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East Timor

Sean K

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This country is going to be a basket case for years.

They haven't even got a sealed road that runs completely across the country and yet they're signing contracts for new patrol boats worth millions.

Healthcare? When their PM gets shot, he has to be sent to Darwin for treatment.
Law and order? Their police force is undertrained, underpaid, and corrupt.
Education and industry? What's that?
Infrastructure? Let's first build a presedential palace instead of fixing the pot holes around Dili.

And, how do you support your neighbours who are providing all your security and half your GDP. You go and buy those new patrol boats from China. WTF!

Maybe it will provide some balance into the future.



 
In the cold light of day it makes you wonder whether East Timor should have been separated from Indonesia....I have had my doubts for quite a while.
Maybe they should have been given some governmental autonomy with Indonesia being responsible for foreign policy,customs and such like.
At the time the Australian media was hardly a reliable source for balanced commentary....as usual I suppose.
 
I find it hypocritical that Australia supported the division of Indonesia and cashed in on their natural resources. (No I don't buy all the humanitarian intervention rubbish).

Now people are jumping up and down because instead of Woodside, it is a Chinese company there.

According to wikipedia Australia's economic interests in East Timor:

 
The Dutch and Portugese got it wrong. Completely. Like many colonial powers around the globe. Who divides an island that small between 2 countries? What the?

IMO, the reason East and West Timor has failed as a colonised country is because of opportunity. Neither the Dutch, nor the Portugese, or the Indonesians, took absolute power. What they should have done was take measures to control the country absolutely. They did not.

What we are left with is a State similar to all others around the world not totally controlled by a 'Western' power, or people. A potential, or failed State. A medieval State. Their 'culture' will take time to catch up, and I give them 100 years, like the rest of the SW Pacific.

For South America, maybe 50 years.

For Africa, maybe double that.

For the Middle East and Western Asia, that continue to desire Sharia, it will be an indefinate time frame, because they have frozen time.......

 
I find it hypocritical that Australia supported the division of Indonesia and cashed in on their natural resources. (No I don't buy all the humanitarian intervention rubbish)

well it was sanctioned by the UN and it was hardly the "division of indonesia", it was indonesia pulling out of a colony it annexed which is inhabited by a different race. by your logic supporting independence for east papua would be supporting the division of indonesia as well.

add to this indonesia was under military control throughout the sukarno and suharto eras so indonesia was run by a corrupt despot. human rights were routinely violated and up to 200,000 east timorese are claimed to have died as a result of the occupation (theres plenty of supporting pictures available on the web if you want to go look). seems remarkably like another story going on right now in tibet.

australia was negotiating with indonesia for access to timorese resources anyway so they just changed to negotiating with timor directly.

Now people are jumping up and down because instead of Woodside, it is a Chinese company there.

well australia did expect some economic benefit for the billions of dollars it spent providing timor with support, security and infrastructure during its independence process. as for the patrol boats, i suppose they are necessary for national security (being an island, with pirates and illegal fishermen etc. floating around everywhere) and i don't really care that they bought them from china, china probably gave a better deal. ultimately what its all about is access to resources so the companies can profit. it's a bullsh1t system but its all thats going at the moment, such is humanity.

but i am going to stand up here and say we here in australia do good work (at significant cost) to assist in promoting and maintaining the stability in our region. cambodia, timor, various pacific islands - we spend our money and risk our soldiers lives to support our neighbours having trouble. we do this firstly because regional stability is bad for everyone, secondly because it is the right thing to do and lastly because we may profit from it. we judge others by their actions as we stand by our own.
 
The Australian intervention in East Timor was always ill-advised, in my opinion. There were as many East Timorese that collaborated with the Japanese, as had helped our (left behind) troops during the war.

The issue of independence had been kept alive in the Press here because of the deaths of the Balibo Five, who were all journalists, and the action reinforced the regional Deputy Dawg role which the Howard Government had lately assumed.

The task for Indonesia in keeping its republic together is difficult enough as it is, and it is not in our longer-term strategic interests to see it unravel, let alone be perceived as helping this along.
 
The Dutch and Portugese got it wrong. Completely. Like many colonial powers around the globe. Who divides an island that small between 2 countries? What the?



kennas, australia did support a number of things in the region

they supported the division of west papua into the hands of the indonesians..

indonesia had not real foothold there it was a landgrab.. the culture and the traditional owners there have had an awful history since, and that country sits almost as close as timor, so we really have two of our closest neighbours in the region in a real mess imho..

i support the independence of the timorese, as i support the plight of the west papua traditional owners. I dont think they had any say in the loss of their country to the colonialists, as i believe the timorese had little say in their own affairs in timor.
 
disarray, maybe you can enlighten me on why East Timor owes us their natural resources in return for our questionable intervention. What do these "peacekeepers" do and what is the underlying cause? (I admit I am not an expert just very skeptical)

What are all the good things we brought them? From the current state of the regions, does not look like much.
 
... yet they're signing contracts for new patrol boats worth millions.
..
And, how do you support your neighbours who are providing all your security and half your GDP. You go and buy those new patrol boats from China. WTF
well I'm guessing the reason they're getting them from China is the same reason that Rio Tinto and FMG etc all get their wharves made in China these days , and floated down to the Pilbara ...

WTF TPOOM - "well - two for the price of one maybe"?
 
agentm,
whilst I agree with most of what you say - I don;t find much in common between East Timor (since the 1999 UN intervention) and West Papua.

At least East Timor has relative "freedom" these days yes?

PS I'd love to hear the East Timorese version of how much they were told they would get from royalties from the Timor Sea gasfields, and how much has evenuated.

PS No question we had to go in there after the election in 1999 - nuns being massacred hiding in their churches - machete wielding idiots. Even if it subsequently became the reason Osama Bin Laden quotes as justification for Aussies being bombed in Bali .

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/routledg/surviv/2001/00000043/00000001/art00009
 
disarray, maybe you can enlighten me on why East Timor owes us their natural resources in return for our questionable intervention. What do these "peacekeepers" do and what is the underlying cause? (I admit I am not an expert just very skeptical)

i didn't say they owed us anything. i said that the australian government probably assumed that, since they were financing their push for freedom, that they would be looked upon favourably for trade benefits once things settled down. of course they were incredibly nieve to think so but thats politicians and bureaucrats for you.

What are all the good things we brought them? From the current state of the regions, does not look like much.

yeah what did we do? enable them to express their desire for self-determination. waste of time and money wasn't it? ending decades of oppression, rape and murder by indonesian special forces and giving them the chance to express their opinion democratically. where's the good?
 
This country is going to be a basket case for years.
And continue to until they wipe out corruption, which I don't think they have any interest in doing.

Anyone who peaks up will get the marching orders.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Gusmao was involved.
 
And continue to until they wipe out corruption, which I don't think they have any interest in doing.

Anyone who peaks up will get the marching orders.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Gusmao was involved.

I can see it going the way of PNG. Australia will have to put lots of strings on Aid money and have Federal Police inspectors and auditors in their public service for years and years to come.
 
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