Flood Levy - Do you agree?

Garpal Gumnut said:

It always interests me when Big Capital and the Lost Left get in to bed with one another IF.

Usually the workers miss out, labourers, artisans, traders, teachers and other working professionals.


gg

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To true

I have never seen a "political" poll on ASF, so overwhelmingly voting against an incumbent's proposed legislation, over 70% agin, to just over 20% for, with just under 10% fence sitters.

Poor Jools.

gg

Garpal Gumnut said:

I have never seen a "political" poll on ASF, so overwhelmingly voting against an incumbent's proposed legislation, over 70% agin, to just over 20% for, with just under 10% fence sitters.

Poor Jools.

gg

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I don't see any reason why the Canberrians couldn't have secret talks again with the major miners like they did with the Super Profits Resource Rent Tax. Maybe the major miners could pitch in and resolve the funding problems associated with the damage caused by the flood. Maybe their own current Force Majeure contracts are restricting them from providing any financial solution/help to rebuild infrastructure?

If Rio or BHP's railway lines in the Pilbara got hammered by a cyclone would they expect the public and/or the likes of Fortescue to pay for the restoration of rail infrastructure?

I'd hate to be a QRN shareholder now. What awful timing for a float.

My answer to the question posed by this thread is an emphatic NO.

The government has no right to impose this tax on us.

The federal labor government are incompetant and dysfunctional as evidenced by their disgraceful and dangerous home insulation scheme and their incredibly wasteful school hall building program.

And now they are demanding more money to chuck about.

It's not a bottomless pot they can constantly keep tapping they need to be held accountable for their actions. And listening to Joooolia talking at the nation like we're all ten years old makes my blood boil.

Leadership is about strong constuctive policy implementation not " give me more money and I'll spend it for you".

Watching her waddle around the recent APEC meeting talking about an offshore refugee processing centre made me feel ill.

Here's an idea Joooolia. Spend some defence dollars on a small fleet of fast patrol boats supported by aeriel surveillance and defend our nations borders like your useless red government is supposed to.

And make it abundantly clear to any vessel interdicted at our maritime border that they will be denied entry to Australian territorial waters.

Then go to APEC and tell every regional leader that's what we're going to do whether they like it or not.

Oh and for rebuilding Queensland well there needs to be some serious thought given to where we are going to rebuild. If the oceans are warming which most empirical evidence seems to point to extreme high rainfall events in la nina cycle are going to happen again.

Do we just suppose to throw a few billion dollars to rebuild on settlement points based on 1880's logic to see them washed away again in ten years time or have a total rethink before we spend the money on flood mitigation schemes and residential housing zoning approval.

Oops my bad I used think and spend money in the context of a labor governemnt.

Silly me.

Back on track to the new flood tax.

I would of preferred to have seen a government bond issuance to the general public for QLD flood relief after a comprehensive costed analysis of the urgent works to be carried out.

Not federal labor demanding another blank cheque.

If interest payments from the debentures were made tax deductible you would probably have seen a river of cash pouring into a fund from all Australians keen to help out for a two or three year term.

Just my thoughts anyways

Garpal Gumnut said:

I have never seen a "political" poll on ASF, so overwhelmingly voting against an incumbent's proposed legislation, over 70% agin, to just over 20% for, with just under 10% fence sitters.

Poor Jools.

gg

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Short Memory GG?

Take out the fence sitters from the ASF 2010 Election support poll and the result looks very similar to this flood poll....coincidental that the voters in the election poll overwhelmingly got the result wrong there too perhaps we can draw the conclusion that the flood poll result is also politically skewed.
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So_Cynical said:

Short Memory GG?

Take out the fence sitters from the ASF 2010 Election support poll and the result looks very similar to this flood poll....coincidental that the voters in the election poll overwhelmingly got the result wrong there too perhaps we can draw the conclusion that the flood poll result is also politically skewed.
~

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Sorry SC, your figures only add to my impressions, the agin on this thread is closer to 75% , way over the 59% on the election poll, the for's (ALP) are only just over the 20% and the fence sitters are closer to 6%.

Jools is not a happy camper, and she's lost her bottle, anyone who can be outsmarted by Koshie is a loser.

Many swinging voters have shifted from left to right, including me..

gg

gg

no one else prepared to talk of foreign aid??? way too touchy id say.
well asf trendsetters get this figure.by the year 2015/2016 this country will
be handing out around $8-$9b...what a complete joke.here check it out.
$4.3b this year...flood levy already paid for.simple task imo...tb

http://www.ausaid.gov.au/makediff/default.cfm

tigerboi said:

no one else prepared to talk of foreign aid??? way too touchy id say.
well asf trendsetters get this figure.by the year 2015/2016 this country will
be handing out around $8-$9b...what a complete joke.here check it out.
$4.3b this year...flood levy already paid for.simple task imo...tb

http://www.ausaid.gov.au/makediff/default.cfm

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Possibly the expenditure needs to be examined, however we have a duty to help those less fortunate than ourselves.

We are a very rich country, just not rich in political nouse and governance over spending under this mob of jackasses in power at present.

gg

So_Cynical said:

Short Memory GG?

Take out the fence sitters from the ASF 2010 Election support poll and the result looks very similar to this flood poll....coincidental that the voters in the election poll overwhelmingly got the result wrong there too perhaps we can draw the conclusion that the flood poll result is also politically skewed.
~

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So Cynical: just a simple question, if I may. Could you please tell us if you are actually completely happy with the government, and comment on the performances of Julia Gillard and Wayne Swan in particular.
Do you actually believe they have thus far wisely spent taxpayer funds?
Do you actually believe they have a credible and sustainable plan to take Australia forward?
If so, what do you consider to be the essential constituents of this plan and how will it benefit this great nation?

Do you sincerely believe that all criticism of the government and the Prime Minister and Deputy PM in particular is totally unjustified?

With thanks.

Garpal Gumnut said:

Jools is not a happy camper, and she's lost her bottle, anyone who can be outsmarted by Koshie is a loser.

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Not to mention how Neil Mitchell made total mincemeat of her in his interview.

Slightly off topic but I have an idea.

Some commentators have said that this flood levy will have a similar impact to a 25bp interest rate raise.

So, RBA instead of raising interest rates to slow the economy in good times, the govn't should raise a 'levy' and put those money away into a disaster / future fund. The 'good times' levy will apply to individual and corporates, and will have the same effect as raising interest rates economically. The difference is that the cash is retained for the future in time of need. Raising interest rates on the other hand, does no good for the country, penalises only those with debt, and gives the big banks more excuses to make more money.

It's a bit like a big dam. Store the money to prevent both flooding and drought.

skc said:

Some commentators have said that this flood levy will have a similar impact to a 25bp interest rate raise.

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Deosn't that though depend on whether they save it or spend it ?

Those with too much debt will ultimately be penalised by economic gravity in any case.

Disaster levies, medicare levies, Ansett levies, Gun levies, Superannuation surchages, they are all nonsense.

Any government should look at the most efficient taxes from which to provide it's services with provision for emergencies as they arise. Such provision could be in the form of reserves and/or a reprioritisation of spending. It is, in principal, no different to a household budget.

skc said:

Slightly off topic but I have an idea.

Some commentators have said that this flood levy will have a similar impact to a 25bp interest rate raise.

So, RBA instead of raising interest rates to slow the economy in good times, the govn't should raise a 'levy' and put those money away into a disaster / future fund. The 'good times' levy will apply to individual and corporates, and will have the same effect as raising interest rates economically. The difference is that the cash is retained for the future in time of need. Raising interest rates on the other hand, does no good for the country, penalises only those with debt, and gives the big banks more excuses to make more money.

It's a bit like a big dam. Store the money to prevent both flooding and drought.

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The difference is that a dam just sits there and does a good job with almost total certainty. If you were to somehow replace a dam with a politician, there would be flooding when it was dry and drought when it was wet.

FYI Australia already has a 'Future Fund', which was set up under the howard government.

Also, the question is: what good does allowing the government to accumulate our money actually do? We don't want them to have more of our money in good times. It would be best if they took no money whatsoever.

tigerboi said:

no one else prepared to talk of foreign aid??? way too touchy id say.
well asf trendsetters get this figure.by the year 2015/2016 this country will
be handing out around $8-$9b...what a complete joke.here check it out.
$4.3b this year...flood levy already paid for.simple task imo...tb

http://www.ausaid.gov.au/makediff/default.cfm

Click to expand...

Aye, we are the ones needing aid at the moment. Africa can give standing on it's own legs a go.

skc said:

Slightly off topic but I have an idea.

Some commentators have said that this flood levy will have a similar impact to a 25bp interest rate raise.

So, RBA instead of raising interest rates to slow the economy in good times, the govn't should raise a 'levy' and put those money away into a disaster / future fund. The 'good times' levy will apply to individual and corporates, and will have the same effect as raising interest rates economically. The difference is that the cash is retained for the future in time of need. Raising interest rates on the other hand, does no good for the country, penalises only those with debt, and gives the big banks more excuses to make more money.

It's a bit like a big dam. Store the money to prevent both flooding and drought.

Click to expand...

Brilliant idea...thought i doubt the ASF right will see it that way, i mean GG cant even take the "candy" options out of a poll and see it for what it is.

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This thread is an embarrassment to the whole forum....you people should be ashamed of yourselves....politicising a disaster relief levy.

So_Cynical said:

Brilliant idea...thought i doubt the ASF right will see it that way, i mean GG cant even take the "candy" options out of a poll and see it for what it is.

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I agree it's definitly an interesting idea ! Would the RBA and Federal Government really be able to come to the party on establishing something like this though ?

This thread is an embarrassment to the whole forum....you people should be ashamed of yourselves....politicising a disaster relief levy.

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This thread is not too bad, you must understand as soon as the Government decided to go down the levy path it was always going to become a political issue.

If you want a comparison on how embarrasing it is compared to other threads ive found on this forum ... go have a look at the "fanatical groups trying to take over the world" thread ... that thing is nothing but laughs all round. That thread reminds me of my dear old 80yr old crazy grandma who still believes the japanese are evil and trying to invade aus bless her heart

So_Cynical said:

Short Memory GG?

Take out the fence sitters from the ASF 2010 Election support poll and the result looks very similar to this flood poll....coincidental that the voters in the election poll overwhelmingly got the result wrong there too perhaps we can draw the conclusion that the flood poll result is also politically skewed.
~

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The voters in the election poll didn't get anything wrong at all. The question was: "Who do you support?" and people voted according to their views. So similarly with this poll people are answering the question: "Flood levy - Do you agree?" If you mean that the result of this poll is not representative of the larger population, well that's your opinion and you could very well be wrong.

You mean there's another point of view IF?

IFocus said:

Interesting this is a trading site yet this seemed to have been missed "Financial markets applaud Gillard’s flood package"http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/43308.html#m617796

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Taken in isolation, yes govt spending cuts and a smaller, progressive levy are much better than say more debt or a bigger levy. For many of the levied though, it's about track record and economic management credentials.

Maybe Mike Calton is right Whinger! Salute to another great Australian trait http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/socie...er-great-australian-trait-20110128-1a8an.html

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Pretty much know what to expect from Mike Carlton. How dare rich folks have an opinion on how the country should be run, despite the jobs and economic activity they create. Mike would do better to actually think on the issues they raised. As for:

..Just a few weeks ago there was a gaggle of women playwrights bitching..

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Mike is entering dangerous waters there!

Truth is, when it comes down to it, Australians will pay this levy without demur. If the Rudd/Gillard govt are copping political heat over it - they have no one to blame but themselves.

tigerboi said:

no one else prepared to talk of foreign aid??? way too touchy id say.
well asf trendsetters get this figure.by the year 2015/2016 this country will
be handing out around $8-$9b...what a complete joke.here check it out.
$4.3b this year...flood levy already paid for.simple task imo...tb

http://www.ausaid.gov.au/makediff/default.cfm

Click to expand...

Yes, I think it's ridiculous! The Labor Government has doubled the amount we used to give for foreign aid and will double this amount again in the next couple of years taking it to $8-$9b per year. They have up to now been throwing money around like there is a bottomless pit. Yes, why not open an Embassy in Ethiopia so that we can get a seat on the UN Council. I'm sure it's something that most Australians really want and well worth the money. Who cares if we just waste some tens of millions implementing their wonderful ideas - it's keeping people in work isn't it and doesn't really matter surely. (That seems to be their logic). They have been borrowing the money to fund everything and as at 4th October last year had increased the gross Federal debt to $163.152 billion.

Now we need to rebuild from the floods and there is no money! What a joke. In my opinion they could easily find the amount needed by scrapping a multitude of their ridiculous ideas, or maybe even just stopping the incredible waste that goes on in the bureaucracy.

So_Cynical said:

This thread is an embarrassment to the whole forum....you people should be ashamed of yourselves....politicising a disaster relief levy.

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You completely miss the whole point of the objections to the levy on this thread. The impost is fairly trivial and will hurt nobody. Most on the "right" that you denigrate would have donated well in excess of that amount already.

The "politicising" that you object to, is the result of the Rudd/Gillard government's abysmal record in managing projects they have initiated. Most who object to the levy do so in the almost certain knowledge that most of the money will be wasted in the same way that billions have gone down the drain already.

If you can allay our doubts on this issue feel free to do so.

So_Cynical said:

Brilliant idea...thought i doubt the ASF right will see it that way, i mean GG cant even take the "candy" options out of a poll and see it for what it is.

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This thread is an embarrassment to the whole forum....you people should be ashamed of yourselves....politicising a disaster relief levy.

Click to expand...

Ummmmmmmm ......... why do we pay taxes then? If this hopeless Government can't balance the books for a lousy 6 billion or so to rebuild flood ravaged areas what hope do we have for the 43 billion for the NBN ??? HUH ??? How is it they can project budgets for 4 years in advance but cannot tell us how much revenue they will have from the 10/11 Fiscal Year to see if there is an upspike in revenue from exports etc? HUH? How is it we can commit to spending billions of dollars on laptops in schools (which blew out by 1.2 billion) and GROCERYchoice, FUELwatch, the 2020 Summit, stimulus advertising and tax bonus payments that NEVER actually did anything??? HUH????

Not wanting to rant on here BUT wasn't this Guvmint left with a healthy SURPLUS in November 2007 when it came to power? Does anyone find it strange that we are being slugged a levy when it was not that long ago the mantra of this Govt was to borrow as much as it could on the National credit card and spend spEND SPEND like a drunken sailor on shore leave? And just like the drunken sailor now that the sun has come up and the wallet is empty, "Help me ........ I need a loan" is the cry. Pathetic.

Me thinks Joolya Gizzard is doing a wonderful job of politicising the Flood Levy all by herself without our help.

Don't get me wrong .... I am all for helping the Eastern States mob. Not just QLD. NSW and VIC flooded as well. Oh yeah ........ Carnarvon in Western Australia was damaged pretty bad too. I wonder if they will get any flood levy money?? Naaahhhh ......