Diggers Never Lie

Garpal Gumnut · 24 March 2011

The recent postings on Facebook from Diggers in Afghanistan illustrate the real world, of Australian soldiers, placed in mortal danger by the likes of apparatchiks like Gillard, PM and Stephen Smith, Minister for Defence.

We should not judge these brave Australians by their utterings, in mortal danger.

Compare them to the ****, that emenates from Parliament.

God knows what the Diggers at Gallipoli would have posted , had they had access to Facebook.

gg

Garpal Gumnut · 24 March 2011

Garpal Gumnut said:
The recent postings on Facebook from Diggers in Afghanistan illustrate the real world, of Australian soldiers, placed in mortal danger by the likes of apparatchiks like Gillard, PM and Stephen Smith, Minister for Defence.

We should not judge these brave Australians by their utterings, in mortal danger.

Compare them to the ****, that emenates from Parliament.

God knows what the Diggers at Gallipoli would have posted , had they had access to Facebook.

gg

Either this post has been moderated to buggery,

Or you so called Australians have gone to ground.

40 minutes and no reply.

Disgust, quality of our nation, opposite views??

Perhaps its too hard. Let the post die.

Last post?

gg

Garpal Gumnut · 25 March 2011

This says much about the stomach of Australia.

Still nobody willing to post.

Let us look forward to an ALP guvment of apathy for the next 89 years.

gg

Neutral · 25 March 2011

Unfortunately you have to throw the book at these lads. They deserve what they get for putting such stupid remarks in the public domain. WTF were they thinking???

The only thing these soldiers have achieved is inciting potential violence towards Australian personnel as their actions & statements reflect on our country as a whole, like it or not. When you are on the front lines, you are an ambassador to Australia.

We are there to win hearts and minds, and this type of behaviour undermines the entire mission. You don't win wars without the support of the local population period.

The ADF will more than likely want to make an example of these guys to deter others & more so to preserve face to the media to be seen to have done something about it. All Australian soldiers are educated and informed about the implications they face if they were to post material or views damaging to the ADF before they deploy. They knew such behaviour would not be tolderated from the start. Unprofessional IMO.

Calliope · 25 March 2011

Neutral said:
We are there to win hearts and minds, and this type of behaviour undermines the entire mission. You don't win wars without the support of the local population period.

These men are front line soldiers, not politicians, and no armchair critic at home has the right to sit in judgement of them. It reminds me of the furore when a digger was photographed in Timor prodding the body of a dead rebel with his boot.

Defence Minister Stephen Smith says the conduct of these men is appalling. They should be judged on the job they do and not on whether they are political correct.

Logique · 25 March 2011

Calliope said:
..Defence Minister Stephen Smith says the conduct of these men is appalling..

Posturing, for whose benefit? Let the finger-waggers take up the rifle and defend their country under day by day pressure and physical hardship.

Let Defence deal with this in-house, and the political correctness police stop moralizing.

basilio · 25 March 2011

Perhaps it worth reading what appears to have happened.

THE Defence Force has launched an investigation after Australian soldiers serving in Afghanistan posted racist slurs about Afghans and insulted Prime Minister Julia Gillard on their Facebook pages.

One of the soldiers referred to Afghans as ''sand niggaz'' and ''dune coons'', and joked about running them over in a vehicle.

Another described an unidentified Afghan man in a photograph as a ''poof'' and said he should be butt-stroked - slang for beaten with a rifle.

Other posts joked about Afghans having sex with dogs and described locals as ''smelly''.

.....Acting Chief of Army Paul Symon said last night he was shocked by the messages, most of which were posted on publicly accessible Facebook pages.

Announcing an investigation, Major-General Symon said the material posted ''discredits the overwhelmingly positive culture demonstrated throughout our deployments in Afghanistan over the last decade.

"These soldiers have demonstrated a lack of decency and professional judgment, and brought discredit to themselves and disrepute to the Army and the ADF.''

Some of the offending material was posted alongside a photo of a street scene in Afghanistan that included a local man on a bicycle. ''Last but not least, the poof riding the girl's bike [you] should have stuck a stick in his spokes then butt stroked him. He didn't do anything, just pisses me off. Happy shooting!'' a soldier wrote."

...Australians serving in Afghanistan are able to access and update Facebook pages through wireless internet terminals at even the smallest, most-remote bases, but are told firmly what type of material can and cannot be posted.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/race-slurs-diggers-to-face-probe-20110324-1c8kt.html

This is just stupid. dumb sxxx in anyones language. It undermines our credibility as a country "fighting for democracy", It will naturally outrage and inflame the Afgan people. It seems to have nothing to do with any operational matters which might be relevant. The comments about the current and previous PM's are just another crass side note to the story.

We don't have to pretend that everyone in the Army or anywhere is politically correct. But it is simply stoopid (IMO) to post such comments on a public page in Facebook and not expect severe consequences.

And I don't think you will find many politicians on any persuasion defending soldiers who make such public comments.

pointr · 25 March 2011

basilio said:
Perhaps it worth reading what appears to have happened.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/race-slurs-diggers-to-face-probe-20110324-1c8kt.html

This is just stupid. dumb sxxx in anyones language. It undermines our credibility as a country "fighting for democracy", It will naturally outrage and inflame the Afgan people. It seems to have nothing to do with any operational matters which might be relevant. The comments about the current and previous PM's are just another crass side note to the story.

We don't have to pretend that everyone in the Army or anywhere is politically correct. But it is simply stoopid (IMO) to post such comments on a public page in Facebook and not expect severe consequences.

And I don't think you will find many politicians on any persuasion defending soldiers who make such public comments.

These soldiers haven't been 'bright' if they thought their comments would stay in house. I am appalled by the do-gooder, politically correct nonsense that has been said in the media and some of the posts here, just another type of enemy our brave soldiers need to worry about.
It would be bad enough trying to fight people who are trying to kill you and yet be expected to have lovey-dovey thoughts about them, worse would be the 'thought police' at home and their career officer mouthpieces threatening you from behind.
News flash we are never going to 'win' anything in Afghanistan apart from a few minor military actions. The longer we abuse our soldiers by leaving them in this situation the more a job in a mine must look better and better to them. As for senior officers threatening enlisted men with dismissal, if my time in the RAN was any indication I'd suggest a whole lot of them would say bring it on!

basilio · 25 March 2011

It would be bad enough trying to fight people who are trying to kill you and yet be expected to have lovey-dovey thoughts about them, worse would be the 'thought police' at home and their career officer mouthpieces threatening you from behind. Pointr

Can we remember that we are supposed to be "defending" the wonderful Afgan people against the sinister Taliban. Or something like that anyway.

It just isn't a good look to make nasty public comments about the people you are there to defend and win over.

The thought police comment is, IMO, puerile. If you want to see this in a military way the soldiers who made these comments could (almost) be charged with treason for "aiding and abetting the enemy" by reducing the effectiveness of the armed forces campaign to win over the Afgan people.

My memory of Australia's involvement in this war was that the ADF took particular pains to offer constructive support to local Afgan communities in terms of providing schools, health services and infrastructure. This is certainly more likely to gain support than going over and shooting up anything that moves and then tagging them "Taliban" ( Because that has been the American way far too often)

Calliope · 25 March 2011

basilio said:
This is just stupid. dumb sxxx in anyones language. It undermines our credibility as a country "fighting for democracy", It will naturally outrage and inflame the Afgan people. It seems to have nothing to do with any operational matters which might be relevant. The comments about the current and previous PM's are just another crass side note to the story.

Sure, it was stupid to post it, but you have posted a lot of rubbish here and you are not even in the front line or ever likely to be. Most Afghan people hate foreign intruders anyway, and only accept them there on sufferance, whereas they are content with the Taliban governance which applies in most of the country.

Neutral · 25 March 2011

I'm glad to see there has been some balanced opinion in this thread. Irrespective of what some soldiers think about the Afghan population they are there to defend and bring about democracy.

No one expects our soldiers to be politicians. But professional (& smarter) they must be. Expressing your views in the public domain is just plain stupid, & it's also against ADF policy.

I think these soldiers have lost sight of the bigger picture as to why they are there. You are not sent over to f*** up the population to get your Rambo fix. Most couldn't care less about what the mission is to be honest. 99% want to be deployed in combat (that's why they joined the army as infantry) & are simply there to protect their mates. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this either. The brass dictates the mission & the boys look out for eachother. But don't put your personal views in the public domain unless it's supportive of the mission. Plain stupid & unprofessional! Just look at all the trouble it has caused!

Hearts & minds is the mission in the hope that the local population will in time turn against their oppressors when they come to realise a better life can be lived. In turn, western countries will have a lesser threat of global terrorism. That's the plan, whether it works or not.

It was government decision that led to their deployment, and it will be up to the same people who decide their fate. The soldiers knew the consequences of such actions well before they deployed. I don't wish for these guys to lose their jobs, (unless they want out) but disciplinary action does need to take place.

matty77 · 25 March 2011

I agree with GG 100% enough said.

Calliope · 25 March 2011

Neutral said:
Hearts & minds is the mission in the hope that the local population will in time turn against their oppressors when they come to realise a better life can be lived. In turn, western countries will have a lesser threat of global terrorism. That's the plan, whether it works or not.

Rubbish. Most Afghans consider the oppressors are the foreign invaders with their mission to "democratise" them.

Those who welcome them there are getting rich by syphoning off millions of the dollars that America is pouring into the country, to assist a very corrupt government.

basilio · 25 March 2011

Another interesting debate...

I saw General Cosgraves contribution which recognised that Australian soldiers are still doing good things even if some of them should remember there are some comments you don't say in public forums.

Tony Abbott (very predictably) also said the soldiers behaviours were wrong and that action should be taken.

Every representative associated with the military saw the behavior as stupid, dangerous to the war effort and certainly punishable in some degree.

So who does that leave? Well for a start about 90% of the Herald Sun readers whose comments left no doubt that they thought our good ol boys should say anything they liked about these various forms of sub humans they thought were out there.

And of course some our own resident commenters who also somehow just don't get diplomacy, military strategy, commonsense and finally common civility.

__________________________________________________________

I think this experience tells us we should take out all the teachers and shoot them because obviously the teaching profession has profoundly failed in its job to properly educate our community.

Garpal Gumnut · 25 March 2011

basilio said:
Every representative associated with the military saw the behavior as stupid, dangerous to the war effort and certainly punishable in some degree.

So who does that leave? Well for a start about 90% of the Herald Sun readers whose comments left no doubt that they thought our good ol boys should say anything they liked about these various forms of sub humans they thought were out there.

And of course some our own resident commenters who also somehow just don't get diplomacy, military strategy, commonsense and finally common civility.

It's always nice to be civil, when someone is about to blow your balls off.

It gives you a nice, warm, good feeling as you attend Anzac Day in a wheelchair for the rest of your life. Civility, there should be more of it.

gg

basilio · 25 March 2011

I did find a couple of cogent comments in the little paper. Thought they summed up the whole story as I see it.

What many people don't understand is that when you are in the Military you are not allowed to talk to the media nor make public comments. Some people call this censorship, i call it discipline. Why they thought it was a good idea to publish their action on a public forum beggers belief. What crazy is that they have clearly forgotten that the Taliban monitor and use the internet. These idiots have put themselves and their mates in danger by exposing their opinions to be used by the enemy. Its bloody Soldiering 101, never give the enemy anything that can be used against you in war. Its been that way since communications were developed in warfare. Loose lips sink ships. Sorry to all you apologists, but freedom of speech is not part of being a soldier and never has been.

Comment 444 of 481

Hammond Hill of puckapunyal Posted at 11:56 AM Today

I would like to add some perspective from a NCO point of view who has trained troops for the field. I'm not surprised that there is racist commentary that is posted out there. The Army for unbeknown reasons do attract many people with extreme points of view. In particular and, especially about Aboriginal Australia and people that are generally not white or Asian. The inappropriate behaviour when it is identified is often not backed up by more senior commanders which makes cultural change in the military especially the Army difficult to address. My observations so far indicate that there are a disproportionate amount of people with extreme right wing views in the Australian Army, recruitment practices are not screening effectively and more and more of these people are clearly ultra Nationalists. Unfortunately symbolism is a big thing in defence and the tatooed Southern Cross is generally a good clue as to where an individuals mind set is at. I Would love to provide my name but I have to continue to serve in this environment and address issues as they emerge.

Comment 457 of 481

Robert of Geelong Posted at 9:45 AM Today

To all the brain dead that think putting this on YouTube was no drama put yourself in this position. You're in a trench with an Afghanis soldier you're training standing behind you, your not real sure if this Afghani is with you or the Taliban. Your mates have just got on facebook and called this armed bloke standing behind you that your not real sure about, a Dune Coon, raghead, sand nigga, smelly local, dog F$%ker on Facebook Now this is the question you have to ask yourself. Do you want him behind you or in front of you after what your mates have called him on You Tube. If you say behind you're one of the brain dead. If you really value your mates lives you don't publish crap like that on YouTube you might say it but you should be smart enough to keep it in house.

Sean K · 25 March 2011

Bloody idiots to have put it in the public domain.

But not half as stupid as the idiots on Hot Crapper.

Young adults do silly things sometimes.

These guys are being shot at on a daily basis, and every parked car could be an IED.

Give them a break.

Or, volunteer and go there yourself.

trainspotter · 25 March 2011

kennas said:
Bloody idiots to have put it in the public domain.

But not half as stupid as the idiots on Hot Crapper.

Young adults do silly things sometimes.

These guys are being shot at on a daily basis, and every parked car could be an IED.

Give them a break.

Or, volunteer and go there yourself.

Just LOL at this one. Hot Crapper and idiots in the same sentence !!!!! Pfffffffffft Never !!

Gonna agree with the heirachy on this one. Loose lips sink ships. Not in the public domain boys. Send an email expressing your thoughts to close ones maybe. Stupidity knows no bounds.

Calliope · 25 March 2011

basilio said:
I did find a couple of cogent comments in the little paper. Thought they summed up the whole story as I see it.

When the clowns who's views you have lined up, have done a stint in the front line in an ugly war, and seeing their mates die, their comments might carry some weight.

And you "thought they summed up the whole story as I see it". You must be looking through very biased glasses.

namrog · 25 March 2011

kennas said:
Bloody idiots to have put it in the public domain.

But not half as stupid as the idiots on Hot Crapper.

Young adults do silly things sometimes.

These guys are being shot at on a daily basis, and every parked car could be an IED.

Give them a break.

Or, volunteer and go there yourself.

Kennas, you like it made known that you're ex military, or maybe still are , i don't know, so tell us , are these simple, brainwashed morons typical of those sent overseas, or is this just a showpiece to relieve boredom ...

IED's, giving them a break , that's what they bloody well signed up for, there is no conscription , they would have know the risks when they signed up, then again maybe not , since you probably need a little common sense to appreciate the same risks...

I've no sympathy for em , nor for most diggers for that matter, I bet that there are just as many people killed and injured on building sites in this country, than there are fighting in someones elses wars overseas, with little or no mention of it, certainly not prime time news.

If you put yourself in a dangerous situation, you can't complain when things turn nasty.

Horses for courses I suppose.....to sum up , I don't know what others are complaining about, what else did they expect from these guys..?

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