Did you suffer before doing well or vice versa?

sidswingerhead said:

I doubt it possible to ever truley be at stage 4 competence as a trader as the variables are too great. But stage 3 is a very achievable goal.

Click to expand...

Could you explain this a little more?

sidswingerhead said:

I doubt it possible to ever truley be at stage 4 competence as a trader as the variables are too great. But stage 3 is a very achievable goal.

Click to expand...

I think you misunderstand what stage 4 is. Unconscious competency is not infallibility, it is getting to the stage where competency is achieved without having to "think". A useful parallel allegory is that of an accomplished sportsman... say, a footy player.

They are not "thinking" about their game so much as reacting unconsciously, because the techniques have been mostly committed to the neocerebellum area of the brain.

An options market maker of old (before 'puters) is definitely stage 4, otherwise they crash and burn.

It just means you know what your doing without having to think about it.

MichaelD said:

Blaster,

Based on a review of this thread and some other posts of yours in other threads, it seemed appropriate to offer this up at this point in time.


It is said that there are 4 stages of trading ability;

1. Unconscious incompetents,
- Traders who have no idea what they are doing and don't realize it. If they don't move on from this, they invariably blow up, but it will be someone else's fault. They often have had a run of luck to date which they have confused with skill. The vast bulk of traders. They don't have a written down trading plan, much less trade consistently. After all, they don't need a plan, since it's easy to make a killing on the markets for someone as naturally gifted as them.

2. Conscious incompetents,
- Traders who have woken up to themselves and realize that they didn't know what they were doing but merely got lucky. These traders now have some idea of what little they actually know and some idea of how to go about finding out what they need to know.

3. Conscious competents,
- Consistent traders with positive expectancy who understand why they have a positive expectancy and act accordingly.

4. Unconscious competents.
- The mythical final level where trading is intuitive and consistently profitable.


You are at stage 1, with the faintest glimmerings that there even exists a stage 2.

Click to expand...

Just when I was starting to like it around here .
Granted - I am at the very very beginning paticulary around you guys . Ofcause , I don't claim any more than so what's wrong with that I've only been trading for under 12 mths .
But - that's why I use a system devised by a successfull trader of 20 yrs.

Your assumming also that I am guessing with AND - nope although I do really like the company regardless and there's nothin wrong with that.
AND was suggested to me by one of the biggest names in the country 12 mths ago .

I will say one thing though . Do you really think anyone trading could double in under 12 mths flying blind , come on ! Yes I know she's gone down right now but hey traders with 20 yrs have also gone down right now .

Have a nice day smart **** !

blaster said:

But - that's why I use a system devised by a successfull trader of 20 yrs.

Click to expand...

Well that system sucks if your down 65%

blaster said:

I will say one thing though . Do you really think anyone trading could double in under 12 mths flying blind , come on !

Click to expand...

YES.

You could also ask could someone who knows what they are doing have such a large drawdown??
And still have from your posts, with all due respect, not much of an idea what went on??

blaster said:

Just when I was starting to like it around here .
Granted - I am at the very very beginning paticulary around you guys . Ofcause , I don't claim any more than so what's wrong with that I've only been trading for under 12 mths .
But - that's why I use a system devised by a successfull trader of 20 yrs.

Your assumming also that I am guessing with AND - nope although I do really like the company regardless and there's nothin wrong with that.
AND was suggested to me by one of the biggest names in the country 12 mths ago .

I will say one thing though . Do you really think anyone trading could double in under 12 mths flying blind , come on ! Yes I know she's gone down right now but hey traders with 20 yrs have also gone down right now .

Have a nice day smart **** !

Click to expand...

PS . I have followed the trades that I was meant to do instead of turning chicken sh't, deviating and listening to others and it actually works out that my account would be 30% up on end 07 right now even in this market. Instead of 30% down on the early 07 beginning .
Not bad for a trading blindly guessing fool and my first year !

Stage 4 of being unconsciously competent or acting and reacting upon instinct and not thinking is improbable (IMO).

I doubt anyone is that good.

But to attain consistent returns with minimal losses is very achievable. The market is ever evolving and subject to change from many external influences. To be a stage 4 trader. I doubt it possible.

Sure I believe you can easily achieve the consciously competent stage 3 level.

blaster said:

Just when I was starting to like it around here .
Granted - I am at the very very beginning paticulary around you guys . Ofcause , I don't claim any more than so what's wrong with that I've only been trading for under 12 mths .

Have a nice day smart **** !

Click to expand...

Lolololol at the last line.

Don`t worry mate ... most of us drift in and out of stage one and two.

Hi there Blaster,

I notice a couple of the lads are putting the boot in a little hard here, but don’t take it personally. There are some very good traders around here (and a lot of very average ones like me !!) ………… Read between the lines and you will pick up some valuable info from them.

I’m certainly not going to preach any great trading methods to you, cause I’m still working on that one myself.

If I could give you one piece of advice that would have saved me a small fortune, and will hopefully stop you doing what I did …………. 90% of being a successful trader is learning “money management” ………. Preserving capital through sound MM is priority number one ………. Everything else comes a distant second.

Unfortunately, even once you’ve learned and understand MM, often implementing and following it under the stress of a losing trade can put your “psych” under a lot of pressure …………… that is why Michael is advocating a proven/tested trading plan because this takes a lot of the psych out of the equation. Traders like T/H who can happily do 100 scalp trades a day and not end up a nervous wreck are a rare breed indeed. …………… Even though they may be giving you a bit of verbal grief, I would listen carefully to their comments ….. there’s usually a few diamonds in the rough. Good luck with it. Barney.

barney said:

Hi there Blaster,

I notice a couple of the lads are putting the boot in a little hard here, but don’t take it personally. There are some very good traders around here (and a lot of very average ones like me !!) ………… Read between the lines and you will pick up some valuable info from them.

I’m certainly not going to preach any great trading methods to you, cause I’m still working on that one myself.

If I could give you one piece of advice that would have saved me a small fortune, and will hopefully stop you doing what I did …………. 90% of being a successful trader is learning “money management” ………. Preserving capital through sound MM is priority number one ………. Everything else comes a distant second.

Unfortunately, even once you’ve learned and understand MM, often implementing and following it under the stress of a losing trade can put your “psych” under a lot of pressure …………… that is why Michael is advocating a proven/tested trading plan because this takes a lot of the psych out of the equation. Traders like T/H who can happily do 100 scalp trades a day and not end up a nervous wreck are a rare breed indeed. …………… Even though they may be giving you a bit of verbal grief, I would listen carefully to their comments ….. there’s usually a few diamonds in the rough. Good luck with it. Barney.

Click to expand...

Well thanks Barney .
Nice to know their not all 'smart>>>>s' around here - Mod' I've taken the liberty of putting the spaces in for you this time , sorry about that.

Their not boots mate their just silver tounged [ well I can't add the next bit ] they've been typing too much , unfortunately forums attract them.

Not a doubt in my mind their are some very good traders around here , one of the reasons I joined . As I said to His Highness Jesus I don't claim to be in even the same hemisfere and what , I'm not aware of beginners luck no matter what yourt using. Christ almighty I wish I could swear all this politeness is killing me .
Very predictable !

What I can't work out though is why they can't ad up with all that fancy talk and worlds of experience .
I've had 3 or 4 comments saying I'm 65 or 70% down not 30 , what the !.
Umm , that was 30 down from principal which was doubled equalling 130 - ouch , on my calc ' .

These people say they've read but was that with glasses on or ? Because even with my sorry little pea brain I have picked 1/2 a dozen contradictions at least and I haven't even read the whole thread , as silly as it it is .
They miss the one biggest key factor - I have wondered - strayed - deviated , that's in all my posts as pethetic as they are but they haven't got it yet preach all over the place - stick to stratergy.
Someone here even argued that changing a stratergy seems to muck with them which is pretty f'g obvious that that's exactly what I did .

Strangely enough all the basic people in this area like myself ,yourself , basic meaning of this world, got it day one and have told their story along with real advice .

Pretty damn predictable. Intellectual overload - some people really have gotta watch that stuff !

Such is life !
Cheers mate.

i could get real deep and meaningfull here, except im eating an ice cream and typing one handed.

so i'll be brief. if you have suffered financially during your financial life experience, recovered, and now have the readys to enter the market, you have more chance of doing well, than learning it as you go here, now, and with no adversity in your financial life experience...

blaster said:

What I can't work out though is why they can't ad up with all that fancy talk and worlds of experience .
I've had 3 or 4 comments saying I'm 65 or 70% down not 30 , what the !.
Umm , that was 30 down from principal which was doubled equalling 130 - ouch , on my calc ' .

Click to expand...

Drawdown buddy Drawdown. 65 % from peak to trough. Thats bad no other way to look at blaster.

Trembling Hand said:

Drawdown buddy Drawdown. 65 % from peak to trough. Thats bad no other way to look at blaster.

Click to expand...

Ooooh I knew that one would backfire , ouch . But I do know where it's coming from and yep - she ain't pretty .

Finally we can get back to the guts of the situation.

Cheers

blaster said:

But - that's why I use a system devised by a successfull trader of 20 yrs.

Your assumming also that I am guessing with AND - nope although I do really like the company regardless and there's nothin wrong with that.
AND was suggested to me by one of the biggest names in the country 12 mths ago .

I will say one thing though . Do you really think anyone trading could double in under 12 mths flying blind , come on ! Yes I know she's gone down right now but hey traders with 20 yrs have also gone down right now .

Click to expand...

blaster said:

PS . I have followed the trades that I was meant to do instead of turning chicken sh't, deviating and listening to others and it actually works out that my account would be 30% up on end 07 right now even in this market. Instead of 30% down on the early 07 beginning .
Not bad for a trading blindly guessing fool and my first year !

Click to expand...

1. If the system is such a good one, why did you not follow it?
2. If the system is such a good one, why are you asking about other black box systems?
3. If the system is such a good one, why do you not name it when asked about your strategy?
4. Whose fault is it that you are in the position you are in now?

5. If AND goes pear-shaped, whose fault will that be?
6. Can anyone double their money in 12 months flying blind? You betcha it can be done, and more (look up the relevant thread on MTN). Stay blind, though, and the market will take it back even faster.
7. Traders with 20 years experience may (or may not be) down at present, but I'll guarantee you that if they are down, they are not down an amount that has caught them by surprise - it'll still be business as usual.

No one here is having a go at you. We don't need to. The market has done very well at doing that on its own. What happens from here is entirely up to you.