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Climate change another name for Weather

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I am not a scientist, merely an ordinary person trying to make sense of the millions of words written daily on weather and warming.

Sometimes when one gets a headache from reading the arguments it is useful to pull back the ottoman and have a smoke. I find this solves many problems as smoke rings rising are finite.

This argument is similar to the ones the godbotherers of old had about how many angels would fit on the head of a needle.

Millions of words, valid arguments and all for nought.

Use reason not empirical arguments.

And no more bloody graphs.

gg
 
Sorry nothing states that man has created climate change or global warming. And notheing ever will that is totally complete in both fact and reality. It is a fractal world and there are too many unknowns.
 

Thanks for the link red and I'll have a look at it seriously and respond if I have the talent to do so.
 
Sorry nothing states that man has created climate change or global warming. And notheing ever will that is totally complete in both fact and reality. It is a fractal world and there are too many unknowns.

Now we are getting somewhere.

Weather is a chaotic system, not linear or graphic.

A wise observation Snake.

gg
 
It makes sense GG. Have you read Mandelbroit? Good read if you haven't. Taleb has some interesting stuff to say too.

Nick and I email frequently.

I've never met Mandelbrot, but have read all his books and articles.

The best of science.

The best of reason.

It leaves these jokers with their graphs for dead.

gg
 
Nick and I email frequently.

I've never met Mandelbrot, but have read all his books and articles.

The best of science.

The best of reason.

It leaves these jokers with their graphs for dead.

gg
That's good. I have only read their books and some articles.
This is the real science.
 
The dispute about global warming whether conducted here or anywhere else on the earth has very little interest in reality.

When I look around and look to history one can see how completely opposite points of view can be vehemently asserted as "right". In most cases proponents of each view have a special interest in making sure their argument wins, or is accepted or stays as the existing paradigm. Consider for example arguments abut the morality of slavery versus the rights of property owners and free enterprise. Perhaps the possibility ( probability..!) of smoking causing cancers versus the rights of individuals to do as they please and the rights of the market to freely sell their products.

Right now we have Israel launching wave after wave of attacks to protect or avenge itself against rockets fired into its territory. In Russia Stalin is being voted as one of the most important persons in their history and in fact is being rehabilitated.

So its no surprise that with one of the most critical issues that faces us and one that will require the most profound changes in behavior and consequences the desire to "win" is fierce. If we truly understand and accept that global warming is happening and in particular happening far quicker than we thought even a few years ago then the changes that need to be made are massive.

So with this in mind how realistic is it for a very human population that wants to continue in its current lifestyle to really come to terms with an upheaval that cannot be compared to anything else in living memory? It's a hard ask isn't it?

The trouble with vehement denials of global warming, ridicule of scientists, comments about other agendas of "global warmeners" is that they cannot change a physical reality that is taking place largely as a result of our actions. Reality trumps politics

My feeling is it would be far more constructive to open another conversation on how we might collectively tackle/adapt/survive what will be the biggest challenge facing our collective humanity. You don't actually have to be a "global warming believer" to have some sharp ideas on how we might reduce our impact on the planet, de carbonise the economy (if only to recognise that we will run out of fossil fuels and so on.

Obviously people who wish to continue the debate on whether GW is just weather can continue to do so here.

Any thoughts?

Cheers
_______________________________________

Global Warming and Peak oil - The right solutions, right now
 

As the person who started this thread I feel it is reasonable to reply to you Basilio.

You sound like a reasonable person and your arguments are moot.

Unfortunately many folk with less knowledge than you follow a political agenda which some would describe as fascist.It is all about weather.!!

I have many friends who are farmers who look at the sky as often as at their crops.

Many posters who share your opinions live in squalid terraces in cities.

Most country folk would resent you hijacking this thread to a citified base.

gg
 
Sorry nothing states that man has created climate change or global warming. And notheing ever will that is totally complete in both fact and reality. It is a fractal world and there are too many unknowns.

Now we are getting somewhere.

Weather is a chaotic system, not linear or graphic.

A wise observation Snake.

gg

But, but, but... our rederob claims climate is not a chaotic system.

I'll take Mandelbrot over Monbiot anyday. Point well made guys.
 
Sorry nothing states that man has created climate change or global warming. And notheing ever will that is totally complete in both fact and reality. It is a fractal world and there are too many unknowns.
So man's emissions of CFCs had no impact on the ozone layer?
And the ozone layer can't impact on climate?
More to the point, man can never have an impact of climate, according to your reckoning, because we could never prove it factually or in reality. And that's because its a "fractal world" where there are too many unknowns.
Weather is complex.
It's a dynamic systems that defies statistically reliable predictability beyond about 5 days.
Does this mean we cannot predict the likely minimum and maximum temperature ranges for the weather you will experience where you live, on this day next year? For that matter, let's jump ahead 20 years: Chances are that (with or without "climate change") we wouldn't have to change those values.
 
Thanks Wayne.

The sun rose in the East today

I slept through it.

It was very hot mid 30's I'd reckon through the day.

It became very overcast just before suset.

The sun set in the west.

As I speak a soft rain is falling, giving wonderful smells to garpalhouse.

Garpaldog is chasing a possum along a fence with little hope of ever catching it.

Aint weather magnificent?

gg
 
Main difference with the CFC issue is the relative simplicity of implementing alternatives whereas the CO2 issue relates directly to energy and thus to everything.

To my understanding, ozone doesn't really impact climate in a big way, at least not in terms of the likely ozone levels we'd realistically be contemplating. I think there's a lot of confusion with people thinking that ozone depletion and climate change are the same thing or at least closely related - apsrt from CFC's adding to both there's not much of a link in practice.

As to weather predictability, well I think you're fairly safe predicting that it will be warm in Brisbane during January and fairly cold in Canberra during July.
 
Red thanks for your thoughts.
Aparantly the CFC's had an impact on the ozone layer. It seems we have found that in time to try to help the hole.
When it is a sunny forecast I take an umbrella.
Cheers..
 
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