Well, all I can do is present facts as I see them.
If you believe you have psychiatric abilities at a distance, that is your delusion.
And if you think you can make comments like "underlying discrimination" without presenting evidence of that, and retaining any credibility in this discussion, then that is another delusion you have.
So yes, it's pointless discussing something with a person who is prepared to make accusations without substantiation and runs away when challenged.
However for the record I don't have "staunch anti gay views".
One of the best posters on this forum is gay and I value his opinions more than most.
I just believe that as parents they provide a sub optimal environment for the raising of children.
Of course there are other sub optimal environments, some worse than gay parents, but I feel no obligation to endorse those situations either.
That's your problem, you take your own opinion and the cherry picked opinions of people that agree with you are being evidence that your opinion is right.
try to learn more about confirmation bias, and learn how to avoid it, until then I am done.
I'm afraid confirmation bias is your is your problem too, but you are too caught up in political correctness to see it.
Your arguments are contradictory and crumble when scrutinised, but if you want your delusions and won't listen to people who have been through the experience, that really is your problem.
What specifically do you believe Katy Faust provides to the debate? If you can refer to her direct words would be good as that may help us understand why you believe she speaks for all children raised by SS parents.
Is it fair to blame SS parents if the children suffer being picked on at school because the other kids know they're from a "gay family", or is that a failing of our society to teach children to be more accepting? Would we blame the parents of a child where one parent was say in a wheel chair, or a burn victim, and the kids were teasing them over this?
It's not a cop out, over the past few days I have realised that your staunch anti gay views, are not related so much to the actual factors you say you are against, but an underlying discrimination, this leads you to seek shelter in confirmation bias and leads me to lose interest in further discussion.
At first I thought you were capable of working through the facts rationally in a dispassionate way, but I have since realised that you are not, so there is no real point discussing it.
I will give it to you that you are not as bad as Tink and Tisme, there case is outright bigotry.
“There was no guarantee that any of my Dad’s partners would be around for long, and yet I often had to obey them,” she said. “My rights and innocence were violated.”
“As children, we are not allowed to express our disagreement, pain and confusion,” Stefanowicz explained. “Most adult children from gay households do not feel safe or free to publicly express their stories and life-long challenges; they fear losing professional licenses, not obtaining employment in their chosen field, being cut off from some family members or losing whatever relationship they have with their gay parent(s). Some gay parents have threatened to leave no inheritance, if the children don’t accept their parent’s partner du jour.”
I grew up with a parent and her partnerin an atmosphere in which gay ideology was used as a tool of repression, retribution and abuse,” B.N. Klein wrote of her experience with a lesbian mother. “I have seen that children in gay households often become props to be publicly displayed to prove that gay families are just like heterosexual ones.”
Klein said she was taught that “some Jews and most Christians were stupid and hated gays and were violent,” and that homosexuals were “much more creative and artistic” because they were not repressed and were naturally more ‘feeling.’”
“I was supposed to hate everyone based on what they thought of my mother and her partner,” said Klein. “People’s accomplishments did not matter, their personal struggles did not matter, and their own histories were of no consequence. The only thing that mattered was what they thought of gays.”
“At the same time I was given the message that if I did not agree (which I did not), I was stupid and damned to a life of punishing hostility from my mother and her partner,” she recounts. “They did this with the encouragement of all their gay friends in the community and they were like a cheering squad. I was only allowed out of my room to go to school. This could go on for weeks.”
Robert Oscar …
“Had I been formally studied by same-sex parenting ‘experts’ in 1985, I would have confirmed their rosiest estimations of LGBT family life,” Lopez wrote, but then went on to argue against same-sex marriage saying that, “behind these facades of a happy ‘outcome’ lay many problems.”
He describes experiencing a great deal of sexual confusion due to the lack of a father figure in his life. He turned to a life of prostitution with older men as a teenager.
Katy Faust..
“When we institutionalize same-sex marriage,” Faust writes, “we move from permitting citizens the freedom to live as they choose, to promoting same-sex headed households. In doing so, we ignore the true nature of the outcropping of marriage.”
“Now we are normalizing a family structure where a child will always be deprived daily of one gender influence and the relationship with at least one natural parent,” she explains, “Our cultural narrative becomes one that, in essence, tells children that they have no right to the natural family structure or their biological parents, but that children simply exist for the satisfaction of adult desires.”
You have previously resorted to calling me a latent gay in an attempt to cause me anger and ignored the fact that you used gayness as a slur, and to top it off when I reciprocated you deflected rather than embraced the idea and showed some minor hostility.
I never called you gay, I suggested that you may be bisexual, because you feel like you have had to choose between men and women, you don't believe you are born with your sexuality, you believe it's a choice, I simply stated that if you truely feel it's a choice, you might not be 100% straight, there is no slur there, unlike you I don't think there is anything wrong with being gay or bisexual, so it's not a slur.
You then retorted with a statement that was designed as a slur to try and say I was gay, there wasn't any hostility from me, I am comfortable in my sexuality and could see through your statement, I knew it was just designed to offend, as nothing I have said suggests I am anything other than straight, not that it matters.
I never called you gay, I suggested that you may be bisexual, because you feel like you have had to choose between men and women, you don't believe you are born with your sexuality, you believe it's a choice, I simply stated that if you truely feel it's a choice, you might not be 100% straight, there is no slur there, unlike you I don't think there is anything wrong with being gay or bisexual, so it's not a slur.
You then retorted with a statement that was designed as a slur to try and say I was gay, there wasn't any hostility from me, I am comfortable in my sexuality and could see through your statement, I knew it was just designed to offend, as nothing I have said suggests I am anything other than straight, not that it matters.
Bigot, hateful, homophobic, anti-gay, discrimination and all the other words to shut you down.
As I have said to Syd, I am standing up for marriage, families and children.
EQUAL IS MOTHER, FATHER AND THEIR CHILD.
Homosexuals weren't the only ones singled out at the time, that was stopped.
Incest, pedophilia, infanticide, the list goes on.
Fathers and mothers are both needed, and this stems from the marriage debate and parenting.
Trying to black ban the father all the time is all part of their plan to destroy the family.
I thought you had gone ?
I don't think you are comfortable at all with your own sexuality and who ever the homosexual it is that is close too you. You are are a self consigned Joan of Arc on a crusade to save him/her and all those of his/her tribe from the evil doers who don't want society to go down your designated path. You even admit that a majority vote to oppose gay marriage will not be of consequence and the cause must go one like day light saving, australian flag and republicanism, little regard for the average person who just wants to be left alone to enjoy whatever good health and trouble frees he/she might have without having catholic guilt sprung on him at every turn.
You bang on about choice versus some abherant genome, that nobody has found, then set about gathering up individuals who practice homosexuality and galvanise them into some kind of Xmen troop with you as Professor X.
You insult your parents and your parent's parents, etc by demeaning an institution that was good enough to umbrella you and your homosexual ward and probably don't even stop to consider the impudence of doing so. Your logic is flawed insofar as you want babies to be reared by homosexuals because they offer the same child services to natural reproductive couples; the model that produces the stigmatised people in the first place.
The choice for gays to participate or not participate in your crusade has been taken away, there is no middle ground, there is no option to escape being tarred with the same brush, you (and many others) are trapping these people and corralling them into a tribe they might not like and taking away their individuality, whereby they are judged, not on their merits, but on their association and all the collusive benefits that come with that; of course you would argue this is a must because of the poor treatment metered out by the majority (strike that you will insist minority which once again defies logic).
Sounds like how a lot of HS religious families operate. non believers are to be reviled. Just think of how deeply political people view those from the other side and pass that on to their children.
I grew up with a parent and her partnerin an atmosphere in which gay ideology was used as a tool of repression, retribution and abuse,” B.N. Klein wrote of her experience with a lesbian mother. “I have seen that children in gay households often become props to be publicly displayed to prove that gay families are just like heterosexual ones.”
Klein said she was taught that “some Jews and most Christians were stupid and hated gays and were violent,” and that homosexuals were “much more creative and artistic” because they were not repressed and were naturally more ‘feeling.’”
i said I was done with discussing the topic with you.
interesting though that you continue the discussion with people who you say are more bigoted than I am.
.
Same with this comment, this is not part of the discussion which I have ceased with you, I am just responding to a comment you have directed towards me, stop directing comments at me and I will cease having to clarify and correct them.
The point really is Syd, do you think such things are good parenting for children or not, regardless of whether practised by HS's or gays ? I don't. If you don't think they are good, then you have a duty to say so without bias towards gays or HS.
Merely making excuses for one group on the basis that the others do it as well is not really acceptable logic.
I doubt if many or any heterosexuals have children to promote the heterosexual cause. There is no point, we know heterosexuals have children, they do it all the time.
Klein's experience is that she was raised largely as a mobile advertising campaign to promote the lifestyle of a small minority that she later realised that she did not subscribe to. That is pretty blatant child exploitation in my book so why should we not condemn it ? And it's a very poor reason to have children in the first place.
In what they described as the largest study of its type in the world, University of Melbourne researchers surveyed 315 same-sex parents and 500 children about their physical health and social wellbeing.
Lead researcher Doctor Simon Crouch said children raised by same-sex partners scored an average of 6 per cent higher than the general population on measures of general health and family cohesion.
"That's really a measure that looks at how well families get along, and it seems that same-sex-parent families and the children in them are getting along well, and this has positive impacts on child health," Dr Crouch said.
There were more than 33,000 families with same-sex parents living in Australia, according to the most recent Australian Bureau of Statistics census.
Dr Crouch said same-sex couples faced less pressure to fulfil traditional gender roles, which led to a more harmonious households.
"Previous research has suggested that parenting roles and work roles, and home roles within same-sex parenting families are more equitably distributed when compared to heterosexual families," he said.
"So what this means is that people take on roles that are suited to their skill sets rather than falling into those gender stereotypes, which is mum staying home and looking after the kids and dad going out to earn money.
"What this leads to is a more harmonious family unit and therefore feeding on to better health and wellbeing."
"Quite often, people talk about marriage equality in the context of family and that marriage is necessary to raise children in the right environment, and that you need a mother and a father to be able to do that, and therefore marriage should be restricted to male and female couples," Dr Crouch said.
"I think what the study suggests in that context is that actually children can be brought up in many different family contexts, and it shouldn't be a barrier to marriage equality."
In January, researchers from the Columbia Law School examined 76 studies published after 1985 and found that only four of them concluded that children raised by gay couples faced additional adversity as a result of having same-sex parents. To be considered, each of the studies had to meet established guidelines that accounted for credibility and relevance.
It’s also worth noting that the American Academy of Pediatrics supports all different kinds of parents that provide children with a stable home.
Gay parents are a huge resource for kids awaiting adoption, particularly the neediest cases. In October 2011, the Evan B. Donaldson Adoption Institute found that 60 percent of gay and lesbian adoptive parents adopt across races, which is important because minority kids have a tougher time getting out of the foster system. And 25 percent of kids placed with adoptive gay and lesbian parents were older than 3 — also a tough age range to adopt. More than half of the kids had special needs.
A 2007 report by the Urban Institute found that more than half of gay men and 41 percent of lesbians in the United States would like to adopt. That's a huge number of potential parents, far dwarfing the more than 100,000 adoptable kids stuck in foster care today.
3. They foster tolerance
Here's an advantage straight from the horse's mouth: Kids raised by gay and lesbian parents say their upbringing taught them open-mindedness and empathy.
In a 2007 study published in the American Journal of Orthopsychiatry, Clark University's Goldberg interviewed 46 adults who grew up with at least one gay parent. Twenty-eight of the interviewees independently mentioned that they felt their upbringing made them more tolerant and accepting.
"Men and women felt like they were free to pursue a wide range of interests," Goldberg said. "Nobody was telling them, 'Oh, you can't do that, that's a boy thing,' or 'That's a girl thing.'"
57
The Australian Community Psychologist Volume 23 No 2
August 2011
© The Australian Psychological Society Ltd
Procedure
All families were contacted by email or
telephone by the research
er. They were provided
with an information letter,
detailing the purpose of
the research and were asked
if they were interested
in taking part in the study.
Limitations of this study include the lack of child participants, meaning mothers were speaking on behalf of their children. Future studies could include using child interviews and gay fathers.
In addition,
however, they also face struggles due to the
presence of heterosexism in society.
Heterosexism is defined as the
institutionalised practise of favouring
heterosexuality, based on the assumption that
heterosexuality is the only normal sexual
orientation, thus making homosexuality
abnormal (Chesir-Teran, 2003). The
manifestation of heterosexism in the
community leads to the attitude that
homosexuality is wrong which in turn fuels
much of the stigma, discrimination and
homophobic incidents directed at gays and
lesbians.
Participants
Five lesbian couples
raising children
within the greater metropolitan area of Perth,
Western Australia partic
ipated in this study (
n
=
10 total participants). Each couple was raising
one child (identified as
a person below the age
of 18 years) in their home. The number of
children in this study wa
s therefore five. Two
families also had four additional adult children
(total number of adult offspring = 8). In both of
these families, one of the adult children was also
living in the family premises at the time of the
current study. Below are brief vignettes
describing the familial structure of the
participants.
Methodology
The current study will adopt a
phenomenological methodological approach in
which the life experiences of participants and
the meanings that they attach to these
experiences is the focus of attention
So SS couples in the USA are willing to accept the discarded children from HS parents, willing to take in the minorities, including those with special needs. What does that say about the heterosexual world?
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