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Climate change another name for Weather

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Still raining here.

Now the New Scientist not known to be kind to those of reason is coming around to debunking the Gore Kool Effect.

There was also no significant warming trend from between 1977 and 1985, or between 1981 and 1989 - and those periods certainly weren't the end of global warming. Now, as if more evidence were needed, two climate scientists have produced more data showing that the current lull in no way contradicts the fact that human emissions of greenhouse gases are causing long-term warming.


http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2009/04/has-global-warming-really-stop.html

gg
 

Agreed
 
Now the New Scientist not known to be kind to those of reason is coming around to debunking the Gore Kool Effect.

Full publication of the New Scientist blog on Global warming actually shows the scientific background of the arguments and the intent of the writer.


Categories: Environment
 
Everyone was so gung ho about saving our environment, melting pola bears and carbon foot prints. Dont hear much about it anymore? Been placed in the to hard basket! Wear so busy trying to save ourselves financially.
 
Are any forum readers interested in the scientific analysis of the oft repeated arguments that GW is basically BS.? I came across an excellent website which managed to discuss all the arguments with both good references and a relatively easy to understand language.

Cheers

http://www.skepticalscience.com/

 
What a misserable day the market is closed and its raining outside..
Stupid climate change it hasnt rained here for atleast 10years on the 13th of april...
Hang on that means it has happened before.. Big deal get over it maybe we should just adjust to our climate for a change instead of changing it to suit us..
Umbrella today..
 
Everyone was so gung ho about saving our environment, melting pola bears and carbon foot prints. Dont hear much about it anymore? Been placed in the to hard basket! Wear so busy trying to save ourselves financially.
It's no secret that there's a relationship between environmentalism and economic cycles with both peaking at the same time.

If those who seek to "save the earth no matter what the economic cost" get their way then we'll end up trashing the entire planet as both the economy and concern for the environment fall in a hole. Plenty of third world examples of just that and some closer to home too.
 
In the SMH 13th April - yesterday in the Opinion section of the News, there was an interesting article.

Professor Ian Plimer Australia's eminent geologist has written a book entitled, Heaven and Earth.

"An understanding of climate requires an amalgamation of astronomy, solar physics, geology, geochronology, geochemistry, sedimentology, tectonics, palaeontology, palaeoecology, glaciology, climatology, meterology, oceanography, ecology, archaeology and history".

He doesn't dispute the dramatic flux in climate change "Calculations on supercomputers are primitive compared with the complex dynamism of the Earth's climate and ignore the curcial relationship between climate and solar energy".

Should be interesting reading.
 
I read that piece with interest. Plimer is one of my heroes because of his consistent political campaign against the pretence that creationism is science, so his equally consistent campaign against political action to change civilisation-caused carbon emissions troubles me.

Without seeing the book, which is not yet published, comment is obviously speculative. So I speculate that Plimer's long view is too long for human civilisation. Certainly earth has known periods hotter than are now predicted for this century and beyond, and it's quite capable of sequestering all the carbon we've been putting into the air and oceans and cooling down again. But the planet is already about as warm as humans have ever known and is warming faster than humans have ever known. I don't think there's a serious risk that we'll wipe ourselves out. I do think there's a serious risk of a population crash and collapse of civilisation if humans don't change our behaviour quickly. That won't affect the planet any more than the exinction of the dinosaurs did, or even the collapse of the Mayans or the Roman empire. But it sure ain't what I'd like for my descendants.

Ghoti
 

I can see why it would. I wasn't aware of his work against creationist stupidity but from the few selective quotes from the article, I not sure that his new book is anything more than opinion.

Below is a talk from last August, again, a bit light on scientific facts, and considering this speech and the title of his new book 'Heaven and Earth', I'm inclined to give it a miss.


 
I've never paid much attention to global warming. Noise, coincidence, factors we don't know of or understand etc, it just seems there's too much uncertainty to take such a strong stand against it. To me it just sounds like the herd jumping on the latest bull market. I'm surprised so many scientists go along with it, but then there's no law that states scientists can't be fools, have agendas or ruled by fear.

That said, while I have serious doubts about global warming, there's nothing wrong with keeping our environment reasonably clean. After all, we have to live in it. As I type this, I look out at the cloud of smog hovering above the harbour .
 
The scientists that "go along with it" are the ones involved, for the main, in specific and concentrated research that suggests man-made influences are speeding what otherwise what could be "normal" or natural processes.
There is an increasing pool of active "deniers" who prefer to believe that man has had no impact on climate change, and generally latch onto discredited science that is constantly regurgitated - the "throw enough mud principle".
It seems that as more information is comes out each year that supports the AGW hypothesis, the bigger the effort to "deny" its veracity.
 
I have tried to keep an open mind on this issue but I do believe these guys as apposed to the politics of yes and no groups.

Today's Australian


http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25349683-601,00.html
 
Dr Allison on to say which is fact, the majority of ice beneath the water surface will not raise sea levels (no brainer which most haven't thought about). It is the exposed ice above the sea level in these regions. Most of the focus has been on Greenland and the Artic, But the convertor current has the warm water flowing towards greenland before it plunges down alongside Canada. The Antarctica receives the full blast of deep cold older water on the converter belt.

There is Climate Change no doubt about it. I wouldn't be surprised if after warming things get very cold very fast. Dependant on the converter belt. I wish there was more upto date information as it has a more profound effect directly on our weather.
 

Just like a stock price; after it goes up it comes down. Though, I think not a hold and forget approcach to cyclical conditions. The stupidity we see from investors also applies to man made climate change propagandists.
 
Prof.Plimer is the main force extant in the cause against the "Church of Climatology"

Now please READ HIS BOOK.

And can we please now end this thread.

It is a honeypot for the disastrous left, who now have only the Weather to blame for the lack of uptake of their disastrous leftie ideas.

Perhaps Joe should endow the power to have a thread ended by its originator after exhaustive left wing nitpicking Gorebore anti democratic whingeing godbothering people who don't respect the other side of the argument.

gg
 
When it's clearly "proven" that there is no case supporting climate change then the thread will come to its natural end.
Plimer makes many good points, and much has been mentioned of them in one way or another in this thread.
He cannot, however, show that man's massive consumption (read "burning") of carbon-based fuels in less than 2 centuries, has a natural precedent.
Nor can he show that the destruction of carbon sinks (read "clearing of forests") ever previously occurred so rapidly.
Moreover, neither Plimer nor any other scientist has demonstrated that increasing atmospheric CO2 levels can lead to significant and sustained global cooling.
 
Well GG, If you start a thread with a deliberately (I think) provocative title you can't really complain if people continue to be provoked.

Climate change is not another name for weather. An argument that pretends they are the same thing is never going to get anywhere. Neither is an argument that jumps from science to public policy and back again without being sure that all parties are talking about the same thing.

There is not and never will be clear, 100% reliable knowledge of what the weather will be at any given point on the earth on any given day under any given carbon emission scenario, but that's not what climate science is about. I think this blog posting is a pretty good summary of how scientists (including Plimer) think and why many of them believe the policy issues of climate change are acute even though there are many unanswered scientific questions. It's from Michael Tobin at http://initforthegold.blogspot.com/2008/05/falsifiability-question.html.


Ghoti
 

According to Dictionary.com climate is weather conditions. So if climate changes weather conditions change. So climate is another name for weather. Source:http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/climate
 
And can we please now end this thread.

It is a honeypot for the disastrous left, who now have only the Weather to blame for the lack of uptake of their disastrous leftie ideas.

Dear GG

You give me the giggles - fancy a leftie like me talking about Pilmer.

We just drove 900 kms from South Melbourne to Sydney yesterday and the climate changed several times!! sporatic buckets of heavy rain to greet us. Tomorrow the final journey to the High country where I'm sure it will be different again.

Completing the obligatory L's, my daughter do 120 hours of driving with me I elected to burn through diesel (I make no apologies for any damage this does - my car is maintained - this is a job to be done) close to 4000 kms on all types of road (would have driven me crazy going around the suburbs) in the span of 6 days. She has done exceedingly well
 
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