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To Medicowallet and Billyb,
Please go to page 18 of this thread and watch the videos in post number #350. I have posted a video called "FIRE WATER: Australia's Industrial Fluoridation Disgrace" (which is broken up into 9 parts)
There are Professors, Doctors, people who have Masters degrees and so forth in human anatomy that appear in this video. Are they all "brain washed" or "conspiracy theorists" or "crackpots"? I guess you can only try to show people so much and they must decide for themselves.
Look, if you want to drink a industrial waste product (Incitec Pivot - Geelong plant, fertilizer waste product) that is "beneficial for your teeth", go for it. I don't and l don't have that choice without spending something in the order of around $1000. If countries like Norway, Finland, Denmark, Belgium, France, Austria, Netherlands, Japan DO NOT fluoridate their water and have the same rates of tooth decay, can you please explain to me what the benefit of drinking fluoridated water is??
Medicowallet and Billyb, can you please show me evidence that Fluoridated water has actually helped prevent tooth decay?? It's time for YOU to provide ME with evidence!
I have already addressed the flawed graph.
And the "documentary" written by a 25 year old boy who has no qualifications in the field.
I also know many professionals (professors in anatomy and dentistry) who love their fluoridated water and brush at least 3 times daily. Guess they are just crackpots eh? Either that or they actually look at the evidence in their field.
I have also posted peer reviewed journals showing tooth decay prevention effects, and also links to the WHO fluoride statement showing tooth decay presentation.
Where are your published conspiracy theory results?
figure 1When the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) nominated water fluoridation as one of the top 10 public health achievements of the 20th century, it published a graph (see Figure 1), which showed the reduction of cavities in US children coupled with the increase in water systems that have been fluoridated since the 1960's. The CDC referred to the graph with the statement:
....
PLEASE, stop this childish behavior and wake up.....
I said it before and I'll say it again. Intelligent, non-biased people will not rely on one source or one summarised graph to tell them the facts, they will go out and have a read of a large sample of the available research and make up their own mind.
If you do this and you do it properly with an open mind, you may be surprised.
There used to be a time when Professor Paul Connett preferred to just teach environmental chemistry and toxicology at St Lawrence University in New York and never paid any heed to the hot fluoride debate going on.
But it had to change one day when his wife gave him some research papers along with a cup of tea. After reading those papers, he realized the gravity of the issue. He was shocked to know that how incredibly low fluoride is in mother’s milk as if it was necessary for children’s teeth then it should have been there in mother’s milk which is as low as 0.004 parts per million.
Showing his great belief and respect for nature’s chemistry and biochemistry, he added, “I had succumbed to the prevailing nonsense in the States that the people against fluoride were a bunch of crazies, and many people fear to get involved in the anti-fluoride movement because they don’t want to be tagged as loonies”.
Professor Connett, the writer of “The Case Against Fluoride: How Hazardous Waste Ended Up in Our Drinking Water and the Bad Science and Powerful Politics” stated that there is hardly any difference between fluoridated countries and non-fluoridated countries and the evidence related to reduction of dental caries is weak in itself.
He blames it all on political hegemony and says that it’s his 14 years of frustration which made him write this book.
....
figure 1
"as a result [of water fluoridation], dental caries declined precipitously during the second half of the 20th century."
However, what the CDC failed to mention is that similar declines in tooth decay have occurred in virtually every western country, most of which do not fluoridate water (see Figure 2).
1) CDC....What....You have access to better data,references, graphs, than the CDC...LOL
2) Doesn't matter who did [came up with the idea for] the doco. It's the 'references' in the doco that matter. So a 12 year old is smarter than someone with a Doctorate/Masters etc etc..LOL. Can you really see someone with a Doctorate/Masters really putting their reputation on the line for BS? No, l can't either... Would you really study for 3-5 YEARS then do ANOTHER 3-5 years and put it all down the drain? Honestly, would you? No, l thought not. So, why would they? And how many people put their reputation on the line in that video, l would say no fewer than 5 people with doctorates/Masters/PH D's. More than you and BillyB.
Lets see, "Please drink my waste product from a fertilizer plant, it'll strengthen the enamel/prevent decayed/missing teeth"...LOL....or....."we'll buy it [Fluoride] from Belgium where they don't Fluoridate their water.
PLEASE, stop this childish behavior and wake up.....
Is that why in the USA they are DECREASING the amount of FLUORIDE they add to the water then? l'm just trying to put 2 and 2 together mate.
Then again, he's probably wrong on that front too and so am l......
1. Where are the underprivilaged countries on that graph? Where is the differentiation between the less well to do areas versus affluent areas, or less educated vs highly educated.. I am sorry, but a graph like that means little without an explanation of the methodology.
Just had a read through the beginnings of this thread. I feel I have posted here enough over the past 4 pages, but because I am a Dentist I feel it is my duty to at least do my best to ensure other readers here don’t read the incorrect information posted by the anti-fluoridist conspiracy theorists and believe it.
In actual fact, even oxygen is a poison at high concentrations.
If they are decreasing fluoride (note: not removing it, just reducing the concentration), then they are doing so because the latest evidence suggests optimal concentration to reduce the risk of fluorosis is about 0.7-1.0mg/L. Note they are NOT doing it because of any risk of medical diseases such as cancer or bone disease since there is no evidence of this risk.
Um, why do you have to describe your occupation with a Capital D?I feel I have posted here enough over the past 4 pages, but because I am a Dentist I feel it is my duty.....
- Clearly, Australian governments would not fluoridate water unless there was evidence to support it's effectiveness and safety.
Um, why do you have to describe your occupation with a Capital D?
Wouldn't you find it odd if we talked about Politicians, with a capital P, or Garbage Collectors with initial caps?
I'm sure we are very impressed by the fact that you are a Professional (with very much a capital P) so that you really don't have to reinforce this with the Capital D.
Nonsense. If you really believe this, then ipso facto you are also believing that all governments in Australia only make wise decisions, based on good evidence.
The facts, especially in the course of the last couple of years, are very much indicating the contrary.
To suggest that governments always act in the best interests of the people is just a joke.
I didn't realise I even did it. I apologise for my poor grammar if I'm wrong in using it. But perhaps you are reading into it a little much though, Julia.Um, why do you have to describe your occupation with a Capital D?
The facts, especially in the course of the last couple of years, are very much indicating the contrary.
There will always be a few doctors and professionals against fluoridation just like there will always be a few doctors out there who believe high salt intake has no effect on blood pressure.
Don't be swayed by them - be intelligent - look at all of the literature and form your own opinion. Do not be overly swayed by individual people (no matter what their qualifications) or any videos.
I will go with whatever the research and literature says. I am not biased!
1. Where are the underprivilaged countries on that graph? Where is the differentiation between the less well to do areas versus affluent areas, or less educated vs highly educated.. I am sorry, but a graph like that means little without an explanation of the methodology.
If they are decreasing fluoride (note: not removing it, just reducing the concentration), then they are doing so because the latest evidence suggests optimal concentration to reduce the risk of fluorosis is about 0.7-1.0mg/L. Note they are NOT doing it because of any risk of medical diseases such as cancer or bone disease since there is no evidence of this risk.
Agree it's a very misleading graph. To give Australia as an example, it differs a lot from other countries --> eg high numbers of low socioeconomic (aboriginal) communities, hot climate, poorly funded, highly dispersed public dental system and unaffordable private dental system, shortage of dentists in non-metropolitan areas, dietary differences, different oral health promotion programs and attitudes toward oral health etc etc.
Yes, it is difficult. Same type of hyped up claims about mercury in amalgam fillings - causes brain damage, Alzheimers, and all manner of things. Total rubbish unless you are inclined to scull a few grams of mercury each and every day. No I am not a health professional in any way shape or form - I simply associate with well educated people and listen to them but do not pretend that I have any of their skills or understanding.
WITH YOU!The Dunning-Kruger effect reigns supreme, Billyb.
TLR
My 2c:
That are much worst things that find thier way into our systems in this day and age. Paracetemol for example concerns me much much more. Or hows about the prescribing of antidepressant drugs by GP's? Or my personal fave, Giving children amphetamines for ADD... (now that stuff really does ruin your teeth).
I'm 29 and am already missing 2 teeth and am on my 3rd root canal as of the other day. If it wasn't for flouride in the water reckon i'd have spent $15000 on my teeth by now instead of $5000.
I wouldnt worry bout flouride... all the lead in those old pipes cancels it out
Not to do with grammar at all. I was just a bit amused about the assumed greater 'importance' usually ascribed to a word given an initial capital. But it was a silly, small thing, and I apologise for drawing attention to it.I didn't realise I even did it. I apologise for my poor grammar if I'm wrong in using it. But perhaps you are reading into it a little much though, Julia.
This is a misinterpretation of what I said. I wasn't referring to any 'facts' about fluoride. I don't doubt that it has been shown to reduce dental decay. My objection is on the basis of any government adding anything to the water supply which is not required for simply keeping that water clean, e.g. chlorine.Hmm, what facts?. Refer to my post #508. 'Facts' are not facts in a scientific debate until there is scientific research to prove it, otherwise it could just be hearsay/myth/conspiracy/opinion.
I'm 29 and am already missing 2 teeth and am on my 3rd root canal as of the other day. If it wasn't for flouride in the water reckon i'd have spent $15000 on my teeth by now instead of $5000.
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