Does Gillard inspire confidence?

[Calliope]

Forums such as this are in effect becoming great think tanks and the tussell is stimulating to us both.

Sorry, but I find you more boring than stimulating.

 

[Julia]

To be fair Abbott is one of the few Australian politicians as a minister that actually made decisions based on his religious back ground fact is he has form of projecting his religious beliefs into action.

As a Minister Abbott was anti-abortion, anti-contraception, anti-IVF, anti-stem cell research and wanted to ban no-fault divorce.

You have failed to show any legislation that resulted from Tony Abbott's religious views. As TS has pointed out, he may hold these views, but they have not been translated into legislation.

The Northern Territory voluntary euthanasia legislation being overturned (sadly) was instigated by Kevin Andrews. Most probably Mr Abbott supported this, but that is the only thing you can legitimately claim.

I'm just living in eternal hope that we can have this discussion by offering legitimate comments, rather than perjorative cliches which are simply not truthful.

That said, I'll be the first to disagree with many of Mr Abbott's social views, but as long as they don't become legislation then where is the problem?

You mean those that bow before big business?
Oh that’s right Abbott shafted them with the Paid Parental Leave. The minders are the only ones advising him to keep out of trouble. And after Labors stupendous amount of spin during last election and this one, no bloody wonder.

Abbott as a person seems to be well liked by neighbors


http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/election/locals-say-that-abbott-is-right-up-our-street/story-fn5zm695-1225898197721
I would like to see Rudd have the same said about him. And Gillard well lets go back to that affair with Craig Emmerson. If Abbott is classed as a religious nut by you, then Gillard is nothing but a home wrecking wh0re. When you think about it she is basically a Godless lawyer that has proven her worth.
While I don't think much of Abbott politically he has proven himself in other areas of his life. Triathlon at his age would have taken a lot of dedication mental and intestinal fortitude. Raising 3 daughters, well liked by those around him, involved in charity events where he actually puts in physical effort on top of his participation (running, cycling).
While most of those things don't mean jack in a political sense at least it gives us more scope of what the man is made of. Bring up his religious past is only half the story. How about we bring Gillards past up for all to see.

Very fair comment, moXJO. And I don't think Labor should underestimate the number of middle class Australians who will go for Tony Abbott's personal family image as preferable to an unmarried, childless woman whose partner is a hairdresser turned real estate salesman with a DUI conviction.

I'm not saying her partner isn't a great bloke, but some voters are going to have a hard time imagining him strutting the world stage at Ms Gillard's side.

 

[Julia]

Paul Kelly with a good summery of post election may look like
"Post-election, we'll be heading for a train wreck"

As always, Paul Kelly gets it exactly right.

Peter van Onselen is onto Abbott and his spin machine.

But he made the point at the beginning of the article that he was writing it in the interests of objectivity and to demonstrate lack of political bias.
Something you could perhaps consider emulating.

You seem to think that any of us who dislike Rudd/Gillard/the Labor Machine, automatically think all to do with Abbott/Liberal Party is wonderful. Most of us are able to show more objectivity than that.
It's a bit like saying that if I declare I dislike oranges, then I love apples.
Nonsense.

 

[todster]

Do you need to be sarcastic? I asked you politely because offhand I couldn't think of anything.



In 2006 the Libs were still in power.

The Labor government hasn't exactly shown any enthusiasm for its use, given how difficult it is for doctors to obtain and prescribe it.

OK, what other decisions has he made that have been dictated by his religious beliefs?

where did you mention legislation

 

[explod]

Sorry, but I find you more boring than stimulating.

You target the person again, so much bias you do not seem to be able to help it.

Cuummmoorrn enjoy the fun and be inspired under the banner of Julia, if you are going to be miserable the next four years, what can we say.

 

[drsmith]

I do not know, but the point that comes out in my view is that you do not really know either.

Of course we could suppose that to the multinational players like BHP and RIO it would be devastating and of course the employees with that too. But for us rank and file serf's perhaps not ?

If we don't know, then it is up to the proponents of such a policy (the Greens) to explain. No policy should be supported from a position of ignorance.

BHP and RIO's employees are people too as are those who benefit indirectly from their economic activities.

 

[explod]

If we don't know, then it is up to the proponents of such a policy (the Greens) to explain. No policy should be supported from a position of ignorance.

BHP and RIO's employees are people too as are those who benefit indirectly from their economic activities.

Very good article todays Herald Sun on current Green policy, will try and post up the reference later on the election thread.

It is hard for them to get it out like all marginal fledgling parties as the majors have their fingers all over the press as the press do for all thier own ends, and that's accepted.

And of course the employees within all changes can be hard hit but a party with a wide social conscience (often referred to as socialists, wonder why) will work to resolve these issues too.

Ingnorance, interesting he he; no will hold my peace here.

 

[drsmith]

If the Greens want to exercise a major influence on the economic and social direction of this country, it's their responsibility to articulate the projected outcomes of their policies, minor party or not.

 

[IFocus]

You have failed to show any legislation that resulted from Tony Abbott's religious views. As TS has pointed out, he may hold these views, but they have not been translated into legislation.

Don't want to be pedantic but this what I said

To be fair Abbott is one of the few Australian politicians as a minister that actually made decisions based on his religious back ground fact is he has form of projecting his religious beliefs into action.

I'm just living in eternal hope that we can have this discussion by offering legitimate comments, rather than perjorative cliches which are simply not truthful.

Would that be like the shrill comments from the pro Liberals on the thread?

That said, I'll be the first to disagree with many of Mr Abbott's social views, but as long as they don't become legislation then where is the problem?

Problem is Abbott is a politician who is running for Prime Minister of Australia and I don't trust him.....ever.

His continual change in position over major issues is legendary ETS is but a minor example.

In fact I would trust Howard before Abbott.

Very fair comment, moXJO. And I don't think Labor should underestimate the number of middle class Australians who will go for Tony Abbott's personal family image as preferable to an unmarried, childless woman whose partner is a hairdresser turned real estate salesman with a DUI conviction.

I'm not saying her partner isn't a great bloke, but some voters are going to have a hard time imagining him strutting the world stage at Ms Gillard's side.

Westpoll favors Gillard slightly concerning the above

Asked if Ms Gillard's atheism made a difference to their vote, 76 per cent said it made no difference, 11 per cent said it made them more likely to vote Labor and 12 per cent said it made them more likely to vote coalition.

Mr Abbott's Catholicism made no difference to how 73 per cent of respondents would vote, while 17 per cent said it made them more likely to vote Labor and 10 per cent said it made them more likely to vote coalition.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/wa/7723522/green-vote-surges-to-record-high-westpoll/

 

[IFocus]

If the Greens want to exercise a major influence on the economic and social direction of this country, it's their responsibility to articulate the projected outcomes of their policies, minor party or not.

"Green vote surges to record high: Westpoll"

The best asset the Greens have currently is Liberal and Labor and this in WA of all places, should be a Liberal strong hold.

Disillusionment with Labor and the Liberal Party has thrust the Greens into the role of political kingmakers in WA, with the third political force attracting a record number of voters, according to the latest Westpoll.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/wa/7723522/green-vote-surges-to-record-high-westpoll/

 

[noco]

Julia Gillard may as well have written the report on the enquiry into the BER debacle herself judging by the way it was presented by a hand picked stooge of the Labor Party.

It has also been stated she removed from her web site her affiliation with the Communist and Fabian sociaist society. I wonder why?

http://blogs.news.com.au/couriermai...og_that_a_lefitst_pm_like_gillard_would_love/

 

[Calliope]

Julia Gillard may as well have written the report on the enquiry into the BER debacle herself judging by the way it was presented by a hand picked stooge of the Labor Party.

It has also been stated she removed from her web site her affiliation with the Communist and Fabian sociaist society. I wonder why?

http://blogs.news.com.au/couriermai...og_that_a_lefitst_pm_like_gillard_would_love/

There would have been a lot more complaints from principals, but Orgill refused to give them whistle blowers's anonymity. As Joh Petersen once said you don't start an inquiry unless you know the outcome.

-

the complaints are limited to those from schools, most of them state ones led by principals who might well feel it not in their interests to make a fuss - not least because the vast majority of them serve under state Labor governments.

 

[todster]

There would have been a lot more complaints from principals, but Orgill refused to give them whistle blowers's anonymity. As Joh Petersen once said you don't start an inquiry unless you know the outcome.

-

WA has a Liberal State Government,8 complaints in the state!
"Orgill a former investment banker said there had been a lot of misinformation
about the program and it absolutely should continue no matter who won the
election.
He said there had been no proof of the coalition's claims that 8 billion had been wasted,or there had been rorting

 

[drsmith]

As a proportion of finding, the WA govenment had the lowest agency, management and design fees of all the state governments.

I have not read the report in full, but does it delve into whether what was built for schools was appropriate for their individual needs ?

EDIT: Detailed project value for money and cost reviews appear somewhat incomplete.

http://www.deewr.gov.au/Department/Documents/BERIT_Interim_Report_06082010.pdf

Pages 29 and 30 and Appendix 12 (pp 82 & 83).

 

[moXJO]

I've worked on some of the BER sites and it's a massive balls up. And money is being wasted like nothing I have ever seen before. Those at the trade level are getting ripped blind in a lot of cases as well.

 

[drsmith]

The report does look very rushed.

Page 25: Factors to be considered when reviewing initial cost modelling

Results at this stage may indicate a trend but the current sample size in inadequate to make conclusive findings.

 

[todster]

I've worked on some of the BER sites and it's a massive balls up. And money is being wasted like nothing I have ever seen before. Those at the trade level are getting ripped blind in a lot of cases as well.

How about a bit of detail then on the balls up and waste and then tell me where the government fits in,more likely dirt bag east coast builders.
The local primary school is being done by John Holland and from all appearances from the outside looks to be progressing quite well with a high level of OH&S

 

[IFocus]

How about a bit of detail then on the balls up and waste and then tell me where the government fits in,more likely dirt bag east coast builders.
The local primary school is being done by John Holland and from all appearances from the outside looks to be progressing quite well with a high level of OH&S

LOL WA not only paying for the free loaders over East with our boom but their corrupt builders as well love it Todster.

 

[moXJO]

How about a bit of detail then on the balls up and waste and then tell me where the government fits in,more likely dirt bag east coast builders.

Here is a few off the top of my head where the government fits in
The administration requirements and beurocracy (I’m not surprised with the current delays).

The over-specifying material being used in the building pushing up costs.

The need to rush the stimulus at a stupid speed. The time constraints and fines for delays have created even bigger delays because no one wants to touch the job. Who wants to be fined because you can't do your job because the last guy hasn't finished

Communication with the school, builder and government is almost non existent.

Payment delays causing tradies to buckle under.

The catholic schools are doing it for about half of what it costs state.

But the point of dirt bag east coast builders is also exactly right. These guys have screwed over a lot of the smaller guys.

No offense, but I ain't going into naming specifics of problems on school sites.

 

[todster]

I don't know what it's like where you live but where i grew up an where i live now there are schools that before the BER are exactly the same as they were when i went to school 40 years ago.
If a bit of so called waste went into giving todays kids a bit more of a chance of attending a school of a higher calibre in facilities than the 70s i call that progress.
This is money well spent imo.