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Climate change another name for Weather

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ROFL

Those who are 'in denial' of climate change have a mental disorder.

 

http://www.theage.com.au/national/climates-11th-hour-20090308-8sg9.html?page=-1

2000 scientists are going Coppenhagen tomorrow to review the latest evidence on the rate at which climate change is occurring and the outcome for our civilisation if this comes to pass.

The above extract from The Age gives a small indication of where we stand.

And yet, and yet....Around the world millions of people many of high intelligence and well placed in business and politics insist vehemently that the observations of the overwhelming majority of the scientific community are simply wrong and that these events will either not happen, be acceptably small in size or whatever.

The reality of climate change is terrifying. It always was. It is far more psychologically comforting to deny its possibility or reality. There is nothing surprising about that. But as King Canute aptly proved all the denial in the world cannot stop the tides.
 
Climate change is not deniable because it happens and has happened for thousands of years, perhaps billions.

But to deny debate on the topic and to insist that any scepticism of man made global warming is VALID without proper debate with SCIENTISTS, that denial of debate is pathetic.
 

There is no educated argument that ocean acidification is caused by anything other than humanity.
Ocean acidification is caused by increased levels of Carbon Dioxide being absorbed by the sea which is directly due to man's activity.
 
There is no educated argument that ocean acidification is caused by anything other than humanity.
Ocean acidification is caused by increased levels of Carbon Dioxide being absorbed by the sea which is directly due to man's activity.

The oceans currently have a ph of just over 8, which is alkaline.
So you could just say they are possibly becoming less alkaline due to CO2 (only anthropogenic I presume), but that just isn't scary enough.

How long till the oceans actually become acidic?
 

Answering that question would mean modelling and we can't have any of that!
The real problem is that as the oceans become more acidic, the harder it is for sea creatures to form shells and corals. Obviously if the oceam became acidic it would be impossible. Limestone (Calcium carbonate) will dissolve in acidic conditions.
 

Of course you can have models. You just need to understand their limits.

Do you have a souce for this (red)? What part of the world was this study done and at what depth?

 
The thing about sience is that there are no certainties, only theorys.
But the Royal Society, no less, has concerns.


http://royalsociety.org/document.asp?id=3249

Ocean acidification due to increasing atmospheric carbon dioxide
30 Jun 2005

Carbon dioxide (CO2) emitted to the atmosphere by human activities is being absorbed by the oceans, making them more acidic (lowering the pH the measure of acidity).

Evidence indicates that emissions of carbon dioxide from human activities over the past 200 years have already led to a reduction in the average pH of surface seawater of 0.1 units and could fall by 0.5 units by the year 2100. This pH is probably lower than has been experienced for hundreds of millennia and, critically, at a rate of change probably 100 times greater than at any time over this period.

The report outlines our best understanding of the impacts of these chemical changes on the oceans. The impacts will be greater for some regions and ecosystems, and will be most severe for coral reefs and the Southern Ocean. The impacts of ocean acidification on other marine organisms and ecosystems are much less certain. We recommend a major international research effort be launched into this relatively new area of research.

We recommend that action needs to be taken now to reduce global emissions of CO2 from human activities to the atmosphere to avoid the risk of irreversible damage from ocean acidification.
 
Of course you can have models. You just need to understand their limits.

Do you have a souce for this (red)? What part of the world was this study done and at what depth?

Southern Ocean. News reports referred to sampling from the ocean floor for historical comparisons but that's not included in the freely available abstract of this particular paper, which is on the Web at

http://www.pnas.org/content/105/48/18860.abstract

The link to Supporting Information leads to a PDF which includes information about the sample locations but not the depths. The full article costs $US10.

The documentary "Crude - the Incredible Journey of Oil" goes into the relationship between ocean chemistry and atmospheric CO2. It's available on DVD, or at http://www.abc.net.au/science/crude/

Ghoti
 
It seems scientists keep coming out against the man made propaganda:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25182520-2703,00.html
Any thoughts on the article?
 
It would appear that the IPCC models are leaning on the conservative side of the climate curve and things may be worse than most expected.
While the skeptics conjure media attention by virtue of their skepticism alone, many climate scientists are getting on with the business of determining the actual extents and effects of an increasingly warmer atmosphere.
 
What Was the Copenhagen Climate Change Conference Really About?

Viewpoint / by Mike Hulme / March 13, 2009

It's problematic when largely unresolved debates among the world's climate change researchers get reduced to six key messages.

http://seedmagazine.com/content/art...hagen_climate_change_conference_really_about/

 
What Was the Copenhagen Climate Change Conference Really About?

Viewpoint / by Mike Hulme / March 13, 2009

It's problematic when largely unresolved debates among the world's climate change researchers get reduced to six key messages.
Had Hulme used his noggin, he would have worked out that the 6 key messages were based on the respective conference themes.
Alas, he's not too bright.
With around a thousand presentations to cover across a few hundred sessions it would be impractical to package a comprehensive conference summary immediately it ended.
That's why they said
The preliminary conclusions of the congress will be developed in a synthesis report to be published in June and forwarded to participants at the UN Climate Change Conference in December in Copenhagen.
 



One of the main reasons that sceptics such as I are suspicious of the results of the innumerable conferences is the lack of clarity in the results of all this hot air.

A few quotes.

Vague forms of speech have so long passed for mysteries of science; and hard words mistaken for deep learning, that it will not be easy to persuade either those who speak or those who hear them, that they are but a hindrance to true knowledge.

* John Locke, 1690

I have made this letter longer that usual because I lack the time to make it shorter.

* Blaise Pascal

If you cannot - in the long run - tell everyone what you have been doing, your doing has been worthless.

* Erwin Schrodinger (Nobel Prize winner in physics)

Whatever is worth saying can be stated in fifty words or less.

* Stan Ulam, world-famous mathematician

gg
 
One of the main reasons that sceptics such as I are suspicious of the results of the innumerable conferences is the lack of clarity in the results of all this hot air.
gg
A conference is just a vehicle for a lot of information.
Sift through the information for better understanding.
Don't blame the conference for your shortcomings.
(And only 25 words, exclusive!!!)
 
But to deny debate on the topic and to insist that any scepticism of man made global warming is VALID without proper debate with SCIENTISTS, that denial of debate is pathetic.
What do climate change deniers want to debate?
The scientific arena continues to provide a forum for debate, while past issues seem to have been pretty well covered.
Global warming is proven. Debating it is a waste of time.
The manmade contribution to warming is not proven beyond doubt. On the balance of probabilities our science suggests that forcings from increased CO2 levels have had an impact.
Intellectually moribund deniers of climate change regurgitate ad infinitum the slim pickings of a now decimated camp. Repackaging themselves as "skeptics" they hide in their twisted wreck of junk science thinking they are immune from justifying their perverse beliefs.
"Oh, it's just weather."
Isn't it just.
 
It would appear that the IPCC models are leaning on the conservative side of the climate curve and things may be worse than most expected.


Surely, you could only consider a model conservative if the projections made are below observations.

What data or alternate models imply that things may be worse than expected based on current emissions scenarios?
 
GG it's not the results but the conclusion of the results that is the problem. Agenda gratifying interpretations. Perhaps 21 of them.

Quote Source: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25182520-2703,00.html
Dr Maruyama said many scientists were doubtful about man-made climate-change theory, but did not want to risk their funding from the government or bad publicity from the mass media, which he said was leading society in the wrong direction.
 
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