Election 2025 + Preferential Voting

[wayneL]

It seems that we are heading for a federal election sometime in April this year. The thread is for discussions on this, but also I would like to talk about our system of preferential voting which evidently very few people actually understand.

I can't count the times that people in our country have said things which indicate that they believe that if you vote for a minor party you are splitting your vote.... eg "a vote for X is actually a vote for Y". This is not true.

Indeed, people with a partial understanding believe that parties distribute preferences to suit themselves. This is also not true, as we are required to distribute our preferences as we see fit..

The Australian Electoral Commission has done an extremely piss poor job in educating the Australian public on this matter .

An actual better education is this video from Topher Field which explains precisely how our preferential system works and how the individual voter can distribute their preferences to best advantage...

Oh, and vote Libertarian Party 1.

 

[wayneL]

The only thing I would add to the video is, although it is mentioned, an emphasis that once anybody gets over 50% of the vote, it is game over.

For instance if the Libertarian party gets over 50% of the vote in an electorate (as they should), whether via primary vote or early distribution of preferences, it's a done deal.

 

[SirRumpole]

The only thing I would add to the video is, although it is mentioned, an emphasis that once anybody gets over 50% of the vote, it is game over.

For instance if the Libertarian party gets over 50% of the vote in an electorate (as they should), whether via primary vote or early distribution of preferences, it's a done deal.

I may give Libertarian a preference. What is their policy on energy ? Do they have one ?

To me, the electricity grid is the most important issue as it impacts greatly on society and the economy. I don't really care if Tommy Robinson gets out of jail or not, I just want to be able to cook my dinner and heat my water at a reasonable price.

 

[wayneL]

I may give Libertarian a preference. What is their policy on energy ? Do they have one ?

To me, the electricity grid is the most important issue as it impacts greatly on society and the economy. I don't really care if Tommy Robinson gets out of jail or not, I just want to be able to cook my dinner and heat my water at a reasonable price.

Cheap & Reliable Energy

The Libertarian Party believes in real liberal principles. The rights of the individual to their life, liberty and property ought to be protected, and ought to be especially protected from the government. Individuals should be equal before the law. The government should be small and restrained.

www.libertarians.org.au

 

[SirRumpole]

Cheap & Reliable Energy

The Libertarian Party believes in real liberal principles. The rights of the individual to their life, liberty and property ought to be protected, and ought to be especially protected from the government. Individuals should be equal before the law. The government should be small and restrained.

www.libertarians.org.au

Thanks for that, it certainly helped my decision making.

 

[wayneL]

Thanks for that, it certainly helped my decision making.

In the interests of brevity for this thread, could you pohssibly post your preferred party's energy policy for comparison?

 

[SirRumpole]

In the interests of brevity for this thread, could you pohssibly post your preferred party's energy policy for comparison?

All of them are shite as far as I'm concerned, but one is slightly less shite than the others. I'm just hoping that the Greens get booted, they are economy destroyers.

 

[wayneL]

All of them are shite as far as I'm concerned, but one is slightly less shite than the others. I'm just hoping that the Greens get booted, they are economy destroyers.

I would be interested in this less shyte policy, because I agree is one of our most pressing issues... Especially as successive governments have completely f***** it all up. None of the majors are to be trusted in this regard.

That said, it must be taken in context of an overall policy position. eg, I would not be willing to vote for an apparent coherent energy policy along with... say, Stalinism. I would prefer to huddle around a campfire eating home grown potatoes and pet chickens than endure that crap.

I will say this about the libertarian approach. In a Libertarian environment a policy is a starting point, which will absolutely evolve according to necessities. The ideological resolve of leftist parties will never change no matter how much of a failure it is... as we are currently seeing.

So I say that policy must have the freedom to evolve according to current priorities, rather than the ideological capture. As far as I can see the Libertarians are the only ones with this ability.

IOW, I think the libertarian policy is coherent, particularly when viewed on a global scale, vis a vis the actions of the major imaging economies such as India, Brazil and China.

We need not commit economic suicide because of the ideology of some party apparatchiks.

 

[SirRumpole]

I would be interested in this less shyte policy, because I agree is one of our most pressing issues... Especially as successive governments have completely f***** it all up. None of the majors are to be trusted in this regard.

That said, it must be taken in context of an overall policy position. eg, I would not be willing to vote for an apparent coherent energy policy along with... say, Stalinism. I would prefer to huddle around a campfire eating home grown potatoes and pet chickens than endure that crap.

I will say this about the libertarian approach. In a Libertarian environment a policy is a starting point, which will absolutely evolve according to necessities. The ideological resolve of leftist parties will never change no matter how much of a failure it is... as we are currently seeing.

So I say that policy must have the freedom to evolve according to current priorities, rather than the ideological capture. As far as I can see the Libertarians are the only ones with this ability.

IOW, I think the libertarian policy is coherent, particularly when viewed on a global scale, vis a vis the actions of the major imaging economies such as India, Brazil and China.

We need not commit economic suicide because of the ideology of some party apparatchiks.

Libertarianism and Stalinism are both fairly rigid ideologies, they both say its always best to do things this way (our way), and the other way is always wrong. That denies pragmatism and evidence based policies. Ideolgy has got us into a mess, I'm not sure it can get us out of it.

 

[sptrawler]

Libertarianism and Stalinism are both fairly rigid ideologies, they both say its always best to do things this way (our way), and the other way is always wrong. That denies pragmatism and evidence based policies. Ideolgy has got us into a mess, I'm not sure it can get us out of it.

That's because we haven't got any politicians with a vision, IMO they all cut and paste other countries ideas, when we are actually in a pretty unique position.

We are stuck out here, pretty well surrounded by third world economies and different cultures and are only surviving on our historical past, which we can't wait to tear down.

It will be interesting to see where it all ends up, hopefully a visionary politician rises to the fore, before our beige group of politicians send us to the wall in the name of good intent and a fruitful post political career. Lol

 

[wayneL]

Libertarianism and Stalinism are both fairly rigid ideologies, they both say its always best to do things this way (our way), and the other way is always wrong. That denies pragmatism and evidence based policies. Ideolgy has got us into a mess, I'm not sure it can get us out of it.

Agree on ideologies, obviously. And yes, what is termed libertarianism can fall into that, absolutely.

But I would point out there is scarcely any political party that doesn't fall into this trap, sometimes in contravention of their stated manifestos (and I am thinking in terms of all the major parties, Labor, Liberal and Green)

I would agree that the Libertarian Party in the USA has been completely captured by a certain ideology also. I could never vote for them.

The Libertarian party in Australia, although I do believe there are certain inflexible ideological positions which may be a deal breaker in our local context (eg their position on gun rights), are at heart a party which embraces reasonable personal liberties so long as they do not impinge on the liberties of others.

I am 100% on board with that, vis a vis, libertarianism and stalinism cannot be compared in any way whatsoever, as it is the exact opposite of the authoritarianism/totalitarianism of Stalinism, and even Laborism and Liberalism in the Australian context.

 

[sptrawler]

In the interests of brevity for this thread, could you pohssibly post your preferred party's energy policy for comparison?

Neither party have an energy policy, they both have a wish and a prayer, that's the major problem IMO.

Nuclear isn't going to happen quickly, renewables aren't going to happen quickly, the hydrogen superpower has dissapated, the made in Australia battery manufacturing has imploded.

So now, we the public, have to work out which dream can dreaming party, has the best campfire story.

It really is a sad state of affairs, when you have to decide between dumb and dumber, because neither can put forward an easily understood comprehensive policy.

Austrialia is in deep manure, until some shining light with a glimmer of intelligence breaks through IMO. Lol

Bring on the election, we can chose between vegitarian pizza, or peperoni pizza, but you can only chose pizza and both come with the same base Lol
It's a shame we have to wait so long and go through all the pantomime and theatre, before the election.

 

[wayneL]

Neither party

And this is the problem IMNTBCHO.

Australians refuse to consider our political landscape outside of two major parties.

While we do that we are f***ed.

F***ed I tell you, f***ed.

 

[SirRumpole]

Australians refuse to consider our political landscape outside of two major parties.

Greens, TEALS ? Both influential, perhaps unfortunately in some issues.

 

[sptrawler]

And this is the problem IMNTBCHO.

Australians refuse to consider our political landscape outside of two major parties.

While we do that we are f***ed.

F***ed I tell you, f***ed.

Whether one likes it or not, as Rumpy points out, there a no viable or credible alternatives.
If some person can stand up and project a vision, I'm sure they would get a following, as happened in Argenitina.
Let's be honest Albo and Dutton just show how empty the barrel is.
But Australians aren't going to vote for an unknown muppet, over a known one, that isn't the Australian way.
They would rather vote for the less unattractive known and that is why Albo will win, he isn't bald. Lol
Sad but true IMO, fortunately I don't think the situation will be the same in 20 years time.
By then the options will be much clearer and there will be much fewer options to chose from.

 

[wayneL]

Whether one likes it or not, as Rumpy points out, there a no viable or credible alternatives.
If some person can stand up and project a vision, I'm sure they would get a following, as happened in Argenitina.
Let's be honest Albo and Dutton just show how empty the barrel is.
But Australians aren't going to vote for an unknown muppet, over a known one, that isn't the Australian way.
They would rather vote for the less unattractive known and that is why Albo will win, he isn't bald. Lol
Sad but true IMO, fortunately I don't think the situation will be the same in 20 years time.
By then the options will be much clearer and there will be much fewer options to chose from.

Dunno, we do have a habit of voting in psychos in the senate, and even in the reps.

Lambie, Thorpe, Bandt, the Teal morons.... Albo.

But agree that political naivete, compulsory voting, and profound ignorance of the preferential system all conspire to make it a two horse race.

....and the betting markets don't share your confidence in the petulant champagne socialist getting over the line, slightly favouring the bald ilLiberal at this point.

Best outcome is one or another freedom party holding balance of power in the asylum, aka the Senate...

 

[SirRumpole]

I would be interested in this less shyte policy, because I agree is one of our most pressing issues... Especially as successive governments have completely f***** it all up. None of the majors are to be trusted in this regard.

That said, it must be taken in context of an overall policy position. eg, I would not be willing to vote for an apparent coherent energy policy along with... say, Stalinism. I would prefer to huddle around a campfire eating home grown potatoes and pet chickens than endure that crap.

The slightly less shyte policy imo is rollout of renewables, but it will fail unless they are prepared to build more hydro and that's a word that dare not speak its name in Australian politics.

As for Stalinism, that's a very extreme word. The fact is that government ownership of the electricity grid in the past gave us some of the lowest power prices in the world, compared to one of the highest that we have now. If you want to call government ownership of essential services Stalinism, that's up to you, I would describe it as simply the most efficient way to deliver a basic necessity.

 

[wayneL]

The slightly less shyte policy imo is rollout of renewables, but it will fail unless they are prepared to build more hydro and that's a word that dare not speak its name in Australian politics.

As for Stalinism, that's a very extreme word. The fact is that government ownership of the electricity grid in the past gave us some of the lowest power prices in the world, compared to one of the highest that we have now. If you want to call government ownership of essential services Stalinism, that's up to you, I would describe it as simply the most efficient way to deliver a basic necessity.

Renewables will not solve the energy problem here. Not as they currently exist. It's an ideological pipe dream. Additionally they don't stand up on an environmental level either. Even if they did, it is futile in the global scale, as discussed many times.

 

[SirRumpole]

Renewables will not solve the energy problem here. Not as they currently exist.

A matter of opinion. All I'll say is that it's folly to look at what may be happening in Europe and try to apply that to Australia.

Different climate, different geography, different demographics.

But I will say that the push to net zero is at the expense of the reliability and cost of our energy supplies, and this I disagree with.

 

[Dona Ferentes]

three ring circus