Do you have to day trade to trade full time?

Mr J · 31 August 2009

OzTrader, that first paragraph of Nulla's is a quote. You can get playback from Amibroker.

Nulla, I see what you're saying, but whether it's "trying to pick winners at the track" really depends on the approach, not the time involved. A few hours each night may just be a waste of time, but so could 6-7 hours during the day. Trading is a waste of time for most people, so why even consider taking a shot? Because they want to, and if they're going to do so then it is sensible they give themselves the best chance possible. Spending a few hours a night is certainly better throwing darts, as there is at least potential.

OzTrader · 31 August 2009

Mr J,
Thanks, I'll check them out?
Do you know how much it costs for ASX and futures?
Sounds interesting.

Trembling Hand · 31 August 2009

OzTrader said:
Mr J,
Thanks, I'll check them out?
Do you know how much it costs for ASX and futures?
Sounds interesting.

If you are after daytrading setups Ninja trader is probaly as good as it gets.

OzTrader · 31 August 2009

Thanks TH
Do you know what it costs?

Trembling Hand · 31 August 2009

OzTrader said:
Thanks TH
Do you know what it costs?

Nothing if you are just simming except the cost of data you feed it from your data provider.

OzTrader · 31 August 2009

TH, Thanks again.
I must give it a go, especially if it don't cost?
hard to believe it don't cost, must be the first thing I've heard of in trading that don't cost.

Edwood · 8 September 2009

this may well have been posted before on ASF, apologies if it has but this looked as good a place as any for it

http://www.nasaa.org/content/Files/Day_Trading_Analysis.pdf

Trembling Hand · 8 September 2009

Edwood said:
this may well have been posted before on ASF, apologies if it has but this looked as good a place as any for it

http://www.nasaa.org/content/Files/Day_Trading_Analysis.pdf

No surprise hey?

Indeed, an analysis of all the trading conducted in all the accounts shows that the average losing
trade was held twice as long (9.53 days), as the average winning trade (4.52 days). The average
intraday trade was also a losing trade. In short, these public short-term traders were cutting their
profits short and letting their losses run.

Classic.

nulla nulla · 8 September 2009

Mr J said:
OzTrader, that first paragraph of Nulla's is a quote. You can get playback from Amibroker.

Nulla, I see what you're saying, but whether it's "trying to pick winners at the track" really depends on the approach, not the time involved. A few hours each night may just be a waste of time, but so could 6-7 hours during the day. Trading is a waste of time for most people, so why even consider taking a shot? Because they want to, and if they're going to do so then it is sensible they give themselves the best chance possible. Spending a few hours a night is certainly better throwing darts, as there is at least potential.

The first part was definitely quoting a previous poster, I have never heard of "replays" of trading on the share market.

1. The "time involved" is the key to any degree of success. If you are not prepared to put the necessary time in, stick to your day job, otherwise you will lose;
2. Read anything and everything you can get your hands on;
3. Test the waters with small trades;
4. Don't try to trade willy nilly across the spectrum of shares;
5. Try to know as much as you can about 3-4 sectors;
6. Choose your targets in those sectors; and
7. Limit your efforts to those shares in your chosen sectors that have reasonable turnover (liquidity) and spread of movement in share price;
8. Be prepared to cut your losses when you make a mistake, so that you retain the greater part of your capital; and
9. "take your profits".

You will make mistakes, the key is to learn from your mistakes and try not to be emotionaly involved with your shares.

marknz88 · 8 September 2009

nulla nulla said:
The first part was definitely quoting a previous poster, I have never heard of "replays" of trading on the share market.

Possibly referring to NinjaTraders (or similar app's) ability to replay recorded market data and trade it on sim/review your trades...allows you to break down the trades and analyse them frame by frame after the market has closed rather than trying to do so while you are actually trading

nunthewiser · 8 September 2009

marknz88 said:
Possibly referring to NinjaTraders (or similar app's) ability to replay recorded market data and trade it on sim/review your trades...allows you to break down the trades and analyse them frame by frame after the market has closed rather than trying to do so while you are actually trading

intresting.........

has this method helped anyone with there trading ?

sincere question

edit........... actually i keep notes so looking at the above its just another form of review

as you were sorry for the interuption

Edwood · 8 September 2009

Trembling Hand said:
No surprise hey?

Classic.

lots of potential flaws in the research but a warning nuntheless for wanabees - should be essential reading really but can't see the brokerages providing this alongside their t's & c's

nunthewiser · 8 September 2009

Edwood said:
but a warning nuntheless for wanabees

i resemble that comment

Trembling Hand · 8 September 2009

nunthewiser said:
intresting.........

has this method helped anyone with there trading ?

sincere question

edit........... actually i keep notes so looking at the above its just another form of review

as you were sorry for the interuption

Actually its a bit better than that. I use it alot. For the why the hell did I do that review . Also I'm in the process of sorting days. Most days fall into about 6 different plays. All very similar yet diff. Some times helps to replay to see whats what.

nunthewiser · 8 September 2009

thanks

shortlist · 9 September 2009

Edwood said:
this may well have been posted before on ASF, apologies if it has but this looked as good a place as any for it

http://www.nasaa.org/content/Files/Day_Trading_Analysis.pdf

Interesting read. Shame it didn't go into why day-trading was less profitable than longer trades. Any ideas here? Maybe the immediacy of it all encourages impulsive decision-making, or the extra screen-time required was not appreciated. Or is it all just maths?

Trembling Hand · 9 September 2009

shortlist said:
Interesting read. Shame it didn't go into why day-trading was less profitable than longer trades. Any ideas here? Maybe the immediacy of it all encourages impulsive decision-making, or the extra screen-time required was not appreciated. Or is it all just maths?

The reason is actually no different to why all others are also not profitable. Most people cannot trade. The problem with daytrading is that it just compresses their failure into a quicker time frame.

That is 300 trades in 2 months = blow up where a swing trader takes 1 year to do that. Same result though. :

Wysiwyg · 9 September 2009

shortlist said:
Interesting read. Shame it didn't go into why day-trading was less profitable than longer trades. Any ideas here? Maybe the immediacy of it all encourages impulsive decision-making, or the extra screen-time required was not appreciated. Or is it all just maths?

Do you prefer roulette, blackjack or poker? It is all gambling. You bet on the price going your way from the buy in.

shortlist · 9 September 2009

Trembling Hand said:
The reason is actually no different to why all others are also not profitable. Most people cannot trade. The problem with daytrading is that it just compresses their failure into a quicker time frame.

That is 300 trades in 2 months = blow up where a swing trader takes 1 year to do that. Same result though. :

That's as good explanation as I there is, I guess. I'm still "paper trading" on demo accounts with reasonable results, though I doubt the demo platforms bear much resemblance to the real thing (immediacy of trading for one thing). The interest for me is in the research and the hopefully successful execution of that research.

shortlist · 9 September 2009

Wysiwyg said:
Do you prefer roulette, blackjack or poker? It is all gambling. You bet on the price going your way from the buy in.

I have no problem with the term gambling, and have gambled in the past, but the difference with the stock market is that you have many more variables to guide you to an educated decision, so if you lose your money most often it's lack of research or unsuccessful interpretation of data. If you lose your money on a lottery or a card game this is because 1) the outcomes are harder to predict and/or 2) there are fewer or no tangible factors contributing to the end result in cards or lotteries, as opposed to following the foreign policy of a country and making a forex decision based on a government press release.

Do you have to day trade to trade full time?

Mr J

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