ES (Sim)

prawn_86 · 19 July 2012

If we want to discuss validity of DOM can we please start another thread.

Boofis has started this thread as his journal so lets please try and keep it to that.

boofis · 19 July 2012

Trembling Hand said:
Whats your thinking behind taking a two tick profit? You are trading the smallest of small moves, not much more than random noise.

I don't appear to be real good nerves wise when I haven't taken any profit at all, but once I've got a tick or two in my favour I'm much more relaxed in my original decision to enter.

Thoughts?

Trembling Hand · 19 July 2012

boofis said:
I don't appear to be real good nerves wise when I haven't taken any profit at all, but once I've got a tick or two in my favour I'm much more relaxed in my original decision to enter.

Thoughts?

Thoughts? yeah you will lose big-time.

You are nervous because you don't know your expectancy over 100-1000 trades. But taking profit at 2 ticks may relive your nervousness but will absolutely F up your expectancy. And the end result being that over time you will become even more nervous because you crappy expectancy will lead to a slow and steady decline in your account....... at best.

Take good trades, 1 after the other, after the other for days on end, week after week, until you have numbers backing you for months on months. THEN after you have the numbers for 1000s of trades being nervous on the current trade will become irrelevant.

boofis · 19 July 2012

Trembling Hand said:
Thoughts? yeah you will lose big-time.

You are nervous because you don't know your expectancy over 100-1000 trades. But taking profit at 2 ticks may relive your nervousness but will absolutely F up your expectancy. And the end result being that over time you will become even more nervous because you crappy expectancy will lead to a slow and steady decline in your account....... at best.

Take good trades, 1 after the other, after the other for days on end, week after week, until you have numbers backing you for months on months. THEN after you have the numbers for 1000s of trades being nervous on the current trade will become irrelevant.

Duly noted.

Just to put this into practice: after building up from one contract tonight, when trading at four shall I enter with 2 contracts then double up on two ticks instead of selling out for a profit?

Or are you saying to take clean trades in the sense of buy 4 contracts on entry, sell 4 at designated longer target?

Do appreciate the heads up before blowing account up.(*albeit a theoretical blowing up. )

boofis · 19 July 2012

Also, to anyone contributing/browsing, would it be beneficial for me to post up the Summary of the session Ninja gives which shows total no. of trades, average win/loss, profit etc. ?

Joules MM1 · 19 July 2012

boofis said:
Also, to anyone contributing/browsing, would it be beneficial for me to post up the Summary of the session Ninja gives which shows total no. of trades, average win/loss, profit etc. ?

if you want to narrate the outlayer trades, yeah, good idea......you want to narrate habits......an outlayer trade that's a good swing can be as destructive (eventually) as a outlayer drawdown ........narrating them will bring up any habits youre not aware of......

Trembling Hand · 19 July 2012

boofis said:
Duly noted.

Just to put this into practice: after building up from one contract tonight, when trading at four shall I enter with 2 contracts then double up on two ticks instead of selling out for a profit?

Or are you saying to take clean trades in the sense of buy 4 contracts on entry, sell 4 at designated longer target?

Do appreciate the heads up before blowing account up.(*albeit a theoretical blowing up. )

Nah man you're trading for ticks rather than trade to take good/correct trades. Tell me have you done this,

"If I can earn 40 ticks a day I can replace my wage and be a fulltime trader. So to get 40 ticks I can trade 4 contracts at blah blah blah"

A good trade is 1:5 R:R or even 1 to 15. Thats how you become a fulltime trader. Not taking 2 ticks

boofis · 19 July 2012

Trembling Hand said:
"If I can earn 40 ticks a day I can replace my wage and be a fulltime trader. So to get 40 ticks I can trade 4 contracts at blah blah blah"

A good trade is 1:5 R:R or even 1 to 15. Thats how you become a fulltime trader. Not taking 2 ticks

Haven't done the 40 ticks thing as I know one will not get a shot in a prop shop with that limited potential.

Alright. SO, tonights scatter chart should ideally show a few closed trades that haven't moved much against me and majority longer range winning trades? And my trade frequency will decrease a bit with this yes?

Also, I remember reading somewhere you said that an individual must learn to trade the chop cause markets don't trend that much relatively speaking, so tonight I will be trying to execute real trades as defined above and if there is any chop then I shall go in with 3 or 4 tick winners.

You guys keep teaching and I'll keep listening/learning/practising and then in 10 years I will let you know how I've gone in the long run

boofis · 20 July 2012

lol lol lol, this is called a steep learning curve.

No 1. I am no longer going to trade when I am at friends places; terrible internet connection here and it's not even close to what the ES is actually doing.

boofis · 20 July 2012

Ugh, calling it a night, this sucks; slow and unrealistic.
Try again tomorrow night with real feed.

boofis · 24 July 2012

Made three stupid mistakes tonight (highlighted in red for all to see): put in an ATM bracket order but then cancelled it (to manually readjust orders) when the price was moving in my direction only to have it shoot back on me!
Argh, these are the kinds of mistakes I am thankful I can make on sim not real account.

Tried to take less trades and ride things a bit more, but did take a few small trades after I lost confidence on bigger losses.

The 1st big loss was ****eful as I was 1 tick off 2 points in my favour from entry, but I decided to let it 'play out' (based on what I don't know) and try and stand back instead of taking profits, painful.

I stuffed up the results aswell by playing around before 10:30 so no detailed report sorry as it's not indicative of anything due to just taking trades with hot keys using ATM stuff for practise/fun/something different.

Tried using new settings on the Jigsaw reconstructed tape to filter out alot of noise and was very happy with that.

Can anyone inform me as to what happened at 10:21am CT? My dom just jumped around for a bit and nothing printed? Wasn't sure whether it was my net or what?

I've been taking video of trades if it tickles anyones fancy to have a peep just send me a PM.

Trembling Hand · 24 July 2012

boofis said:
Made three stupid mistakes tonight (highlighted in red for all to see): put in an ATM bracket order but then cancelled it (to manually readjust orders) when the price was moving in my direction only to have it shoot back on me!

You don't cancel the bracket orders to adjust them. You just move them

boofis · 24 July 2012

Trembling Hand said:
You don't cancel the bracket orders to adjust them. You just move them

Right you are, one click order modification discovered and enabled.

boofis · 24 July 2012

Thought I may aswell detail my plan here to see what does/doesn't change about how I trade.

Define trend on my longer time frame chart using a simple moving average; trade with the trend. When it gets choppy (as defined by no clear trend) then stand aside or try take small tick winners.

Looking for entries on shorter time frame chart accompanied with size on the tape (for ES specifically taking note of what contracts>100 are doing (e.g. hitting bid, hitting offer, is price staying when the orders hit into or is it moving easily) and any large qty trades (1500 contracts), then move solely to DOM and try and get an entry when the price ticks against the direction I'm anticipating.

4 tick stop loss on entry and am now trying a 6 tick 1 contract sell and then go discretionary with the remaining 3 contracts (Emphasis on trying).

That's pretty much it. I look at the total contracts traded for the session at diff. price levels for a feel of s/r (This is on the DOM) and I have a prior day OHLC on the trend chart just to be aware.

Practice, practice, practice.

Trembling Hand · 24 July 2012

boofis last night the ES had a 64 tick down move in the Euro session then 64 ticks up in the US session.

Matching market to method come to mind?

boofis · 24 July 2012

Trembling Hand said:
boofis last night the ES had a 64 tick down move in the Euro session then 64 ticks up in the US session.

Matching market to method come to mind?

I think I follow the gist of what you were saying, but the crux of the matter for me at present is that I am only watching from in between 10:30 and 1 on average. I would love to, and one day I will, participate in the whole session but with other commitments I've only got a few hours to do a lot of learning.
Last night when I first logged on price was at 1339.50 went to a low around 1332 and then came back up to 1337 when I was shutting down. So 30 ticks down, 20 ticks up if I could pick absolute high and lows. I'm just trying to be realistic in setting achievable targets..?

Trembling Hand · 24 July 2012

My point being your biggest winner was 4 ticks on the most volatile night in a long time. Clearly your trade ideas are not matching the potential of the market you are being presented.

No one survives taking 4 tick max winners. You're training for failure. IMO.

CanOz · 24 July 2012

If your just learning to read the DOM, i can't see that its a problem to do this. The training from one Prop Shop reads like this:

1.) look for pulling and stacking and trade that.
2.) look for ice bergs and trade that
3.) bracket the tape and stay in the market all day, only reversing not exiting

there's more...but you get the idea.

Do you think TH, that this could limit Boofis from thinking a little longer term?

I agree the money is in the bigger moves, but this is DOM practice still....is it?

CanOz

Trembling Hand · 24 July 2012

CanOz said:
If your just learning to read the DOM, i can't see that its a problem to do this. The training from one Prop Shop reads like this:

You will never match as a retail trader what is possible with prop. Its not like you get brokerage in the cents and its not like you can drop 20g in a week and walk into your risk department and say sorry can I double up and have another 100g tomorrow.

boofis · 24 July 2012

Trembling Hand said:
My point being your biggest winner was 4 ticks on the most volatile night in a long time. Clearly your trade ideas are not matching the potential of the market you are being presented.

No one survives taking 4 tick max winners. You're training for failure. IMO.

I'm not sure that we're on the same page terminology wise: 4 ticks = 1 point, that max winner you saw from last night is 3.75 points = 15 ticks.
The group of 4 trades at 0.25 points were my one tick winners.

ES (Sim)

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