Compensation Culture

algis · 12 August 2009

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compensation_culture

You probably see ridiculous claims being made by individuals for injuries or loss caused by some tenuous link to a business or someone with wealth almost every other week.

An example is a tourist who became a paraplegic after diving in Bondi's surf. He sued Waverly Council for more than $3.5M.

Or nurses who are charged for manslaughter due to negligence.

Or KFC being sued for causing brain damage possibly due indirectly by salmonella poisoning.

Insurance required for all organised sporting activities..

I can understand such cases if the defendant willingly, knowingly and intentionally caused the loss to the plaintiff - in which case full compensation and criminal charge be sought, but the cases that I see in the media are simply opportunist.

In my simplistic view:

Wavely Council should perhaps make use of better signage or somesuch... (maybe pay better attention to sandbars and close the beach.., but then who said the beach was a controlled facility meeting certain conditions of safety, suing for paraplegia for being tossed unfortunately by a wave is tantamount to suing for being bitten by a shark or stung by a bluebottle)
Nurses culpable of negligence should perhaps be addressed under an OHSE type law..
KFC be fined for failing to meet health standards.

Remember, accidents sometimes can and do happen. Are people going to sue God, destiny or the laws of physics?

Unless the cause was willful, plaintiffs of such claims should be fined a significant amount for creating a mockery of law and order.

Maybe I've missed something... Your thoughts?

Mr J · 12 August 2009

but the cases that I see in the media are simply opportunist.

That pretty much my view on it - people being opportunistic.

gooner · 12 August 2009

algis said:
Unless the cause was willful, plaintiffs of such claims should be fined a significant amount for creating a mockery of law and order.

Maybe I've missed something... Your thoughts?

You have missed something

Think of the lawyers

They have 5 bedroom mansions in Mosman/Toorak to maintain. New kitchens very five years, gardeners, cleaners. A decent school costs $25,000 a year nowadays. Holidays to the Maldives and Thredbo each year, a new BMW every 3 years. These things are not cheap.

You are talking of taking away these peoples livelihood.

You should be ashamed of yourself:headshake

skyQuake · 12 August 2009

lol, those poor poor lawyers, already in 'rags' after the GFC wiped out many of their best clients like BNB

But on a more serious note, these payouts are more often than not punitive damages designed to make the defendants & its industry "wake up" and conduct a thorough review. Though I do agree sometimes the judges go out of their way to enrich the 'stupid' people beyond sensible measure...

Tourist example is arguable either way. He sees all these people in the water, looks deep, dives in. All pools have shallow water warning...

Nurse negligence once exposed will force the hospital and the industry to have better checks on safety etc. If its just an OH&S fine slapped on the hospital in question, the nurse will get a stern 5min talk and everything will continue on as normal.

KFC poisoning - Again I'm sure there will be some internal review conducted to ensure this type of thing never happens again, due to the potential massive financial penalty, media fallout, and loss of market share etc.
Compare this with a fine by the city council against a bread shop that repeated breached OH&S - first time dead flies, next time moss growing in damp corners, next time rats.. The owners just pay the fine and get on with whatever they're doing.
Cause people are greedy and lazy like that.

moXJO · 12 August 2009

The insurance company pays it, don't they (public/product liability, maybe not the council)? The money is so the people injured can have some means of living. That money has to last them the rest of their existence if they are injured badly.

I don't agree with all frivolous suits. But I think it’s a way for the injured to support themselves. Otherwise its taxpayer funded?

gav · 12 August 2009

The topic of "compensation culture" was raised last night on the ABC show "Tony Robinson's Crime and Punishment". Basically its a short series (last night was the 1st part of 4) about where English law came from, who made them and why. Apparently the Anglicans first introduced compensation, and there were some very bizarre rules. Different compensations depending on what limb you injurred - groin on male cost the most, equivalent to 60 thousand pounds in today's money - because in injuring the groin you were murdering future generations. They also had different amounts of compensation for murder, depending on how 'important' the person was.

Stan 101 · 12 August 2009

gav said:
groin on male cost the most, equivalent to 60 thousand pounds in today's money - because in injuring the groin you were murdering future generations.

Yes, damaging another's "kindling limb" offered large compensation. It was an interesting first episode.

In regard to the OP's point on KFC it is a difficult one. If they were in fact negligent and due to poor food prep caused the injuries to the customer, why shouldn't they be at least partially liable to pay for the customer's wellbeing seeing as she is incapacitated for life.

cheers,

white_crane · 12 August 2009

IMO much of this is about not taking responsibility for one's actions and trying to blame someone (anyone) else for the negative consequences of those actions. Really, would you take the risk of diving into the surf when you don't know the conditions? Whatever happened to self preservation? Sadly, these people are after all they can get - money, money, money.

However, I do believe that there are genuine occasions where compensation and fines should apply - for example if KFC knew that their procedures allowed food to spoil, yet they didn't change them...

Lastly, it's not the lawyers who are at fault, it's the fault of law itself.

Trevor_S · 12 August 2009

tort law is badly in need of reform in Australia IMO

That aside, on the theme of compensation

http://www.smh.com.au/national/compensate-aborigines-or-leave-says-minister-20090810-efoe.html

ALL non-Aboriginal Australians should be prepared to leave the country if the indigenous people want that, making restitution for the vile sin of genocide, an Anglican leader said last night.

If they stayed, they would have to provide whatever recompense indigenous peoples thought appropriate, the Reverend Peter Adam said.

Trevor_S · 12 August 2009

Stan 101 said:
In regard to the OP's point on KFC it is a difficult one. If they were in fact negligent and due to poor food prep caused the injuries to the customer, why shouldn't they be at least partially liable to pay for the customer's wellbeing seeing as she is incapacitated for life.

The evidence presented yesterday stated that the products claimed to have given them food poisoning where not sold.

The other thing I would like to see is harsh penalties for those making unproven allegations. ie if you bring an allegation, it's found to be false (eg false rape accusation), you take on the responsibility for the penalty that would have been imposed if it was. Too many false allegations get washed away. I have been at the end of them, cost me tens of thousand to prove it false, cost the complaint nothing, they were just trying it on.

Julia · 12 August 2009

Trevor_S said:
The other thing I would like to see is harsh penalties for those making unproven allegations. ie if you bring an allegation, it's found to be false (eg false rape accusation), you take on the responsibility for the penalty that would have been imposed if it was. Too many false allegations get washed away. I have been at the end of them, cost me tens of thousand to prove it false, cost the complaint nothing, they were just trying it on.

That's a good idea. Might make a few people think twice before causing mischief.

waza1960 · 12 August 2009

Remember, accidents sometimes can and do happen. Are people going to sue God, destiny or the laws of physics?

The problem is the OHS and legal fraternity don't accept accidents and will always look to blame somebody I guess because of their vested interests.

algis · 13 August 2009

skyQuake said:
But on a more serious note, these payouts are more often than not punitive damages designed to make the defendants & its industry "wake up" and conduct a thorough review.

This is regulation through litigation or tort law and does not make sense. It is simply not a fair system as decisions depend heavily on each individual case, each parties lawyers and the associated cost. If industry requires a wake up, then it should be channeled through regulation not petty claims.

skyQuake said:
Tourist example is arguable either way. He sees all these people in the water, looks deep, dives in. All pools have shallow water warning...

Whatever happened to common sense? This stance is assuming the defendant is guilty until proven innocent.

skyQuake said:
Nurse negligence once exposed will force the hospital and the industry to have better checks on safety etc. If its just an OH&S fine slapped on the hospital in question, the nurse will get a stern 5min talk and everything will continue on as normal.

OHS laws can involve penalties well in excess of $500,000.

skyQuake said:
KFC poisoning - Again I'm sure there will be some internal review conducted to ensure this type of thing never happens again, due to the potential massive financial penalty, media fallout, and loss of market share etc.
Compare this with a fine by the city council against a bread shop that repeated breached OH&S - first time dead flies, next time moss growing in damp corners, next time rats.. The owners just pay the fine and get on with whatever they're doing.
Cause people are greedy and lazy like that.

This is why funding should be diverted from court cases to more preventative measures such as increased fines and vigilance of health standards in some businesses.

Julia · 13 August 2009

Much of the grief involved in this whole subject could be removed if Australia were to copy the NZ model of the Accident Compensation Commission.

This works in a similar way to Medicare here in that everyone pays a levy.

Whenever an accident of any type occurs, all associated costs are paid for by the ACC. Individual work cover type assessments are carried out by a standing committee which ensures a uniform method of assessment and compensation payouts.

I don't suppose the lawyers like it because they simply don't get involved.

Even just the freeing up of the Courts' time makes this arrangement worthwhile, to say nothing of the angst and misery of sueing offenders, waiting for court hearings etc.

Trevor_S · 13 August 2009

Julia said:
Much of the grief involved in this whole subject could be removed if Australia were to copy the NZ model of the Accident Compensation Commission.

I agree. It's quite disheartening to see excellent models for a variety of situations being used in various parts of the world, countries doing things better then us, and we don't adopt their models and use them in Aus.

algis · 15 August 2009

Judge tried to sue dry cleaners $67.3M for lost pants

This went for two years before being settled in favour of the cleaners in 2007. But Judge Pearson has continued on the appeals process as recently as last month. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearson_v._Chung

How this case wasn't stopped with Judge Pearson being told he is retarded after a 5 minute hearing proves that the US tort system is retarded.

Hilarious. Perhaps Judge Pearson is doing the country a favour by desperately trying to prove how retarded the system can be ...at some cost to the Korean cleaners who have had to put up with this nonsense since 2005.

Surly · 15 August 2009

algis said:
OHS laws can involve penalties well in excess of $500,000.

And in at least WA, prison sentences.

cheers
Surly

Bafana · 16 August 2009

Interesting thread. Cut my head the other day in a shop on a glass shelf so have spent the week with people asking me what happened, and after I explained, nearly everyone said I should sue the store.

Since it wasn't that bad and no permanent damage - I have responded that's whats wrong with the world. Too many people suing people over virtually nothing. To which most go quite and only a few agree.

Knobby22 · 16 August 2009

Julia said:
Much of the grief involved in this whole subject could be removed if Australia were to copy the NZ model of the Accident Compensation Commission.

This works in a similar way to Medicare here in that everyone pays a levy.

Whenever an accident of any type occurs, all associated costs are paid for by the ACC. Individual work cover type assessments are carried out by a standing committee which ensures a uniform method of assessment and compensation payouts.

I don't suppose the lawyers like it because they simply don't get involved.

Even just the freeing up of the Courts' time makes this arrangement worthwhile, to say nothing of the angst and misery of sueing offenders, waiting for court hearings etc.

Exactly. We would do it if it wasn't a fact that a large percentage of our politicians are lawyers.

algis · 28 September 2009

Man sues Bank of America for 1784 billion, trillion dollars

Hilarious!

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