CSS - Clean Seas Seafood

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Basilica said:

I totally agree oracle by 45mm the fish willbe very robust and most can be expected to live to a ripe/tasty old age.
Thanks for the link.
Do they still only have one female large enough to breed or have they obtained more? It is a good time to try to obtain more than one spawning per year.

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Basilica,

As I understand it they have a number of female fish. The problem ,last year, was that most of the females were not ready to breed. Reading between the lines of today's announcement I would guess that more than one female is spawning. Bare in mnd that a mature female can produce many hundreds of thousands of eggs.
As I speculated in an earlier post, I think they are achieving multiple spawning events over the past few weeks and may continue to do so.

In answer to your second. I would need more information before recommending more than one spawning a year as it is essential that they succeed with this current project and successfully close the life cycle on a commercial scale. But yes, ultimately this may well be a goal they will aim for in the longer term. It would address the time lag between batches and satisfy customer demand throughout the yaer. This gap could be covered by the wild catch SBT in the meantime.

On another note, I am much happier with their prompt updating of the market this year when there is a new development. Last year we were all left in the dark for a number of months. I trust they will continue with this up to date ,open and transparent reporting. Some investors may feel wary after last years disclosures, however, ironically, I suspect this is the real thing this time.
Time will soon tell if I am right.

Note: These are my personal opinions and should not be considered as a recommendation to invest in CSS. DYOR.
I am a holder of CSS shares.

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Basilica said:

The announcement is out, and tranding halt over. Shares down about 10%.
It is unclear if they have proceded further than the lavae stage they achieved last year. I am glad they provided a date when they will confirm if viable fingerlings have been produced, and hopefully if a repeatable method has been formulated.



"
As a consequence of a 38% increase in the company’s share price on Monday 16 March 2009 Clean Seas Tuna Limited initiated a trading halt in its shares to ensure all shareholders are equally informed on the progress of the Tuna propagation program.
The company reports that its trials are consistently achieving high levels of quality fertilised eggs and larvae for propagation, and that forward planning for commercialisation of Southern Bluefin Tuna has now commenced.
Shareholders are again cautioned regarding the risks in this complex research and development phase. We are, however, optimistic that our team can replicate the production of large quantities of larvae for future commercialisation.
Trials are ongoing and a further update will be provided to the market on approximately 30 April 2009, when we hope to confirm the production of viable Southern Bluefin Tuna fingerlings.
"

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Here is a link to the Port Lincoln local newspaper with an article about the spawning and how the fish are still laying fertilised eggs. The issue seems to be that they dont have enogh feed for the larvae

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Tuna babies: First bred tuna larvae swimming at Arno Bay
CHRISTOPHER COOTE
19/03/2009 12:30:00 AM
AT 1pm yesterday Hagen Stehr was in tears, not tears of sorrow, but tears of relief and joy as he explained that swimming in his company's hatchery at Arno Bay were the first commercially bred swimming, eating southern bluefin tuna in the world.

Mr Stehr had just received a phone call from the hatchery that all but guarantees Clean Seas Tuna will have southern bluefin tuna ready for commercial production by the end of this year.

He said the larvae, which were about the size of a grain of sand, had again been produced, and the company knew how to replicate the process.

"You can see the heart pumping and the veins going through them, it's just amazing," he said.

If all of the larvae and fertilised eggs Clean Seas has in its hatchery now were to grow into saleable fish the company would have in its tanks 20 times the number of fish the whole of the Australian southern bluefin tuna industry produces in a year, potentially changing the face of the industry forever.

The company's broodstock started producing fertilised eggs last Tuesday and haven't stopped since according to Mr Stehr.

"Last week I was all but resigned to the fact that we would have to wait another seven months to get the larvae but then it started to happen and the fish have continued to produce eggs," he said.

Clean Seas has managed to get southern bluefin larvae to survive for a number of days just three years after being established, but the company is unsure how long it will be able to keep them alive this time because it was not geared up and, at this stage, does not have adequate feed.

"Because they eat so much and we weren't really ready for so many of them, we are madly working on getting enough feed."

Mr Stehr said the larvae were ferocious eaters, and if they were kept alive would grow to 10 kilograms within a year.

If Clean Seas' broodstock had produced larvae late last year, it is feasible they would be in sea cages off Arno Bay now, but as the water temperature has dropped it is likely the company will keep any surviving fish onshore through the winter.

"In theory we will have fish in the water by the end of this year."

To feed the larvae the company plans to use another of its success stories.

Mr Stehr explained that Clean Seas will use eggs from its yellowtail kingfish breeding program to feed the larvae before they start them on other types of feed as they grow.

He said while he did not want to trivialise the steps the company needed to take to achieve a commercial breeding regime, all of the big hurdles had been jumped.

"First people said we couldn't get the males to spermiate, then they said we couldn't get the females to spermiate, then they said we wouldn't get fertlilised eggs, but we have done more than that and have larvae that are growing.

"The commercialisation process is inevitable now, it can't be stopped," he said.

"Even if we lose all of these larvae, we know how to get the tuna to reproduce ... we have the triggers."

The biggest hurdles the company face now are the impending infrastructure costs associated with the growout of the tuna.

Mr Stehr said potentially his company would have to increase its operations at Arno Bay by about 10 times, which would mean the town and the workforce would also have to grow with it.

"The realities of life say this could take a little time and a lot of money so we will have to come to terms with that," he said.

Clean Seas shares were on a trading halt yesterday afternoon, which was expected to be lifted this morning, after they jumped 38 per cent on Monday.

The author has shares in Clean Seas.

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Tks for the article Nizora.

Some of you may have already done the sums but just in case you haven't . Hagen's prediction of 20 times the current Australian quota , with no mortality, equates too:

105,300 Tonnes of SBT which would be valued at $ 2.317 Billion dollars worth of SBT ( calculated at $22/kg )

I think the maths are right , you might need to check.

Not bad for a company with a market cap of arond $ 80M.

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Dont forget Oracle that it will cost $10/kg to produce those fish which would equate to $1.05 billion. Ok so $1.3 billion profit is still quite good.

I will just be happy to see 10,000 tonnes to begin with which will net me a tidy $120m gross profit, and only cost $100m capex. Good payback!

If you were wondering if this thing could be big wonder no longer.

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

truevalue said:

Dont forget Oracle that it will cost $10/kg to produce those fish which would equate to $1.05 billion. Ok so $1.3 billion profit is still quite good.

I will just be happy to see 10,000 tonnes to begin with which will net me a tidy $120m gross profit, and only cost $100m capex. Good payback!

If you were wondering if this thing could be big wonder no longer.

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Yes, good point Truevalue. My calculation was revenue only, production costs would need to be deducted.

I think all of us long term investors have a very good understanding of CSS and it's potential.
Investors were skeptical about TGR when it first floated, but it delivered in the end and has become a world leading Salmon producer.

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

tge oracle said:

Basilica,

On another note, I am much happier with their prompt updating of the market this year when there is a new development. Last year we were all left in the dark for a number of months. I trust they will continue with this up to date ,open and transparent reporting.

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Better than last year but still a 38% move in share price too late.
This is possibly outside the directors control.

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

steamairship said:

Here is a link to the Port Lincoln local newspaper with an article about the spawning and how the fish are still laying fertilised eggs. The issue seems to be that they dont have enogh feed for the larvae

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Hi SteamAirShip,
I coud not see the link you referenced I assume it is as nizora posted below but the Author is missing.

Totally off topic ...
I used to make steam airships when i was a kid.
I got the light plastic bags from the drycleaning and sealed up the hole the coathanger made and crimped tiny pieces of alfoil to the open lower rim for ballast. Tried candles, steam and hair dryer to create lighter than air craft. would float up to about 5 M before colling.

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Basilica said:

Better than last year but still a 38% move in share price too late.
This is possibly outside the directors control.

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I think they reported as soon as practicably possible with this announcement. It would be impossible to stop news from leaking out when there are so many staff working on this project e.g. scientists, hatchery staff, technicians etc. who have just witnessed a major spawning event. All it takes is a phone call.
The complaint I had last year was that it took nearly 3 months for CSS to accurately update the market. I the meantime, certain investors who had market sensitive information were frantically unloading their holdings. It was a disgraceful episode that diminished confidence in CSS and it's management.
I regard market confidence as ,potentially , the most damaging force affecting a listed company. It can rapidly turn catastrophic ( MFS, BNB, ALLCO, ABC etc ) for a company.
On a positive note, I do believe CSS understand the huge mistake they made last year and will keep us all informed in a timely fashion.
Investor confidence will soon return to CSS , particularly, if they achieve success of a scale as recently suggested.

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Thanks for the text nizora, This is clearly an exciting time for CSS.
I have a few concerns that the text outside quotes is an improvement on reality.

Mr Stehr had just received a phone call from the hatchery that all but guarantees Clean Seas Tuna will have southern bluefin tuna ready for commercial production by the end of this year.

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This is a huge call and totally contridicted by a later statement by the author.

"all but guarantees" vs "unsure how long it will be able to keep them alive this time" not a direct quote from Mr Stehr just the author and shareholder speaking.

Clean Seas has managed to get southern bluefin larvae to survive for a number of days just three years after being established, but the company is unsure how long it will be able to keep them alive this time because it was not geared up and, at this stage, does not have adequate feed.

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If all of the larvae and fertilised eggs Clean Seas has in its hatchery now were to grow into saleable fish the company would have in its tanks 20 times the number of fish the whole of the Australian southern bluefin tuna industry produces in a year

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No one involved in aquaculture could ever debate that this is even remotly possible and not a direct quote from Mr Stehr.

The company's broodstock started producing fertilised eggs last Tuesday and haven't stopped since according to Mr Stehr.

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It is strange Mr Stehr waited more than a week to cry for joy.

Mr Stehr said the larvae were ferocious eaters, and if they were kept alive would grow to 10 kilograms within a year.

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I think it is possible the author misunderstood Mr Stehr. It would be more belivable if the statement was ...
If the growth rate continued for the year at the same growth rate as the lavae ...
The growth rate of lavae in % is massive sometimes doubling every few weeks. Obviously this is not the case as the fish age. (Please correct me anyone if you believe different)

The biggest hurdles the company face now are the impending infrastructure costs associated with the growout of the tuna.

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This is just one hurdle and possibly the reason for the artical is to prime investors for a capital raising. Time will tell if it is the biggest hurdle.

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

tge oracle said:

I think they reported as soon as practicably possible with this announcement. It would be impossible to stop news from leaking out when there are so many staff working on this project e.g. scientists, hatchery staff, technicians etc. who have just witnessed a major spawning event. All it takes is a phone call.
The complaint I had last year was that it took nearly 3 months for CSS to accurately update the market. I the meantime, certain investors who had market sensitive information were frantically unloading their holdings. It was a disgraceful episode that diminished confidence in CSS and it's management.
I regard market confidence as ,potentially , the most damaging force affecting a listed company. It can rapidly turn catastrophic ( MFS, BNB, ALLCO, ABC etc ) for a company.
On a positive note, I do believe CSS understand the huge mistake they made last year and will keep us all informed in a timely fashion.
Investor confidence will soon return to CSS , particularly, if they achieve success of a scale as recently suggested.

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I think we agree with each other, you just defined it better. There is no real way to stop staff for noticing.

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Oracle and truevalue, You had me in fits of laughter with your income predictions based on so little info. 100 million kg at $22 / kg based only on a couple of litres of lavae and eggs with a years wait.
Do not race out and buy the island and the jet just yet.

but the company is unsure how long it will be able to keep them alive this time because it was not geared up and, at this stage, does not have adequate feed.

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This is a learning curve and things seem to be going very well.
They have repeated their achievements from last year creating viable fertilised eggs and lavae and can repeat it again when needed.
That is great and i am very impressed.

They now have the challenge of the nutritional needs of the lavae as i predicted was a hurdle in a earlier post. This is where they failed last year and where they are now.

I repeat my summary from a previous post that if they have even a hundred fish in the bay this year they will be considered to be a successfull IMO.

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Basilica said:

Oracle and truevalue, You had me in fits of laughter with your income predictions based on so little info. 100 million kg at $22 / kg based only on a couple of litres of lavae and eggs with a years wait.
Do not race out and buy the island and the jet just yet.

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Thanks Basilica always happy to keep you amused.

I was just jumping in on the back of Oracles joke.

I think CSS has stated that, if they can replicate the success they had in YTK they should be able to produce 10,000 tonnes within 5 years of closing the SBT lifecycle.

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

truevalue said:

Thanks Basilica always happy to keep you amused.

I was just jumping in on the back of Oracles joke.

I think CSS has stated that, if they can replicate the success they had in YTK they should be able to produce 10,000 tonnes within 5 years of closing the SBT lifecycle.

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I agree truevalue, 10 million kg 5 years afting closing the lifecycle is achievable (2 million kg/year)
Supply and demand will reduce the $22 / kg significantly of course, by then.
Technically closing the lifecycle is still a long way away.
Mearly solving the pre-fingerling stage still leaves the fingerling to Wild catch size, part of the lifecycle to be mastered.
(but a big hurdle will be passed)

I would loveto know what your and oracle's experience in aquaculture is?
Seems to be some experience in the industry.

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Basilica said:

I agree truevalue, 10 million kg 5 years afting closing the lifecycle is achievable (2 million kg/year)
Supply and demand will reduce the $22 / kg significantly of course, by then.
Technically closing the lifecycle is still a long way away.
Mearly solving the pre-fingerling stage still leaves the fingerling to Wild catch size, part of the lifecycle to be mastered.
(but a big hurdle will be passed)

I would loveto know what your and oracle's experience in aquaculture is?
Seems to be some experience in the industry.

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Basilca, I don't want to say too much but I would describe my knowledge of Tuna fishing as substantial. I realised the importance of Tuna as a valuable sashimi product way back in the late 1970's , early 1980's , when a couple of East coast fshermen ( the Rowley brothers ) pioneered long line fishing for tuna and then air freighted it to Japan within 24 hrs to sell at the Tsukji ( Tokyo ) fish market.
This , of course , has now become commonplace. The Port Lincoln fishermen, including the Stehrs, hadn't even realsied the importnace of this market back then they were still selling Tuna at a fraction of the price to cannery''s but things soon changed when word of the Rowley;s success spread throughout the industry and we now have one of the largest tuna fisheries in the world for sashimi grade tuna.

I view the Stehrs as pioneers in a new phase of the Tuna industry with CSS and again, some 30 years later , I realize the potential as I did back then.

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

tge oracle said:

Basilca, I don't want to say too much but I would describe my knowledge of Tuna fishing as substantial.

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Cool oracle,
My opinion of your opinion has now been confirmed.
I guesed you knew more than a generic invester.
Sushi Tuna is an exellant market to supply and delicous to consume.
I think you will also agree that SBT is not the only Sushi Tuna supplier and northern competitors have an advantage of about 3 years
(but have crap water quality).
The profit margin will need to receed but even at, cost + 30 to 40 % is OK by me.
Do you have any comments on posts 90 and 92?

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Basilica,

I can't claim to have any Aquaculture background at all. I am an investor only.

I have been through the CSS breeding facility at Arno Bay twice and seen their hatchery. I did have the opportunity to meet their hatchery and breeding stock staff, got an education from them in aquaculture and had an opportunity to ask questions for a number of hours.

We also saw the sea cages of YTK at Arno Bay and Port Lincoln and, most impressive of all, the SBT backup broodstock.

I developed an appreciation of the importance of this company and the potential scale of the business while I was there, but I have probably underestimated (due to ignorance) the scientific challenges that have stood in the company's path so far.

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

truevalue said:

Basilica,

I can't claim to have any Aquaculture background at all. I am an investor only.

I have been through the CSS breeding facility at Arno Bay twice and seen their hatchery. I did have the opportunity to meet their hatchery and breeding stock staff, got an education from them in aquaculture and had an opportunity to ask questions for a number of hours.

We also saw the sea cages of YTK at Arno Bay and Port Lincoln and, most impressive of all, the SBT backup broodstock.

I developed an appreciation of the importance of this company and the potential scale of the business while I was there, but I have probably underestimated (due to ignorance) the scientific challenges that have stood in the company's path so far.

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First hand experience truevalue, I would have liked a tour of the facility myself. Do you have any comments on posts 90 and 92?

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Basilica said:

Cool oracle,
My opinion of your opinion has now been confirmed.
I guesed you knew more than a generic invester.
Sushi Tuna is an exellant market to supply and delicous to consume.
I think you will also agree that SBT is not the only Sushi Tuna supplier and northern competitors have an advantage of about 3 years
(but have crap water quality).
The profit margin will need to receed but even at, cost + 30 to 40 % is OK by me.
Do you have any comments on posts 90 and 92?

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Basilica,

I wouldn't get too focused on every minor detail of commentary on CSS. Try to edit out all of the froth and bubble and concentrate on the bigger picture.
Hagen is, naturally , very excited and proud of CSS's achievements so far. He is a true visionary who has not only talked the talk but walked the talk and invested a significant amount in CSS. It is people such as Hagen who define history by creating new industries that others hadn't considered , or, were to scared to take the risk. CSS is risky but, potentially, an industry changing development. Most shareholders in CSS share Hagens vision, I certainly do. As long as the ASX reporting is up tp date, open and transparent I am satiisfied.
As for the capital raising, we all know this will be required for the next phase of the project. I am hoping that existing shareholders will be given a pro-rata entitlement as was the case last time based on a percentage of their present holding.

Finally, it is good to see we have a cross section of experience amongst posters on this thread. We can all learn from each other.

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

I have a quick question for Tge oracle..

do you have any affiliations with the CSS?
your background seems quite extensive about the industry and the company and i have had this question ever since your post on the
14th march 09

I don't know if anybody has had a chance to view the new CSS website but I am very impressed. It has been very professionally constructed with detailed and extensive information about our company and it's products.
This is yet another example of my growing confidence in CSS and it's future. Websites provide a key window into the way a company operates. CSS, to their credit, have always manitained an up to date website that is regularly maintained. You would be surprised how many companies have very poor websites that are not up to date. It is one factor I watch for in the overall quality managemnet of a company. If they can't manage updating their website then what does this say aboiut their management of the company.
CSS are an example of a very high quality company , hence their ISO 14001 and ISO 9001 accreditation.

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I was just wondering if my query is unjustified.