Gay Marriage

chode84 · 1 July 2013

Tink said:
There are plenty of things we should be dealing with more important.

I know it's a bit old, and not to be dramatic, but I'm a little sick of people using this line. More important to whom? You? A great many people happen to think this is extremely important being that it currently discriminates against a proportion of the population. I'm sure a debate over whether Aborigines should get the vote back in the late fifties/early sixties had similar remarks.

Sorry, I've read this line a few times today in various comment sections and just happened to vent on here

Tink · 2 July 2013

Well its not important to our children and it discriminates against them.
They have rights.
I dont have a problem with gay people, but I have a problem with them trying to change the marraige act for the future children of this world.
I will stand by that.

The marraige act is about mum and dad loving each other and having a child and every child deserves to grow up with that thinking.

Gays can not have children on their own and until they do, the marraige act should stay as is.
I get abit sick of hearing they need to get married to save the children of this world. Sorry that doesnt wash.

The marraige act entitles them to adopt and have the full advantages of a married couple, I think the children should get a say in that too.
I think they would prefer their mother and father.

Tink · 2 July 2013

As for the Aborigines, they can tell you their own stories about all the children that couldnt find their parents and how much it affected them.
Makes a mockery of these childrens lives.

Calliope · 2 July 2013

Tink said:
The marraige act is about mum and dad loving each other and having a child and every child deserves to grow up with that thinking.

Yes. I don't think being able to get married would have saved the child from these two monsters.

Standing before an American court convicted of the most heinous of child sex crimes, the double lives of Australian citizen Mark J. Newton and his long-term boyfriend Peter Truong were laid bare.
‘‘Being a father was an honour and a privilege that amounted to the best six years of my life,’’ the American-born Newton, 42, told the court.
Moments later Newton was sentenced to 40 years in prison for sexually abusing the boy he and Truong, 36 from Queensland, had ‘‘adopted’’ after paying a Russian woman $8000 to be their surrogate in 2005.
Police believe the pair had adopted the boy ‘‘for the sole purpose of exploitation’’. The abuse began just days after his birth and over six years the couple travelled the world, offering him up for sex with at least eight men, recording the abuse and uploading the footage to an international syndicate known as the Boy Lovers Network.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/name...or-40-years-20130630-2p5da.html#ixzz2Xq6qNsDF

Julia · 2 July 2013

Tink said:
The marraige act is about mum and dad loving each other and having a child and every child deserves to grow up with that thinking.

The marraige act entitles them to adopt and have the full advantages of a married couple, I think the children should get a say in that too.
I think they would prefer their mother and father.

There's no guarantee that children will be safe in a conventional marriage. Plenty are abused by someone within that family.

stewiejp · 2 July 2013

I would say most kids who are abused are abused by a family member.

Calliope · 2 July 2013

stewiejp said:
I would say most kids who are abused are abused by a family member.

That's true, as in the case above.

sydboy007 · 2 July 2013

Calliope said:
Yes. I don't think being able to get married would have saved the child from these two monsters.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/name...or-40-years-20130630-2p5da.html#ixzz2Xq6qNsDF

View attachment 53116

If that had been a "straight" couple I'm assuming you would be advising against heterosexual marriage?

Bad people are bad people, what ever their sexuality or religion.

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to try and link those men with gay marriage. Sigh. The two issues are unrelated.

Calliope · 2 July 2013

sydboy007 said:
If that had been a "straight" couple I'm assuming you would be advising against heterosexual marriage?

I don't remember "advising" anything. Nor would I presume to advise anyone on this private matter.

Tink · 3 July 2013

Agree Calliope, interesting it took them two days to put it up on the ABC website, and neither was the father.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-...phile-ring-that-abused-trafficked-boy/4795210
Sickening to read.

I understand that Julia, but I will stand up for the children and family values.
Each parent is valuable.
Ask any child, and they would say they want their mum and dad.

I think its sad that we put down parents when there are so many happily married mums and dads with thriving children in loving homes.

Calliope · 3 July 2013

Tink said:
Agree Calliope, interesting it took them two days to put it up on the ABC website, and neither was the father.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-...phile-ring-that-abused-trafficked-boy/4795210
Sickening to read.

I understand that Julia, but I will stand up for the children and family values.
Each parent is valuable.
Ask any child, and they would say they want their mum and dad.

I think its sad that we put down parents when there are so many happily married mums and dads with thriving children in loving homes.

Tink, I have just returned from the shopping centre. It is the school holidays and there were dozens of mothers there, shopping with one, two or three children. I love to watch the interaction between the mothers and their small children especially when they are at an age where they ask questions about everything. Their bright faces and inquiring minds insist on answers. The busy (and sometimes harassed) mothers always take the time to answer their questions. For the toddlers every outing is a voyage into the unknown.

The relationship between a mother and her younger children fascinates me. The influence of the father comes in at a later stage.

DocK · 3 July 2013

Tink said:
Agree Calliope, interesting it took them two days to put it up on the ABC website, and neither was the father.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-...phile-ring-that-abused-trafficked-boy/4795210
Sickening to read.

Yes indeed, just as sickening as the very many "straight" parents who abuse and exploit their own children. The use of this case to muddy the waters of the gay marriage debate is deplorable imo.

I understand that Julia, but I will stand up for the children and family values.
Each parent is valuable.
Ask any child, and they would say they want their mum and dad.

Unsubstantiated rubbish. You are entitled to your opinion Tink, and clearly you feel strongly that children need a parent of each sex, but in reality this simply is not true. There are so many kids in this world who would be so much better off with two loving Mums or Dads, rather than the one or two parents they actually have, and I wonder if anyone has asked them how they feel? Children of gay couples have actually spoken out both for (the majority) and against being raised by a gay couple. Have you done any unbiased research on the subject, or do you just assume that your personal beliefs are the right ones?

I think its sad that we put down parents when there are so many happily married mums and dads with thriving children in loving homes.

I don't see anyone doing this. Why do you see an acceptance or approval of gay marriage as necessarily putting down straight marriage and traditional families? I don't see anyone who is pro gay marriage wanting to interfere with the rights of straight people, and I honestly struggle to understand why some people feel so threatened. I really can't see how allowing a relatively small % of the population to enjoy the same rights and privileges long held by the rest could undermine or lessen the bond I have with my husband and children. If anything, I'm saddened that some people are prevented from enjoying all aspects of life, simply because some people want to cling to a status quo based on their own beliefs.

- - - Updated - - -

Calliope said:
Tink, I have just returned from the shopping centre. It is the school holidays and there were dozens of mothers there, shopping with one, two or three children. I love to watch the interaction between the mothers and their small children especially when they are at an age where they ask questions about everything. Their bright faces and inquiring minds insist on answers. The busy (and sometimes harassed) mothers always take the time to answer their questions. For the toddlers every outing is a voyage into the unknown.

The relationship between a mother and her younger children fascinates me. The influence of the father comes in at a later stage.

You're so lucky to be living in such a Utopian area, Calliope, although I wonder why all the fathers around you are not interacting with their children until they're school age or more? I must live in a very different world to you as I regularly witness "bright and enquiring" toddlers being smacked and berated by their mothers (who don't always take the time to even notice their kids, let alone lovingly answer their every question), yet I often see actual fathers out with toddlers I can also attest that my own children were influenced by their father from the moments of their birth - I do hope I didn't get the whole parenthood thing wrong

Calliope · 3 July 2013

DocK said:
You're so lucky to be living in such a Utopian area, Calliope, although I wonder why all the fathers around you are not interacting with their children until they're school age or more?

Did I say that?

I must live in a very different world to you as I regularly witness "bright and enquiring" toddlers being smacked and berated by their mothers (who don't always take the time to even notice their kids, let alone lovingly answer their every question)

If you look for the worst in people as you do , you will always find it.

yet I often see actual fathers out with toddlers

Sarcasm!

I can also attest that my own children were influenced by their father from the moments of their birth - I do hope I didn't get the whole parenthood thing wrong

Well aren't the clever one? You obviously look for offence where none is intended. How could you read into my innocuous post that I was giving offence to you? :dunno:

Tink · 3 July 2013

DocK, seems you feel strongly for, just as I feel strongly against, and thats fine as we are both entitled to our opinions.

The questions were always brought up that changing the marraige act might open other doors, this case has come up on the front page from USA and QLD.
You dont think it should have been mentioned?
We just have to talk about how bad the straights are?

Letts · 3 July 2013

I'm curious as to why people feel the need to discriminate. For f@cks sake, we like in the 21st century. As we have evolved as a race, so has our understanding of massive human rights issues - I fail to see how, if we as a people can abolish something as abhorrent as slavery, we can still balk at the idea of two people who love each other signing a f@cking piece of paper and having that love recognized.

People who talk about the "children being affected", let me tell you, there is NO garuntee that your gender determines your worthiness and ability as a parent. Pedophilia, child rape, exploitation and abuse was rife long before the idea of loving someone who has the same genitals became openly accepted.

Knobby22 · 3 July 2013

Hate to do this to my own sex, but it is known that most abuse is done by males,
....so you could argue that a lesbian couple is far less likely to abuse a child than a straight couple, which is less likely again a male couple.

Of course a male couple would have to adopt so you would assume the checks would make abuse less likely than a straight couple in reality.

DocK · 3 July 2013

Tink said:
DocK, seems you feel strongly for, just as I feel strongly against, and thats fine as we are both entitled to our opinions.

The questions were always brought up that changing the marraige act might open other doors, this case has come up on the front page from USA and QLD.
You dont think it should have been mentioned?
We just have to talk about how bad the straights are?

I'm actually not strongly for gay marriage, I'm just strongly against discrimination and bigotry.

I'm not sure what you mean by

The questions were always brought up that changing the marraige act might open other doors, this case has come up on the front page from USA and QLD.
You dont think it should have been mentioned?

- could you be a little more clear? What questions are you referring to?

So far as this comment goes

We just have to talk about how bad the straights are?

- I'm again unsure what you're referring to? Who is talking about how bad the straights are?

DocK · 3 July 2013

Calliope said:
Did I say that?

Not precisely, but you did say

The relationship between a mother and her younger children fascinates me. The influence of the father comes in at a later stage.

which I took to mean that you thought fathers had little to do with their children when they are very young - how else could they have little influence? You can be quite cryptic, so if that isn't what you meant perhaps you could be clearer.

If you look for the worst in people as you do , you will always find it.

To the best of my knowledge you don't know me, and could have no idea whether I look for the best, worst, or couldn't care less about other people. I'm inclined to be offended by this comment, it seems a bit nasty, but I can't quite muster up the necessary emotion. You seemed to be painting a picture of perfect motherhood, where all the mothers in your shopping centre dote on their beloved children and the interactions between them are simply glorious to behold. Presumably your point is that young children require a mother, and a Dad or two simply wouldn't be as good - although, admittedly, this may be my inference due to you posting your comments on the Gay Marriage thread. It simply ain't so in the real world, and I wondered if you were aware of that.

Sarcasm!

Indeed.

Well aren't the clever one? You obviously look for offence where none is intended. How could you read into my innocuous post that I was giving offence to you? :dunno

No offence at all - I was actually going for a bit more sarcasm... I don't know what sort of world you live in, maybe it's a generational thing, but my point is that many, many fathers have far more of an influence in their children's lives, from the beginning of their lives (not later) than you seem to be giving them credit for. If I were looking for any offence at all I guess it would need to be on behalf of the many Dads who you seem to be implying have little influence over their young children. I really couldn't be bothered with this nonsense tbh - I suspect you're simply stirring for the sake of it.

Calliope · 3 July 2013

DocK said:
Presumably your point is that young children require a mother, and a Dad or two simply wouldn't be as good - although, admittedly, this may be my inference due to you posting your comments on the Gay Marriage thread

Your posts are all unfounded presumptions.

If I were looking for any offence at all I guess it would need to be on behalf of the many Dads who you seem to be implying have little influence over their young children. I really couldn't be bothered with this nonsense tbh - I suspect you're simply stirring for the sake of it.

That's a lot of garbage. I implied no such thing and you are the one obviously doing the stirring...stirring for a fight. Sorry I won't accommodate you.

I'm actually not strongly for gay marriage, I'm just strongly against discrimination and bigotry

Making unfounded accusations and abusing people who don't think like you, is the worst form of bigotry.

sydboy007 · 3 July 2013

Calliope said:
Tink, I have just returned from the shopping centre. It is the school holidays and there were dozens of mothers there, shopping with one, two or three children. I love to watch the interaction between the mothers and their small children especially when they are at an age where they ask questions about everything. Their bright faces and inquiring minds insist on answers. The busy (and sometimes harassed) mothers always take the time to answer their questions. For the toddlers every outing is a voyage into the unknown.

The relationship between a mother and her younger children fascinates me. The influence of the father comes in at a later stage.

Just wanted to know if:

* The mother child interaction is what you believe happens everywhere or if not, what ratio? Having been out to visit my brother in the western suburbs a few times I can attest that your description of parental interaction was generally NOT what I saw, and NO I wasn't looking for bad people, but it's hard to not notice a mother and or father screaming four letter words at their child / children

* At what point do you believe a father begins to influence their children.

* Could you have maybe seen a same sex couple mother interacting with her child and never have known it?

* What was the point of your post?

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