michael_selway
Coal & Phosphate, thats it!
- Joined
- 20 October 2005
- Posts
- 2,397
- Reactions
- 2
nizar said:sugar the NEXT big mover?? it HAS moved heaps already...
tend to agree with the rest... OXR is making big money, maybe $1million a day NETT...
any predictions on zinc?
maybe $1.50/lb
michael_selway said:Btw how did u get OXR 1 mil a day net?
nizar said:Sepon:
a) Gold: 200,307oz @ cost of us$201/oz
net revenue = 200,307*(550-201)*0.74 = au$51,731,285
b) Copper: 60,000tonnes @ cost of us$1.00/lb
net revenue = 60,000*2.2*1,000*(2.20-1.00)*0.74 = au$117,216,000
Golden Grove:
c) Zinc: 130,000tonnes @ cost of us$0.32/lb
net revenue = 130,000*2.2*1,000*(1.00-0.32)*0.74 = au$143,915,200
d) Copper: 10,000tonnes
net revenue = 1/6*b = au$19,536,000
e) Gold: 40,000tonnes
net revenue = 40,000*(500-201)*0.74 = au$10,330,400
Total = au$342,728,885
Tax @ 30% = au$102,818,665
NPAT = au$239,910,220
Per day = au$657,288
so i was way off, my bad, but still a good figure. PLus i didn't consider silver from GG which is 3million oz and lead at 8,000tonnes coz they didnt have costs in UK presentation. That's where i got all my figures from.
And i used Cu at 2.20, Zn at 1.00, and gold at 550, aud to usd ex rate of 0.74
also, by 2008
Prominent Hill to add 90-100,000 tonnes of Cu, 110-130,000 tonnes of Zn and 420,000 oz of gold
Sepon Cu output will double by 2009...
So good times ahead for the Ox..
dodgers said:Just been looking back at that Jim Rogers interview...
anyone know a good way to gain exposure to agricultural commodities...sugar, grain, coffee etc
cheers
dodgers said:Just been looking back at that Jim Rogers interview...
anyone know a good way to gain exposure to agricultural commodities...sugar, grain, coffee etc
cheers
crackaton said:So where do you see us going this time round?
michael_selway said:Good Point
I think we are at a stage called "bubble territory". No real fundamentals, just follow commodity prices. So a crash is inevitable. However it needs to go high enough to trigger a calapse. That is, a "superspike" is a beginning of the end. However atm, bubble is not big enough.
michael_selway said:IMO, i think market crash will occur in 2007 or 2008, latest after Beijing Olympics.
Think of China and India, for example. China is the world’s leading exporter and is developing an enormous manufacturing base unequalled in world history. The Chinese people are slowly growing more prosperous over time and are starting to demand more commodities, everything from oil to transport goods to food to lumber to increase their standard of living. With over a billion Chinese striving for American standards of per-capita commodity consumption, this current Great Commodities Bull ought to dwarf any other in history!
And India has another billion people of its own, with the same hopes and dreams as the Chinese or American people to create better lives for themselves and increase the standard of living for their children. The Indians are training the best engineers and scientists in the world today, and their stellar standards of education make American public schools look like illiterate day-care playgrounds. As the Indians start to earn and consume like Americans, their demand for commodities will be insatiable as well.
If you can imagine over two billion Asians seeking to live and enjoy the abundances of life like we Americans do today, and we are less than one-seventh of this number, it is not hard to understand why we are almost certainly in the earliest stages of a breathtaking commodities superbull!
Cyclically we are emerging from a brutal bust and multi-decade commodities bottom in late 2001, with nowhere to go but up. Psychologically there was no major investment class more hated than commodities only a few years ago, a contrarian’s dream. Fundamentally vastly insufficient capital has been invested in commodities production for the past decade, so economically commodity supply cannot keep up with global demand for many years to come.
Geopolitically, there are over two billion Asians working beyond hard to bring an American standard of living to their families. They will need to collectively consume unthinkable amounts of commodities to chase this dream. From an inflation perspective, governments around the world are multiplying their paper currencies like there is no tomorrow, so there is more and more paper floating around for every given unit of commodities, driving up their nominal prices around the globe.
Can you imagine a better recipe for a commodities superbull? I doubt that we could craft a more bullish scenario if we tried!
nizar said:Im keen to know why u have maintained this theory, about Beijing Olympics being the driver of metals demand. This is NOT THE CASE. From 1960-1980 was the period where Japan underwent industrialisation and commodity prices were in a 20-year bullmarket. THe current bullmarket is due to the people of INdia and CHina, totaling 2.3billion people, are pulling themselves out of poverty and begin to modernise their lifestyles. There are no Olympics in India,
YOUNG_TRADER said:Just to point out that India has the 2010 CommonWealth Games
nizar said:OOoops sorry my bad, but does any1 really think this is the main driver of demand ?
I just questioned it coz i never read it anywhere thats all..
Keen to hear thoughts..
michael_selway said:Hi Nizar, i just think the the Beijing Olympics, is the "Super Dirver" of demand for commodities right now in China. Btw Commonwealth Games is no where near as robust as what Olympics Games can bring to an economy, literally billions in GDP growth.
so after that, its not going to drop to 0 or anything, just a slow down in demand. However this small retreat will trigger a collapse. It makes sense. You can say a HUGE correction rather than a Bear Market, if you wish. Also supply response will come on board, as you have said KZL, copper production increases dramtically by then.
But thanks IMO only
Thanks
MS
I am genuinely moving into the "crazy" and very small camp that believes the genuine "super spike" in commodities could evolve later this year. That is completely contrary to the consensus view of imminent commodity price collapse. I can't think of one domestic investor who is positioned in the equity market for the "super spike" scenario, but I can name dozens who are positioned for the commodity price collapse scenario. Let's see what comes, but remember you never overtake anyone by staying in the same lane. It's probably also not wise to drive head on into a billion urbanising Chinese!
Charlie Aitken
Director
Head of Institutional Dealing
Southern Cross Equities
They're wrong about oil, by George
Rip up your textbooks, the doubling of oil prices has little to do with China's appetite
Anatole Kaletsky
SNIP:
Just as the credit crunch seemed to be passing, at least in the US, another and much more ominous financial crisis has broken out. The escalation of oil prices, which this week reached a previously unthinkable $130 a barrel (with predictions of $150 and $200 soon to come), threatens to do far more damage to the world economy than the credit crunch.
SNIP:
The present commodity and oil boom shows all the classic symptoms of a financial bubble, such as Japan in the 1980s, technology stocks in the 1990s and, most recently, housing and mortgages in the US. But surely, you will say, this commodity boom is different? Surely it is driven by profound and lasting changes in global supply and demand:
SNIP:
To see that these “fundamentals” are all irrelevant, we have merely to ask which of them has changed in the past nine months. The answer is none. The oil markets didn't suddenly discover China's oil demand nine months ago so this cannot explain the doubling of prices since last August. In fact, China's “insatiable” demand growth has decelerated.
SNIP:
The people who tell you that commodity prices today are driven by “economic fundamentals” are the same ones who said that house prices in Britain were rising because of land shortages. The amazing thing is that just months after losing hundreds of billions in the housing and mortgage bubbles, investors and governments around the world have reverted to the discredited fallacy that financial markets always reflect economic reality, instead of the boom-bust cycles and misconceptions that George Soros's book vividly describes.
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