CSS - Clean Seas Seafood

truevalue · 3 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Come on Basilica! Are you 15 years old or have you never watched Wall Street with Michael Douglas and Charlie Sheen? Talk about history repeating itself! How relevent is that movie now to some of the recent events in Corporate America and Australia?

Basilica · 4 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

truevalue said:
Come on Basilica! Are you 15 years old or have you never watched Wall Street with Michael Douglas and Charlie Sheen? Talk about history repeating itself! How relevent is that movie now to some of the recent events in Corporate America and Australia?

Sorry about my slow and limited responses latley. I am in the process of harrassing a group of three insolvency professionals now in charge of the company i previously worked for. I am owed 14K and they all failed to accuratly declare their independance. One even slept at a directors family's house on first visit.

15 yo ... i wish
47 yo ... i wish i were not!

Gorden Gecko = greed is good ???
I do not remember any horses in the movie.
And i am certain if there was, it was not wearing blue shoes.

To pick up on the mortality rate of 98% you quoted from Oracles exellent link.
Dont worry or bask about that too much. In time it will get to that and beyond. It is quite cheap to keep huge numbers of fish in small space and they dont each much. maybe 5% body weight per day. What i focused on is the Survival rate of 93% after fingerling size. Treat them as 2 processes and one step at a time. Egg to adult mortality % has little meaning. Huge infrastructure and feed costs to pass stage 2.

Is anyone interested in a general Aquaculture Threed on this forum?
I would lke to discuss the industry as a whole as well as the individual companies.

tge oracle · 5 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Is anyone interested in a general Aquaculture Threed on this forum?
I would lke to discuss the industry as a whole as well as the individual companies.[/QUOTE]

This is becoming quite a busy and informative thread Basilica. Once CSS complete SBT lifecycle closure on a commercial scale it will become a lot busier. I think we already do cover aspects of aquaculture in our CSS and TGR comments. I would suggest we try to stick to information specifically on CSS for the time being as this is the most sigmifiant development in the aquaculture industry for many years. I have a lot more to say on the potential for CSS that goes way beyond sashimi production and a vision that has the potential to make CSS a true global seafood giant. I would prefer to wait for details on the specidifc results from lifecycle closure before commenting further. These comments will be very relevant to the aquaculture industry as an industry of the future, in fact , evetually I can see nearly all seafood production coming from the aquacultire in the future.

BlueHshoeLvs CSS · 5 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Basilica said:
Hi BlueHorseShoe, Welcome to the forum. How did you choose a name like that?
What let you to be interested in Aquaculture?

Hey Basilica,
Yep Blue Horse Shoe is from Wall St the movie. B.H.S is code word for Gordon Gecko.
More interested in CSS specifically than aquaculture as a whole....will be even more interested if they can economically commercialise the SBT.

Keep up the good work guys. It's great reading....and something tells me we may be reading a lot more over the next couple of months.

steamairship · 6 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

BlueHshoeLvs CSS said:
Hey Basilica,
Yep Blue Horse Shoe is from Wall St the movie. B.H.S is code word for Gordon Gecko.
More interested in CSS specifically than aquaculture as a whole....will be even more interested if they can economically commercialise the SBT.

Keep up the good work guys. It's great reading....and something tells me we may be reading a lot more over the next couple of months.

What do holders think of the latest Ann posted today? Especially the information provided about the Tuna spawning progress.

I hold CSS, CNM, CNX

tge oracle · 6 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

steamairship said:
What do holders think of the latest Ann posted today? Especially the information provided about the Tuna spawning progress.

I hold CSS, CNM, CNX

There is, undoubtedly, disappointment that SBT production will not be achieved this year on a commercial scale, however, there still appears to be a possibility of significant fingerling production if breeding continues throughot April. They are hoping for " some " fingerlings by end of May.
This is an important milestone that must be achieved in my view.

Now for the good news. I regard the move to profitability of the YTK business as a significant positive. I had previously speculated that this would occur in Q1/09. The company is now cash flow positive so the Rabo bank debt can be reduced with these funds and it will cover any necessary business expenses over the coming months. Another positive is that there appears to be no immediate need to raise funds ( capital raising ) and if there were to be one it would be relatively small in scale. Any future raisings would be in line with SBT production scale, this will achieve strong support in my view.

The company is being very open and transparent in it's reporting which is another positive sign. I do get the feeling they are being very cautious and wouldn't rule out more positive news over the comings weeks / months.

I am a long term hoder and today's announcement doesn't alter my position.

FI$H · 6 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Why is the investor presentation announcement not marked with an exclamation mark on ASX if the content is considered price-sensitive?

tge oracle · 6 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

FI$H said:
Why is the investor presentation announcement not marked with an exclamation mark on ASX if the content is considered price-sensitive?

Yes, I had wondered about that myself Fi$h. Although the SBT propogation is still very uncertain the profit guidance from the YTK business is certainly material to the CSS's outlook. At least we have the information, not like last year!

kenny · 6 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

tge oracle said:
Yes, I had wondered about that myself Fi$h. Although the SBT propogation is still very uncertain the profit guidance from the YTK business is certainly material to the CSS's outlook. At least we have the information, not like last year!

Price sensitive or not, I really appreciate the wealth of information that came out. It was interesting to hear about the use of the Kingfish project to push the SBT work.

Interesting too the lack of detail regarding the need for a cap raising and the dampening of expectations of a commercial haul from the current batch.

I could get used to transparency

Cheers,

Kenny

truevalue · 6 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

I would have preferred they didn't release this presentation now but in a month or so's time when they will have more to say on the fingerling success (or otherwise). All this release does (in my view) is create more investor anxiety and uncertainty. It is still too early for management to know whether they will have a live tuna in a month's time and given this is the single biggest factor to affect the stock, why say anything now?

I never (and I didn't think any other posters on this forum) saw this run as being commercial, although it would have been nice. With 50 million eggs, surely they have a good chance of hitting the right protocols?

I found the comments on Kingfish profitability disappointing once again. I think they are right to pull back production expectations on the Kingfish and keep their capacity for SBT. Clearly they have not met sales targets in YTK and production costs are still too high.

I am still a long term holder

tge oracle · 6 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

truevalue said:
I would have preferred they didn't release this presentation now but in a month or so's time when they will have more to say on the fingerling success (or otherwise). All this release does (in my view) is create more investor anxiety and uncertainty. It is still too early for management to know whether they will have a live tuna in a month's time and given this is the single biggest factor to affect the stock, why say anything now?

I never (and I didn't think any other posters on this forum) saw this run as being commercial, although it would have been nice. With 50 million eggs, surely they have a good chance of hitting the right protocols?

I found the comments on Kingfish profitability disappointing once again. I think they are right to pull back production expectations on the Kingfish and keep their capacity for SBT. Clearly they have not met sales targets in YTK and production costs are still too high.

I am still a long term holder

I suspect they were compelled, possibly by the ASX, to provide more information to shareholders on the status of progress, They were issued with a speediing ticket which didn't provide as much information as it could have.
I was wondering how they could wait until the end of April with so many developments occuring which will , potentially , materilally affect the company. Regular accurate and transparent disclosure is always the best policy in this situation.

re YTK . They do need to improve the margins over time. I do believe this will occur throughout the year through improved production protocols and marketing. Remember , YTK was losing money last year. At least it is cash flow positive and trending in that direction. This will take pressure off the all important capital requirements.

The SBT fingerling progression is the most important issue for CSS , by far. They must achieve success with fingerling porpogation this season. Failure to do so will leave a question mark over their ability to achieve success next season. In my opinion, they will succeed. We will know by May.

kenny · 9 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

I'm happy about CSS's adherence (now) to the concept of Continuous Disclosure and wondered like you did tge about how management would be able to withhold all information on developments before May.

Thanks for the reply Truevalue. Why did you find the YTK information disappointing? At least it's in the black now and assisting the SBT programme.

I still hold the view that the presentation was deliberately conservative in tone and helpful for newcomers to CSS like myself in highlighting the developmental risks still to be faced.

Have a great Easter.

Kenny

tge oracle · 9 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

kenny said:
I'm happy about CSS's adherence (now) to the concept of Continuous Disclosure and wondered like you did tge about how management would be able to withhold all information on developments before May.

Thanks for the reply Truevalue. Why did you find the YTK information disappointing? At least it's in the black now and assisting the SBT programme.

I still hold the view that the presentation was deliberately conservative in tone and helpful for newcomers to CSS like myself in highlighting the developmental risks still to be faced.

Have a great Easter.

Kenny

I am hopeful that CSS have adopted an under promise and over deliver approach on the progress of SBT propogation this season.
After carefully considering what they have said both officially in ASX announcements and through the media / CSS website I will eagerly await their progress report in late April / early May.
They have stated that they won't achieve a commercial quantity of SBT fingerflings this season. But what do they regard as a commercial quantity?
They have stated that they expect a pre-commercial quantity in Dec / Jan of 25000+ figerlings. It is entirely possible this may be achieved by May as this is not by definition a "commercial quantity".
25K of fingerlings, or any where near that, would be a major achievement and leave me in no doubt, what so ever, that they have cleared all the hurdles for future SBT production.

I also can't help thinking about their assertion , on the website, that they have closed the SBT life cycle. I can't be sure, but I suspect they do have SBT fry or even fingerlings already. It is just a question of how many?

All the above is only me thinking out loud and not based on any particular facts. Let's hope my suspicions come to fruition.

Happy Easter to all!

Green08 · 9 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

tgeo - do you only have experience and knowledge of cold water aquaculture? Or are you verse with the other few aquaculture companies listed? I believe there is successful scope for those in this industry to have a future. I wish the government would pledge assistance for R & D work, though we have a small but very informed group working in Australia

tge oracle · 10 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Green08 said:
tgeo - do you only have experience and knowledge of cold water aquaculture? Or are you verse with the other few aquaculture companies listed? I believe there is successful scope for those in this industry to have a future. I wish the government would pledge assistance for R & D work, though we have a small but very informed group working in Australia

Green08

I do have knowledge and experience with some tropical species such as prawns / basa etc but these are predominately bred in SE Asia where water quality is an issue.
We do have limited prawn farming in australia along with Barramundi but these are not listed companies. AAQ ( Barra ) was recently delisted.
WKL were to embark on Lobster and Bug propogation but they failed with their YTK cohort which was to help fund their development.
I understand Cell Aqua will look to invest in Barra in Malaysia but they are mainly producers of aquaculture equipment.

We have great potential in Australia for aquaculture production and I agree that there should be a lot more funding for aqauaculture via R&D, grants etc.
Being geographically remote and surrounded by pristine waters we should have a thriving aquaculture industry.
I think there is a growing realisation on the potential for this industry but it is a slow road.

If CSS succeed with SBT propogation it will really put this industry on everybody's radar.
The truth is, only learned investors understand the industry and it's potential.
As with the humble Merino, we may well be living off the aquaculture industry's back in the future.

Green08 · 10 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

I beg to differ.

I respect information you lodge here though you have admitted, you are a share holder in CSS and TGR for some time close to inception thus have a vested interest.

I have looked at Marine Produce Australia MPA - farming Barramundi in the north of Broome in the most pristine environment. They have firm sales, infact their sales out strip production. Barramundi exist in more flexible environments than tuna or salmon. May not be your fish of choice for sushi but in a world where food is becoming a needed and more difficult to source commodity - especially quality protein. People who can are buying.

I am fully aware of AAQ and WLK. They were set up in haste and not the ideal conditions. AAQ in the wrong market and WLK using tanks used to house a different species of fish who knows what was left.

tge oracle · 10 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Green08 said:
I beg to differ.

I respect information you lodge here though you have admitted, you are a share holder in CSS and TGR for some time close to inception thus have a vested interest.

I have looked at Marine Produce Australia MPA - farming Barramundi in the north of Broome in the most pristine environment. They have firm sales, infact their sales out strip production. Barramundi exist in more flexible environments than tuna or salmon. May not be your fish of choice for sushi but in a world where food is becoming a needed and more difficult to source commodity - especially quality protein. People who can are buying.

I am fully aware of AAQ and WLK. They were set up in haste and not the ideal conditions. AAQ in the wrong market and WLK using tanks used to house a different species of fish who knows what was left.

You won't get any arguement from me Green08, I also regard Barramundi as a premium porduct with great potential. I had invested in AAQ for that reason, however, I did start to have concerns when they had problems with quality and biomass issues a couple of years ago so decided to exit from my investment.
I had omitted MPA from my previous list, not intentially, just forgot about them. I had kept a cursory glance on them , some time ago, but have been busy with other investments in my portfolio.
I will keep an eye on MPA, but won't comment further unless I have completed a lot more research , or, decided to invest.

I have disclosed my interest in TGR and CSS and ,of course, any investor who purchases an investment does so in the expectation that it will grow and has a vested interest in seeing that materilase. I do try to be objective with my commentary looking at the positive's and negative's.

Good luck with MPA, if you are invested.

truevalue · 14 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

kenny said:
I'm happy about CSS's adherence (now) to the concept of Continuous Disclosure and wondered like you did tge about how management would be able to withhold all information on developments before May.

Thanks for the reply Truevalue. Why did you find the YTK information disappointing? At least it's in the black now and assisting the SBT programme.

I still hold the view that the presentation was deliberately conservative in tone and helpful for newcomers to CSS like myself in highlighting the developmental risks still to be faced.

Have a great Easter.

Kenny

Hi Kenny,

I was only disappointed because they had previously stated that the second half result would at least erase the first half losses, ie a break-even/full year profit. Now they are forecasting a small full year loss. This can only mean YTK is not on budget.

YTK should make a good profit next year provided prices don't deteriorate and provided they can get their cost base right.

This is all small beer in the scheme of the CSS story but I suppose I am keen to see them demonstate that they can make the YTK business successful and prove they have made the step from being fishermen to aquaculturalists.

I am still very confident in the long-term future of the company, having said all that, and just need to keep my focus on the big picture.

kenny · 14 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Hi Truevalue,

With the YTK being the main (only?) revenue generator of significance at this point, you are probably correct in your assumption. Rather than the YTK failing to live up to expectations, it may well be expense overruns in other activities like the SBT setup that may have skewed the result.

I'm still thinking there will be a cap raising in the near future.

REgards,

Kenny

FI$H · 14 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

tge oracle said:
They have stated that they won't achieve a commercial quantity of SBT fingerflings this season. But what do they regard as a commercial quantity?
They have stated that they expect a pre-commercial quantity in Dec / Jan of 25000+ figerlings. It is entirely possible this may be achieved by May as this is not by definition a "commercial quantity".

This was the most irritating and disappointing bit of the update to me. In earlier statements they had hoped for commencement of commercial scale production in 2010. This is clearly no longer the case or am I mistaken? Second, can they get the tuna to spawn soon enough to get fingerlings in December?

Maybe it's for the better if commercialization of the SBT business is delayed by a year or two and coincides with strong YTK revenues. After the AAQ disaster I'd hate to see this one to go belly-up as well.

CSS - Clean Seas Seafood

BlueHorseShoe

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