Counting cards - Is it real?

antzlovinit · 27 July 2009

As seen on movies is it possible? Surely its not..Counting almost what 5 decks of cards there is got to be a secret in all of it.

The movie "21" made it easier to understand, lol not so much in reality. "Hangover" and that movie that tom cruise stars in with that numbers freak, and now youtube! +1, -1, 0 when certain cards are turned.

News fact- Australian Casino operators ban 'card counting iPhone application' and heres the link. An application that costs you $2.49 in Feb can return you so much more.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/technolo...ting-iphone-app/2009/02/18/1234632868664.html

Im not saying Im willing to learn but is it possible to rob the casino by counting cards? So is it a myth? Illegal in the eyes of the casino so what is it real? Did any1 even try to learn and did any of you succeed?

and if its true, i wonder if it works on those computer generated blackjack tables? ha!

prawn_86 · 27 July 2009

Essentially it is more about gaining a higher probabilty of winning, than knowing for sure you will win. Much like trading in that way. If you can turn the probabilities in your favour, rather than the house, by monitoring what has come and gone, then its more likely you will have a winning bet.

Mr J · 27 July 2009

It certainly exists, as I used to do it.

Im not saying Im willing to learn but is it possible to rob the casino by counting cards?

You won't rob casinos. First of all, it is legal, though a casino can deny you entry at the table or the casino. Second, it's no way to get rich quick. The edge is small, so profit is gained on volume. Much of the skill is in being able to look like any other patron to avoid being denied service. It's certainly not the 'sexy' job people would assume it to be.

antzlovinit · 27 July 2009

Mr J said:
It certainly exists, as I used to do it.

You won't rob casinos. First of all, it is legal, though a casino can deny you entry at the table or the casino. Second, it's no way to get rich quick. The edge is small, so profit is gained on volume. Much of the skill is in being able to look like any other patron to avoid being denied service. It's certainly not the 'sexy' job people would assume it to be.

Everyone is considered normal as soon as they step in a casino unless you have been chucked out for whatever reason. I think you got to watch those people who keep themselves on low profile. You just need to make profit this week, a loss the next..etc and an annual return of what thousands of dollars. Ahh its only sexy when you know where you stand.

jersey10 · 27 July 2009

Mr J said:
It certainly exists, as I used to do it.

You won't rob casinos. First of all, it is legal, though a casino can deny you entry at the table or the casino. Second, it's no way to get rich quick. The edge is small, so profit is gained on volume. Much of the skill is in being able to look like any other patron to avoid being denied service. It's certainly not the 'sexy' job people would assume it to be.

with automatic card shufflers and 5 or more decks in the machine, how much of an edge can you really gain doing this? I suspect it would be an edge that would be too small to exploit

waz · 27 July 2009

I learnt card counting as well.

They way it works is that you have to start counting right from the first card dealt from the shue. As cards are dealt the probability of you picking high or low cards increases to the point where if there are only 5 cards left, and the count is standing on 5. Then you know for sure there are 5 high cards left.

Then again if it is on 0, then you might have two high, two low and either a 7/8/9.
Then again they could all be 7/8/9.

To combat this, the casino will never deal to the very last card. In fact they would only deal about 60% of the cards in the shue, then start again.

Try it at home, with practice you should be able to get really quick at it, to the point where you can deal out 51 cards in under a min and predict the last card pretty easily. You wont the the exact value of it (thats even harder), however you will know if it is high/medium/low.

Sugar Dunkaton · 27 July 2009

card counting i guess is essentially a probabilities game - time is spent losing little amounts of money and then when the probabilities swing - loading up on the big plays - much like cutting losing trades and letting your winning trades run.

I played poker for a long time in the casinos using a defined strategy, much like trading. With this strategy I left my job for a sustained period of time and played casino poker about 3 times a week, with a stop loss and target in place each time i sat down at the table.

The trick i found was playing pot limit poker instead of no-limit. This meant that each hand you wanted to play - you could limit how much it was going to cost you to go all the way to the end with an average hand, that may win 70% of the time, fold cheaply on rubbish hands and then on hands that you held the nuts - just drag everyone a long. Also playing on the commission tables greatly reduced your outlays, and makes a hell of a difference playing over a long period of time.

the downside. It is utterly depressing being in the casino at 10am in the morning. on a weekday. And risk that you get smoked, time after time after time.

The upside, i was making more than i was working, for less hours at work.

in the end however i did not end up finding it as "sexy" as it had originally been, despite the extra money so i went back to my job and occasionally will go back jsut for a few lazy hands

Mr J · 27 July 2009

jersey10 said:
with automatic card shufflers and 5 or more decks in the machine, how much of an edge can you really gain doing this? I suspect it would be an edge that would be too small to exploit

Can't with ASMs. Good penetration (i.e. most of the available decks used before reshuffle) is required for profitable card counting. Less decks is often better, but 6-8 decks can certainly be profitable, with half-decent rules.

in the end however i did not end up finding it as "sexy" as it had originally been

Much sexier in the movies. Live poker = repetitive play against a bunch of smelly/drunk degenerates. Card counting is the same, but more repetition.

waz · 27 July 2009

against a bunch of smelly/drunk degenerates

haha, Mr J, did you accidently just generalise poker players.

You're are even bigger bundle of joy than me, hehe.

skyQuake · 27 July 2009

Mr J said:
Much sexier in the movies. Live poker = repetitive play against a bunch of smelly/drunk degenerates. Card counting is the same, but more repetition.

I resent being called drunk!

Mr J · 27 July 2009

waz said:
haha, Mr J, did you accidently just generalise poker players.

You're are even bigger bundle of joy than me, hehe.

Wasn't by accident :. I should say that I don't like generalisations unless I'm the one making them!

antzlovinit · 27 July 2009

To combat this, the casino will never deal to the very last card. In fact they would only deal about 60% of the cards in the shue, then start again.

Im surprised cause 60% is dealt then reshuffled. What you got to start counting all over again?

yeh rather then knowing the exact card its better to know the highs/med/lows.

Did anyone ever know when they were going to pull blackjack? and did any1 have a high stake?

I prefer playing red or black on roulette. Learn the player, play the colour!

jersey10 · 27 July 2009

Mr J said:
Much sexier in the movies. Live poker = repetitive play against a bunch of smelly/drunk degenerates.

LOL.

The trade off for sitting with the smelly degenerates is that they are much easier to take money off. I play at the casino a bit and by far the most profitable time of the week is 1AM - 5AM on a Saturday or Sunday morning.

Counting cards - Is it real?

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