Future of $100,000 overland tourer Aussie lifestyle and the EV era

3 hound · 9 April 2022

Hi, this did not come up as previously discussed. This is a very Australian issue.

The dream a lot of Aussies have is buying a 70 series Land Cruiser and touring this great country. Toyota have announced the 70 series will go out of production and there is a current 18 month 2 year waiting list to get one new after you have paid for one. With a some almost mandatory modifications it is typical to get one on the road for around $100 000.

The things have ridiculous high resale the which is good from an investment perspective.

For most people who work for a living this is a huge investment.

Does anyone have any thoughts on gov moves to less emissions will make this a bad investment in terms of rego and fuel tax increases. If whatever gov becomes overly aggressive on emissions not many will afford to run such a vehicle. EV infrastructure I believe is basically impossible to implement over remote Australia in the near or mid term future.

Is the end of an Aussie era upon us as overlanding becomes too expensive due to disincentives caused by low emissions policy and prices.

Basically the question is are we in a fossil fuel price death spiral.

Would like opinions before laying down my life goal of getting a $100 000 overland tourer that could be too expensive to drive and have zero resale value.

sptrawler · 9 April 2022

I personally am pleased I have already done all my bush travel and am all the more appreciative of this great country, we preferred to holiday in the outback rather than the coast.
But a few things are changing the quiet solitude that once was the outback, is becoming more accessible as the road network is improved and the requirement for a super rugged 4X4 is reducing all the time.
Also a lot of remote areas are being made off limits.
The other point as you alluded to is the fossil fuel issue, whether right or wrong doesn't actually come into the debate, the push to reduce fossil fuel usage will have an effect and will be discouraged.
How that is done is yet to be seen, but I'm sure in 5 years time it will be obvious how they are going to address it. It may be a tax on emissions, a surcharge on ICE engines, bans on the use of them in metropolitan areas? Who knows but as an investment I wont be buying in, I've actually traded my Jeep and am currently waiting on an EV delivery, but I also no longer tow a van or do much in the way of outback touring, but even if we did, I think I would still be of the same opinion.
If we travel across Australia nowadays we fly and rent a car, I think that will be the way of the future, but who knows.
Pre Covid we flew from Perth to Brisbane, rented a car and drove Rockhampton, Longreach, Winton, Townsville, Cairns, then flew back to Perth.
It was a four week holiday, the car was $600, the flights $400 each, the accommodation average about $80/night, Cairns was a bit cheaper because it was a week. The holiday was a lot cheaper than towing a van from Perth and back and a lot less wear and tear, the van is o.k if it is a first time adventure, but after being over the Nullabor 16 times it doesn't change much.
It certainly is an interesting subject.

3 hound · 9 April 2022

sptrawler said:
I personally am pleased I have already done all my bush travel and am all the more appreciative of this great country, we preferred to holiday in the outback rather than the coast.
But a few things are changing the quiet solitude that once was the outback, the outback is becoming more accessible as the road network is improved and the requirement for a super rugged 4X4 is reducing all the time.
Also a lot of remote areas are being made off limits.
The other point as you alluded to is the fossil fuel issue, whether right or wrong doesn't actually come into the debate, the push to reduce fossil fuel usage will have an effect and will be discouraged. How that is done is yet to be seen, but i'm sure in 5 years time it will be obvious how they are going to address it. It may be a tax on emissions, a surcharge on ICE engines, bans on the use of them in metropolitan areas. Who knows but as an investment I wont be buying in, I've actually traded my Jeep and am currently waiting on an EV delivery, but I also no longer tow a van or do much in the way of outback touring, but even if we did, I think I would still be of the same opinion.
If we travel across Australia nowadays we fly and rent a car, I think that will be the way of the future, but who knows.
It certainly is an interesting subject.

You got it done before it's too late, good job.

As far as an interesting subject nobody in the off-road or general car community will even acknowledge it as a discussion topic.

The gurus flat refuse to entertain the question. They probably see the writing on the wall and just want to give the impression things will go forever.

sptrawler · 9 April 2022

3 hound said:
You got it done before it's too late, good job.

As far as an interesting subject nobody in the off-road or general car community will even acknowledge it as a discussion topic.

The gurus flat refuse to entertain the question. They probably see the writing on the wall and just want to give the impression things will go forever.

Everyone does, but things move on, the first time I went over the Nullarbor was in 1971 it was dirt from the W.A border to Penong.
The next time I went over was on a Kawasaki 1000, in the early 1980's before kids, the Nullarbor was sealed but a section of the Great Ocean road was unsealed, the twelve apostles was just a gravel track to a gravel carpark.
The next time not long after with the kids the carpark was bitumen, there was a restaurant and helicopter rides.
The Great Central Road is being sealed, from North Queensland through to Laverton, not only does the extra cost of fuel to run the monster truck come into it, the comfort and speed of travel comes into it.
The East and West McDonald are great, but do you need to take a monster truck to do them? the only real 4X4 challenges are the Fink river out near Hermannsburg and Palm Valley, really you could do the trip in a car and rent a 4x4 at Alice for a couple of days.

Like I said things are changing and you really have to look for 4x4 places to go these days, as they are getting fewer and fewer.
My guess is in 10 years time the only people who will have 4x4's will be mining companies and farmers and a lot of those will be E.V's.
The mines because of the shareholder pressure and farmers because as renewables get cheaper and suitable EV machinery becomes available, it will become viable for them to go off grid with power production.

3 hound · 9 April 2022

sptrawler said:
Everyone does, but things move on, the first time I went over the Nullarbor was in 1971 it was dirt from the W.A border to Penong.
The next time I went over was on a Kawasaki 1000, in the early 1980's before kids, the Nullarbor was sealed but a section of the Great Ocean road was unsealed, the twelve apostles was just a gravel track to a gravel carpark.
The next time not long after with the kids the carpark was bitumen, there was a restaurant and helicopter rides.
The Great Central Road is being sealed, from North Queensland through to Laverton, not only does the extra cost of fuel to run the monster truck come into it, the comfort and speed of travel comes into it.
The East and West McDonald are great, but do you need to take a monster truck to do them? the only real 4X4 challenges are the Fink river out near Hermannsburg and Palm Valley, really you could do the trip in a car and rent a 4x4 at Alice for a couple of days.

Like I said things are changing and you really have to look for 4x4 places to go these days, as they are getting fewer and fewer.
My guess is in 10 years time the only people who will have 4x4's will be mining companies and farmers and a lot of those will be E.V's.
The mines because of the shareholder pressure and farmers because as renewables get cheaper and suitable EV machinery becomes available, it will become viable for them to go off grid with power production.

Holy crap, the way you describe the bush in 10 years time sounds horrible.

Excellent points tho, now may not be the cleverest time to sink $100 000+ into the beast I spent my whole life dreaming about.

sptrawler · 9 April 2022

3 hound said:
Holy crap, the way you describe the bush in 10 years time sounds horrible.

Excellent points tho, now may not be the cleverest time to sink $100 000+ into the beast I spent my whole life dreaming about.

Well it's your dream and if you really want to do it you only live once, but IMO don't think of it as an investment, think of it as money your willing to lose on enjoyment.
There are a lot of things in life that don't make financial sense, but if it is money you can afford to lose, who cares, we are a long time dead.
I've still got a motorbike that everyone tells me to get rid of, well stuff them, they can sell it, burn it do what they like with it, when I'm gone.

3 hound · 9 April 2022

sptrawler said:
Well it's your dream and if you really want to do it you only live once, but IMO don't think of it as an investment, think of it as money your willing to lose on enjoyment.
There are a lot of things in life that don't make financial sense, but if it is money you can afford to lose, who cares, we are a long time dead.
I've still got a motorbike that everyone tells me to get rid of, well stuff them, they can sell it, burn it do what they like with it, when I'm gone.

True that, I want to be financially responsible but not to the point I see old guys that have worked so long and hard to get the things they want in life but are so old, tired, sick and immobile they can't do what they spent their life trying to achieve or look completely ridiculous trying

There is a happy medium somewhere.

sptrawler · 9 April 2022

3 hound said:
True that, I want to be financially responsible but not to the point I see old guys that have worked so long and hard to get the things they want in life but are so old, tired, sick and immobile they can't do what they spent their life trying to achieve or look completely ridiculous trying

There is a happy medium somewhere.

That's the one, life is a compromise and nothing is forever.

SirRumpole · 9 April 2022

3 hound said:
Holy crap, the way you describe the bush in 10 years time sounds horrible.

Excellent points tho, now may not be the cleverest time to sink $100 000+ into the beast I spent my whole life dreaming about.

Maybe you could rent a 4WD for the purpose if you have a lazy $100k, you would have some left over.

macca · 9 April 2022

3 hound said:
True that, I want to be financially responsible but not to the point I see old guys that have worked so long and hard to get the things they want in life but are so old, tired, sick and immobile they can't do what they spent their life trying to achieve or look completely ridiculous trying

There is a happy medium somewhere.

I started cruising around when I was 60ish, been to most places that you have heard of and I am so glad that I started then as it takes a while if you are still working

I do see very old folk struggling to achieve the BIg Lap and they have left it too late IMO but I admire their determination.

Most still get there by limiting their daily travel, resting then going again, usually about 250 - 300k then stop for a few days, happy hour makes it all worth while they reckon.

If it takes a year so what, as long as we make it or die trying.

I have had a Prado since 2015 but if I was just starting now, I would still do it all again, I can't take it with me so I will do what I want to do.

Smurf1976 · 10 April 2022

sptrawler said:
Like I said things are changing and you really have to look for 4x4 places to go these days, as they are getting fewer and fewer.

As I'm sure you're well aware but I've had to point out to quite a few, literally any roadworthy car can be driven from Sydney to Perth then up the coast without any difficulty whatsoever.

The need for 4WD is far less than it used to be.

sptrawler · 10 April 2022

Smurf1976 said:
As I'm sure you're well aware but I've had to point out to quite a few, literally any roadworthy car can be driven from Sydney to Perth then up the coast without any difficulty whatsoever.

The need for 4WD is far less than it used to be.

In regional power stations, that serviced all the country towns off the main grid in W.A, back in the 1980's we used XF Falcons panel vans and utes. A huge amount of the coverage areas was dirt roads e.g Marble Bar, Nullagine, Gascoyne Junction, Wiluna and there was never a need to use a 4x4, several did regular trips from Carnarvon across to Meekatharra past Mt Augustus in the XF's.
In 1992 I took the 4 kids to Uluru on the Great Central Road in an EA Fairmont, there are very few tourist spots that aren't accessible by a two wheel drive vehicle, all I would recommend is people carry two complete spare tyres.
On the EA Falcon I made a tyre mount to fit on the tow bar, also when doing trips on fairly remote roads like the Great Central used to be, drop in at the police station and tell them your plans, then when you get to destination report in at that station to confirm your arrival or carry an epirb.
If you want to do something like the Simpson Desert, Canning Stock route, Cape York telegraph track or the Anne Beadell Hwy, then a 4x4 will be required, but trips like those take planning and special preparation, but most other places renting a 4x4 at the destination would be a lot cheaper. Even something like cape York, from W.A return flight to Cairns and a tour or rent a 4x4 would be worth considering.
But like Macca said you can do the whole bucket list in one go, but it would take some time and planning, then I would definitely buy a 4x4.

3 hound · 10 April 2022

sptrawler said:
In regional power stations, that serviced all the country towns off the main grid in W.A, back in the 1980's we used XF Falcons panel vans and utes. A huge amount of the coverage areas was dirt roads e.g Marble Bar, Nullagine, Gascoyne Junction, Wiluna and there was never a need to use a 4x4, several did regular trips from Carnarvon across to Meekatharra past Mt Augustus in the XF's.
In 1992 I took the 4 kids to Uluru on the Great Central Road in an EA Fairmont, there are very few tourist spots that aren't accessible by a two wheel drive vehicle, all I would recommend is people carry two complete spare tyres.
On the EA Falcon I made a tyre mount to fit on the tow bar, also when doing trips on fairly remote roads like the Great Central used to be, drop in at the police station and tell them your plans, then when you get to destination report in at that station to confirm your arrival or carry an epirb.

4wd is insurance like carrying a winch or a spare tyre. You might never use it but when you need it and you don't have it you could be in a lot of strife.

Where I go

macca · 10 April 2022

3 hound said:
4wd is insurance like carrying a winch or a spare tyre. You might never use it but when you need it and you don't have it you could be in a lot of strife.

Where I go

It also depends if you have company or not, if there is another vehicle then it is safer as one can go for parts or help if really bad.

I go completely by myself, just me in my Prado, so I chose a 4x4 in the hope that I would not get bogged somewhere or break something that is built for the black stuff.

I have just got through a number of bulldust holes on highways because of 4x4, when I was going from Hells Gate to Borroloola there was bull dust hole that trapped a road train.

I stayed the night and they said to wait until 9.00 am as they were flooding it with enough water to bind it together, it was like driving on plasticine, a really weird feeling, car wallowing around but they had the grader there for when people got stuck.

I was off the Oodnadatta track at the Old Peake Station ruins (19k) when I dropped into a "small gutter" which ran straight across the road.

It was deeper than it was wide and I still have the dents in the bash plates under the motor to prove it, low range and Idle up, climbed out no probs.

But, if I didn't have a 4by I would not be 19ks into the bush would I

sptrawler · 10 April 2022

3 hound said:
4wd is insurance like carrying a winch or a spare tyre. You might never use it but when you need it and you don't have it you could be in a lot of strife.

Where I go

I always carried a manual winch and snatch block, then you could attach it anywhere, front, back, side etc, I never bothered with a bar mounted electric winch, too heavy, and limited in their operation, you can use extra pulleys but I always found it easier just to carry a manual one, didn't look as cool and hard ass though. ?
A 1.6 ton tirfor with cable, can be picked up off gumtree for a couple of hundred bucks usually, I only used mine 3 times in 20 odd years.

Also with the electric winch being in all the weather at the front of the vehicle and seldom being used, there is nothing funnier than Mr cool jumping out to offer assistance with his $3,000 electric winch, that has never been used and it is either frozen or has an electrical problem and doesn't work. That happens a lot especially in the outback, not so much with the beach guys because they are forever using them, 200series LC's bog very easily due to the weight.

qldfrog · 18 May 2022

sptrawler said:
I personally am pleased I have already done all my bush travel and am all the more appreciative of this great country, we preferred to holiday in the outback rather than the coast.
But a few things are changing the quiet solitude that once was the outback, is becoming more accessible as the road network is improved and the requirement for a super rugged 4X4 is reducing all the time.
Also a lot of remote areas are being made off limits.
The other point as you alluded to is the fossil fuel issue, whether right or wrong doesn't actually come into the debate, the push to reduce fossil fuel usage will have an effect and will be discouraged.
How that is done is yet to be seen, but I'm sure in 5 years time it will be obvious how they are going to address it. It may be a tax on emissions, a surcharge on ICE engines, bans on the use of them in metropolitan areas? Who knows but as an investment I wont be buying in, I've actually traded my Jeep and am currently waiting on an EV delivery, but I also no longer tow a van or do much in the way of outback touring, but even if we did, I think I would still be of the same opinion.
If we travel across Australia nowadays we fly and rent a car, I think that will be the way of the future, but who knows.
Pre Covid we flew from Perth to Brisbane, rented a car and drove Rockhampton, Longreach, Winton, Townsville, Cairns, then flew back to Perth.
It was a four week holiday, the car was $600, the flights $400 each, the accommodation average about $80/night, Cairns was a bit cheaper because it was a week. The holiday was a lot cheaper than towing a van from Perth and back and a lot less wear and tear, the van is o.k if it is a first time adventure, but after being over the Nullabor 16 times it doesn't change much.
It certainly is an interesting subject.

Post covid, car rental and flight are MUCH more expensive.
The Reset is taking place like it or not and one aim is to remove travel for the commoners ,Reset is designed on European style infrastructure..train ,city living,short distance.
get a VR helmet....
Australia with its spare population on huge distance is not suited at all..
I would not put 100k in a tourer,too risky unless you buy and sell ASAP.

3 hound · 18 May 2022

qldfrog said:
unless you buy and sell ASAP.

ASAP means you buy now and some time between one & two years later you take delivery of your purchase.

qldfrog · 18 May 2022

3 hound said:
ASAP means you buy now and some time between one & two years later you take delivery of your purchase.

Basically yes: buy do your round Australia and sell.
do not get attached and sell it in 10y when big 4wd or diesel will be rationed or forbidden in some green voting shire.
You have a limited time left to travel that way, use it if you can but do not delay.if Labour is on, expect more places inaccessible to white man, more no go area and more km taxes, fuel and size restrictions and costs.
If LNP, will be same but slower to be established..

Mohammed Hazabig'un · 18 May 2022

While the LandCruiser is considered one of the better vehicles of all time, hence the re sale value, Toyota aren't what they used to be sadly, just check the recalls. Future resale value may change.
The Patrol is supposed to be reasonable, the only Nissan anyone should be seen in. Is it Petrol?

Toyota - the official vehicle of ISIS. And Toyota convienently doesn't know where ISIS got all those brand new Hiluxs from lol

3 hound · 18 May 2022

qldfrog said:
Basically yes: buy do your round Australia and sell.
do not get attached and sell it in 10y when big 4wd or diesel will be rationed or forbidden in some green voting shire.
You have a limited time left to travel that way, use it if you can but do not delay.if Labour is on, expect more places inaccessible to white man, more no go area and more km taxes, fuel and size restrictions and costs.
If LNP, will be same but slower to be established..

Depressing AF.

Future of $100,000 overland tourer Aussie lifestyle and the EV era

3 hound

sptrawler

3 hound

sptrawler

3 hound

sptrawler

3 hound

sptrawler

SirRumpole

macca

Smurf1976

sptrawler

3 hound

macca

sptrawler

qldfrog

3 hound

qldfrog

Mohammed Hazabig'un

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