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Good Question VC. In fact this is the scenario some of the retirees are facing today. They planned their retirement when the interest rates were much higher so it was a pretty good assumption at the time to expect 5% or above from money parked in the bank or TD's etc. I know of a few having to re-allocate money into higher risk (relatively compared to cash) assets like shares and property since they fear that they will outlive their retirement nest egg thanks to the interest rate cuts. Some have gone to risky measures via leveraging up their nest egg (/SMSF) to buy investment property at the property peak a year ago and now even more worried as their asset is worth less by at least 100k. Oh dear... Hope property keeps rising for their sake.But if you are drawing down a fixed percentage of your capital, doesn’t that mean that the total amount you get each year decreases as your capital decreases?
It may, but not necessarily. "The 4% rule", the one created by William Bengen in 1994, works like this. Let's say you retire with 100k (because 100 is a nice, round number). 4% of your balance at retirement (so $4000) is now set in stone. At this point, the "4%" concept has ended, as the math is only done once. From here on, that $4k is increased by the rate of inflation, and no longer references your actual balance. I'll arbitrary choose 3% for inflation.I do like the 4% though mate.
each year the nest egg will go down by 4%. Therefore as you said,I will have 25 years to eat up my nest egg which means it'll be running out on the 90th birthday.
Let's predict your death. Such fun! I'm not sure how old you are, but in Australia, the average life expectancy for a middle aged male is 80.4 years (as at 2016). Now that "average" includes people who die early. As you age, your life expectancy goes up! I know, it's magic. If you live to 65, you're LE is now 84.6. If you live to 85, your LE becomes 88.9 years.Chances are, would've moved onto another life by then if you believe in re-incarnation otherwise Salute to this world. Sorry to sound gloomy, but I like to evaluate my worst case scenario.
+1 for golden years and pay rises!On a more optimistic scenario the returns (capital + dividends) will outpace the 4% draw-down on most years and that means the nest egg will actually grow in tiny increments, which means all the luxuries like pay rises in the 'Golden Years'
I agree. There's lots of good stuff in this thread.This thread has been a very good discussion and I have had quite a few 'Ah Ha' moments into my own retirement planning while reading people's comments.
Yes into mine, although in my case it's active investing rather than trading, but hopefully my thoughts can still be useful. Possibly, we'll retire before our nest egg is actually large enough. So my plan involves actively growing our AUM slowly throughout retirement.Does 'active' trading fit into this mix as part of anyone's wealth preservation/growth strategy?
Good Question VC. In fact this is the scenario some of the retirees are facing today. They planned their retirement when the interest rates were much higher so it was a pretty good assumption at the time to expect 5% or above from money parked in the bank or TD's etc. I know of a few having to re-allocate money into higher risk (relatively compared to cash) assets like shares and property since they fear that they will outlive their retirement nest egg thanks to the interest rate cuts. Some have gone to risky measures via leveraging up their nest egg (/SMSF) to buy investment property at the property peak a year ago and now even more worried as their asset is worth less by at least 100k. Oh dear... Hope property keeps rising for their sake.
This thread has been a very good discussion and I have had quite a few 'Ah Ha' moments into my own retirement planning while reading people's comments.
I think most of us have not seen market downturns or crashes that take a very long time to recover such as the Japanese market. The GFC has been a real eye opener though. It has taken 10+ years for the share market to make a new high. So I think the persons with lesser lifespan left (i.e. over the retired age) would be less likely to go heavy on shares due to having to 'stay in' shares through a recovery which could extend beyond their "RIP" date.But, a lot of people don’t understand shares, so would freak out about fluctuations.
I think most of us have not seen market downturns or crashes that take a very long time to recover such as the Japanese market. The GFC has been a real eye opener though. It has taken 10+ years for the share market to make a new high. So I think the persons with lesser lifespan left (i.e. over the retired age) would be less likely to go heavy on shares due to having to 'stay in' shares through a recovery which could extend beyond their "RIP" date.
Most retirees I know of have a mix of cash, investment property and shares. A few even have some wine and fine art but I don't know if that was a 100% investment based asset or part hobby/part investment. Maybe they like a fine drop and appreciate/enjoy fine art. Having talked to them directly though, I found that their share allocation is much smaller than when they were younger due to intolerance for volatility in their retirement assets. They want a steady cash flow from the nest egg of assets without the portfolio going up and down like a rollercoaster.
This thread has been a very good discussion and I have had quite a few 'Ah Ha' moments into my own retirement planning while reading people's comments.
Yeah, I can understand why they would be worried about the ups and Downs, but by avoiding shares and sticking to cash they are taking the most dangerous route.
When you factor in dividends, the share market didn’t take that long to recover.
Also there was a big boom before the crash, so a retiree that put their money in a couple of years before the drop wouldn’t have dropped that far below heir entry point, and would have quickly recovered, given the higher dividends + franking than a cash investor.
I'm curious if anyone knows how a superfunds Index Bond works.
Are the unit prices determined soley from the yield?
Ie, when yield goes down, the price increases and so do the unit prices.
Are the interest earnings distributed to the investors?
That's a risk often overlooked when it comes to setting stop losses and determining maximum risk.Recently, one of my shares went into a trading halt for a month. Needless to say, I wasn't impressed. Had I needed to cash out, I have other shares. But if that had been a weak performing stock that I was looking to sell, I would have lost control over the timing.
Once "retired", we'll take 5% of the total portfolio out each year for expenses. That's 5% of the fluctuating, total balance. This means if the market crashes 50%, you still take out only 5%, but of course, in dollar terms that's only half as much as you're taking out if the market hadn't crashed. So it has an inbuilt safety into it where you're taking out fewer dollars in a bad market, and more in a good market. In a sense, it's a version of reverse dollar cost averaging.
Wow! This is "upside down land", but it's a fascinating approach. So you're effectively pretending you're retired, living off your savings, and secretly working as well. And you've placed financial independence as the absolutely #1 priority above all else. Nice.I'm not retired and not planning to be anytime soon but once I decided to take a career jump, out of the nice safe pot and into the fire so to speak, I also decided to live off my investments.
I withdraw 4% annually on a fortnightly basis, so that's one 26th of 4% of the balance each fortnight, and split that into three accounts - one for bill paying, one for asset replacement (furniture, car, whatever) and the other for living expenses.
So the withdrawal come from the cash inside your investment pool. The 4% creates the "budget". But the cash is really mostly from your wage?100% of income (after tax) from working, dividends, capital gains and anything else goes into the investment pool.
I would imagine so. Well done. I couldn't live on 4% of my investments at this point.That does mean living somewhat cheaply at the moment but I'm not planning any overseas trips etc in the near future anyway so no big drama.
Your withdrawal amount will increase over time, outpacing inflation. Plus you're pumping in new money. It's a powerful setup. I think stick with it.If circumstances change then I can of course always change the plan.
OTThat's a risk often overlooked when it comes to setting stop losses and determining maximum risk.
Just because you've got a stop set 10% below the current price doesn't mean it can't go into a trading halt and end up worth considerably less than 90% of the current price.
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