marrying her cousin etc. Still - Lizzie is ok Usually nature forgives and forgets it seems lol.

Speaking of inbreeding ... this website would have us believe that Liz in the 122nd generation down from "King Adam of Eden"

http://www.potts.net.au/tree/misc/adam.html
The descendants of Adam to Queen Elizabeth II
There are of course many lines that could be followed from Adam to Elizabeth but this one is chosen to emphasize the line of David, King of Israel. We follow Bible genealogy from Adam to Tamar, daughter of Zedekiah then we pick on Irish history to complete the lineage.

1. Adam (4004-3074)
2. Seth (3874-2962)
3. Enos (3769-2864)
4. Cainan (3679-2769)
5. Mehalaleel (3609-2714)
6. Jarad (3544-2582)
7. Enoch (3382-3017)
8. Methuselah (3317-2348)
9. Lamech (3130-2353)
10. Noah (2948-1998)
11. Shem (2448-1848)
12. Arphxd (2341-2093)
13. Salah (2306-1873)
14. Heber (2276-1812)
15. Peleg (2242-2003)
16. Reu (2212-1973)
17. Serug (2180-1950)
18. Nahor (2150-1950)
19. Terah (2121-1916)
20. Abram (Abraham)
21. Isaac
22. Jacob (Israel)
23. Judah
24. Pharez
25. Ezram
26. Aram
27. Aminadab
28. Nashon
29. Salmon
30. Boaz
31. Obed
32. Jesse
33. David King Of Israel* (1009-)
34. Solomon King Of Israel (- 969)
35. Rehaboem King H. Of Judah
36. Abijah King H. Of Judah
37. Asa King H. Of Judah
38. Jehosophat King H. Of Judah
39. Jehoram King H. Of Judah
40. Ahaziah King H. Of Judah
41. Joash King H. Of Judah
42. Uzziah (Or Asariah) King H. Of Judah (- 753)
43. Jotham King H. Of Judah
44. Ahaz King H. Of Judah
45. Hezekiah King H. Of Judah
46. Amon King H. Of Judah
47. Josiah King H. Of Judah
48. Zedekiah King H. Of Judah
49. Tamar (Tea Tephi) Queen
50. Ugaine The Great
51. Angus The Prolific
52. Fiachra King Of Scots
53. Fergus I King Of Scots
54. Manius King Of Scots
55. Dornadil King Of Scots
56. Reuthar King Of Scots
57. Edera King Of Scots
58. Corbred I King Of Scots
59. Corbred II King Of Scots
60. Modha Lamha King Of Scots
61. Conaire II King Of Scots
62. Corbrad Dalraida King Of Scots
63. Eochaid (Or Etholdus) King Of Scots
64. Athirco King Of Scots
65. Finfacher King Of Scots
66. Thrinklind King Of Scots
67. Fincormach King Of Scots
68. Romiach King Of Scots
69. Angus King Of Scots
70. Eochaidh King Of Scots
71. Erc (Or Erth) King Of Scots
72. Fergus The Great
73. Dangard King Of Scots
74. Govran King Of Scots
75. Aydan King Of Scots
76. Eugene King Of Scots
77. Donald
78. Ethdre King Of Scots
79. Ethafind King Of Scots
80. Ethas King Of Scots
81. Alpin King Of Scots
82. KENNETH I, K of Scots (- 859)
83. CONSTANTINE I, K of Scots (- 877)
84. DONALD II, K of Scots (- 900)
85. MALCOLM I, K of Scots (- 954)
86. KENNETH II, K of Scots (- 995)
87. MALCOLM II, K of Scots ( 954-1034)
88. Bethoc of Scotland
89. DUNCAN I, King Of Scots (-1040)
90. MALCOLM III, K of Scots (1031-1093)
91. Mary of Scotland (-1118)
92. MATILDA, C of Boulogne, Q Consort (1105-1152)
93. Mary, C of Boulogne (-1180)
94. Matilda of Boulogne (-1211)
95. Henry II, D of Brabant (1207-1248)
96. Henry III, D of Brabant (-1261)
97. MARIE of Brabant, Q Consort (1256-1321)
98. MARGARET of France, Q Consort (1275-1317)
99. Edmund, E of Kent (1301-1330)
100. Joan, L Wake (1328-1385)
101. Thomas de HOLAND, E of Kent KG (1350-1397)
102. Eleanor (I) HOLAND* (-1405)
103. Anne de MORTIMER (1390-1411)
104. Richard PLANTAGENET, D of York KG (1411-1460)
105. Edward IV King Of England (1442-1483)
106. Elizabeth of_York (1466-1503)
107. Margaret Tudor* (1489-1541)
108. James_V King of Scotland* (1512-1542)
109. Mary Stuart Queen of Scots* (1542-1587)**
110. James_I Stuart King of England (1566-1625)
111. Elizabeth Stuart (1596-1662)
112. Sophia Hanover (1630-1714)
113. George_I Hanover King of England (1660-1727)
114. George_II Hanover King of England (1683-1760)
115. Anne Hanover Princess Royal (1709-1759)
116. Caroline (1743-1787)
117. Henriette
118. Alexander of_Wurttemberg Duke (1804-1885)
119. Francis Duke of Teck (1837-1900)
120. Mary_of_Teck (May) Queen (1867-1953)
121. George_VI Windsor King of England (1895-1952)
122. Elizabeth_II Alexandra Mary Windsor Queen of England (1926-)

what was the first palindrome..

"Madam I'm Adam "

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=palindrome

seems to be a vague relevance for this stuff...

Biochemistry. a region of DNA in which the sequence of nucleotides is identical with an inverted sequence in the complementary strand: GAATTC is a palindrome of CTTAAG

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presumably is a tall blond man evolved in Oslo Norway ....
and another evolved in Bluff , NZ - but the difference was he was upside down -
then you could say that they were pal·in·drom·i·cal·ly related

(PS only Bluffing)

Post #22: That's all a great puzzle 2020 and infact I'm completely lost. Never before have I been so confused by a post. I think Queen Elizabeth and King George VI are really of German descent, but if you see men and woman as equals they may not be. There seem to be a lot of Scotsmen in there but a map dated 800 shows that most of what is Scotland now, including the capital Edinburgh, were in Northumbria, England, and part of Ireland was ruled as part of Scotland. Scotland was called Pictland.

( As we know, the true King of England is King Michael who lives in Australia. Therefore England is ruled by Australia and should have an Australian flag in the top left corner of their Union Jack.)
Don't take any notice of me though as others will see it as a great post, good luck - noi

noirua said:

Post #22: That's all a great puzzle 2020 and infact I'm completely lost. Never before have I been so confused by a post.

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noi - sorry if I confused you .
Post #22 was simpy the alleged linearity from Adam to Liz ...
believe it or not.

but you're right - I shouldn't have inferred that any of those descendants implied inbreeding (without further research anyway).

The implication that we all come from Adam and Eve would of course mean that we are all of common genetic stock.

PS I absolutely detest the term inbreeding (and we all have some probably -going back 500 years? 100 years? whatever - knowingly or not).

Just as I detest the term "racial superiority"
Anyone who believes in "racial superiority" is suffering from a pigment of the imagination.

2020hindsight said:

Just as I detest the term "racial superiority"
Anyone who believes in "racial superiority" is suffering from a figment of the imagination.

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I suppose it must be our ability to think.
Do some dogs feel they are racially superior to other dogs? Or have the right to attack at a moments notice.
A small dog up the road, about 150mm high nipped a feller in the ankle, who was laying some paving, and he stands not that much shy of 2 metres high. Bombed straight at him and got him in one. He was going to complain but his workmates all fell about laughing.

What I'm getting at is, there are different types of inbuilt
superiority and although people can think, at times they see things no better than the little dog.

i know most of these from high school biology

here go's...

T F 1. Certain acquired characteristics, such as mechanical or mathematical skill, may be inherited.

T F 2. Identical twins are always of the same sex.

T F 3. Fraternal twins are more closely related to each other than to other children in a family. fraternal = two eggs. same genetic relationship as regular siblings

T F 4. The father determines the sex of a child. sex is determined by the presence of the 'Y' chromosome...women don't have the 'Y' chromosome, so the father must provide it in order to conceive a male child

T F 5. Each parent contributes half of a child’s genetic makeup. half of the genotype, but not neccesarily half of the phenotype (physical characteristics)

T F 6. Certain drugs or alcohol can cause birth defects in the fetus.

T F 7. Colorblindness is more common in males than in females.

T F 8. A person may transmit characteristics to offspring, which he, himself does not show.

T F 9. Certain hereditary characteristics are influenced by the blood. I don't understand this.

T F 10. Identical twins are more closely related than fraternal twins.

T F 11. Certain inherited traits may be altered by the stars, moon, or planets early in development.

T F 12. Males are biologically stronger than females. I don't understand this.

T F 13. The tendency to produce twins may run in families. hereditary

T F 14. A craving for a food such as strawberries may cause a birthmark on an unborn child.

T F 15. Many of a person’s inherited traits are not apparent.

T F 16. The parent with the stronger “will-power” will contribute more to a child’s inheritance than the other parent.

T F 17. If a person loses a limb in an accident, it is likely that he or she will have a child with a missing limb. haha

T F 18. The attitude of the parents toward each other influences the emotional makeup of an unborn child.

T F 19. Children born to older parents usually lack the vitality of those born to younger parents. depends on how you define vitality

T F 20. The total number of male births exceeds female births each year.

T F 21. If a male mongrel dog mates with a pedigree (show quality) female dog, all future litters will have some characteristics from the mongrel male.

I agree entirely with Julius, even for the 'don't understand" ones, except for No2, identical twins, as they result from the splitting of a single fertilised egg, must be the same sex.

2020 said:

Anyone who believes in "racial superiority" is suffering from a pigment of the imagination

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noi - I notice you "corrected" my post from "pigment" to "figment" - I'm guessing you have spellchecker or grammar check - trouble with spellchecker is it can't detect a pun

julius said:

T F 21. If a male mongrel dog mates with a pedigree (show quality) female dog, all future litters will have some characteristics from the mongrel male.

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I disgaree with you on a few julius -
You've surely made a typo on Q2 for instance

Q18 is probably true, (why else do pregnant women sing lullabies to their stomachs lol) but nothing to do with genetics
and on Q19 and Q20.

I'm actually a bit confused about Q21 - not having any idea how "pedigree" a "pedigree" has to be. Obviously"pedigree" is and always will be about "relatives". (That's a pun btw)

To be honest, the entire question of "pedigree" gives me the creeps

noirua said:

What I'm getting at is, there are different types of inbuilt superiority and although people can think, at times they see things no better than the little dog.

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Trouble with little terriers (I'm told) is that they are the most likely to get into trouble with a snake. Different traits for different dogs as you say.

Next question ... how the hell does this catepillar know to do this ...
Attenborough - Caterpillars

yes, Q2 is supposed to be True.

Also, according to Wikipedia male births are more common than female births...

hindsight, what don't you agree with ?

Julius , Q18 - Q21 .

but Q18 , I'm just imagining that someone somewhere has done some research to prove that a baby's emotional wellbeing starts with a gentle atmosphere in the womb. (a guess in other words - and probably hard to interview the baby to find out ).

PS I'm an engineer m8

PS My answers back there on post #6 btw.

I've been thinking of tackling the hard questions like

cloning (animals? people?) ...

stem cell research (ditto) ....

even parents having siblings to save a child who would benefit from an organ donated by a sibling ....

millions of tricky questions - even for students of ethics as I understand it.

(I'm sure roland could think of some more )

PS Dawkins is prepared (I think - might be misquoting him) to entertain PROVING the missing link by "making" another Lucy.

In the meantime, staying awy from controversy ...

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070111045225AA9i7iG&show=7

How are triplets and quadrulets etc made?
we all know how twins are born but is the "process" the same as it??

Identical: Identical triplets occur in almost the same way as identical twins, but instead of the egg dividing once, one of those halves divides again to create three genetically identical babies. In the rare cases of identical quads, both halves would divide to form 4 identical babies. The Dionne quints of Canada were identical quintuplets, the only set in the world.

Fraternal: Fraternal triplets would occur if three eggs were released by the mother and each fertilized by a different sperm. The same would occur for fraternal quads if 4 eggs were released and fertilized, as well as 5 being released for quints. The chances of having spontaneous (not from IVF or fertility drugs) quads and quints isn't as common, spontaneous quints are quite rare, fraternal or otherwise.

Mixed: Higher multiples can often be a combination of identical and fraternal. The most common type of spontaneously conceived triplets are "a pair and a spare", two identical and one fraternal. Two eggs would be released by the mother and fertilized, and only one would split to form identical twins. This can occur with quadruplets, you could have 2 identical and 2 fraternal (three eggs released, one splits, this seems to be the most common of all fraternal), 2 sets of identical twins (2 eggs released, both split), or 3 identical and 1 fraternal (2 eggs released, one splits once, and then again). The same can happen with quintuplets, you could have 2 identical, 3 fraternal (which seems to be the most common of all fraternal), or any combination of identical and fraternal, although it is very rare to see more than 2 identical in a set of quints. Combinations for sextuplets and higher would be similar, although it is highly unlikely to see identicals in sextuplets and higher since almost all of them come from fertility drugs. (Although there was one case where the sextuplets were 3 identical and 3 fraternal).

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How are dog litters made? anyone know? I'm guessing fraternal in general, but occasionally identical twins?

I certainly know this to be true :-

Puppies in the same litter are only called brothers or sisters. A female dog can breed with two males and actually have a litter with some of the pups from both dads! Females have multiple eggs released when they are in heat, so any sperm can reach it from any male they mate with.

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A female dog can breed with two males and actually have a litter with some of the pups from both dads! Females have multiple eggs released when they are in heat, so any sperm can reach it from any male they mate with.

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Friends has a purebred Lassie Collie who they mated with another purebred -
and that night a giant brown Great Dane/Boxer broke into the laundry where she was kennelled.

Sure enough there were two litters - one purebred (where they were hoping for 6)
- and 6 of these brown "also-rans" ( where they didn't want to know lol) - they were the funniest mixture / assortment of earshapes / short and long hair etc.

We took one of the "also-rans" - I can tell you without hint of contradiction that he was a fantastic dog - used to count the kids asleep in their beds before he retired etc.

- twice the dog that the purebred was (IMO)
(but maybe I'm biassed lol)

2020hindsight said:

noi - I notice you "corrected" my post from "pigment" to "figment" - I'm guessing you have spellchecker or grammar check - trouble with spellchecker is it can't detect a pun

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Apologies for that 2020, I do love a "fig", good for move"ment".

2020hindsight said:

Friends has a purebred Lassie Collie who they mated with another purebred -
and that night a giant brown Great Dane/Boxer broke into the laundry where she was kennelled.

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I'm bound to upset someone but to hell with it.
Some years ago I read an article where a woman had twins and the first was white and the second black, so I suppose it happens with humans as well.
Found it! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...e_id=377839&in_page_id=1770&in_a_source=&ct=5
Maybe it didn't happen on this occasion?

But that story says it all doesn't it! twins! - in a just world they would have an equal chance in life - Great story noi.

2020hindsight said:

We took one of the "also-rans" - I can tell you without hint of contradiction that he was a fantastic dog - used to count the kids asleep in their beds before he retired etc.

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How did you know that he counted the kids?

Julia said:

How did you know that he counted the kids?

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ahh - he used to go from room to room and almost nod his head as soon as he saw the kid in bed.

btw Julia, (serious question)
what's your opinion of Shepherds and their hip problems .
Surely the answer is to introduce some "external genes" there somewhere.

Personally I would be real cautious about getting a Shepherd. - although I have a nephew who breeds them - spent many $, 000 for a male a while back - brought it out from Germany.