Garpal Gumnut
Ross Island Hotel
- Joined
- 2 January 2006
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Basilo did you read the latest report from U.S. Climate Change Science Program ? Available from http://climatescience.gov
Quote:
Considerable effort is now underway to improve the models, but it is far from complete, leaving us unable to make reliable predictions of ice-sheet responses to a warming climate if such glacier accelerations were to increase in size and frequency. It should be noted that there is also a large uncertainty in current model predictions of the atmosphere and ocean temperature changes which drive the ice-sheet changes, and this uncertainty could be as large as that on the marginal flow response.
CCSP vs The Independant?
http://climatescience.gov/Library/sap/sap3-4/final-report/sap3-4-press-release.pdfAbrupt Climate Change: Will It Happen this Century?
The United States faces the potential for abrupt climate change in the 21st century that could pose clear risks to society in terms of our ability to adapt.
“Abrupt” changes can occur over decades or less, persist for decades more, and cause substantial disruptions to human and natural systems.
A new report, based on an assessment of published science literature, makes the following conclusions about the potential for abrupt climate changes from global warming during this century.
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Climate model simulations and observations suggest that rapid and sustained September arctic sea ice loss is likely in the 21st century.
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The southwestern United States may be beginning an abrupt period of increased drought.
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It is very likely that the northward flow of warm water in the upper layers of the Atlantic Ocean, which has an important impact on the global climate system, will decrease by approximately 25–30 percent. However, it is very unlikely that this circulation will collapse or that the weakening will occur abruptly during the 21st century and beyond.
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An abrupt change in sea level is possible, but predictions are highly uncertain due to shortcomings in existing climate models.
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There is unlikely to be an abrupt release of methane, a powerful greenhouse gas, to the atmosphere from deposits in the earth. However, it is very likely that the pace of methane emissions will increase.
The U.S. Geological Survey led the new assessment, which was authored by a team of climate scientists from the federal government and academia. The report was commissioned by the U.S. Climate Change Science Program with contributions from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and the National Science Foundation.
“This report was truly a collaborative effort between world renowned scientists who provided objective, unbiased information that is necessary to develop effective adaptation and mitigation strategies that protect our livelihood,” said USGS Director Mark Myers. “It summarizes the scientific community’s growing understanding regarding the potential for abrupt climate changes and identifies areas for additional research to further improve climate models.”
Further research is needed to improve our understanding of the potential for abrupt changes in climate. For example, the report’s scientists found that processes such as interaction of warm ocean waters with the periphery of ice sheets and ice shelves have a greater impact than previously known on the destabilization of ice sheets that might accelerate sea-level rise.
(This is the conclusion reached by the scientists reported in The Independent)
To view the full report, titled Synthesis and Assessment Product 3.4: Abrupt Climate Change, and a summary brochure on abrupt climate change, visit http://www.climatescience.gov/default.php.
Thanks for the tip off Spooly. I did check out the website and the report. Did you have an opportunity to read the information in its entirety ? I suspect that the section you have quoted has been very selectively picked up and flogged around the world as another example of the "uncertainty" surrounding rapid climate change.
.. And for some perspective again from the head of the IPCC.
"What the IPCC produces is not based on two years of literature, but 30 or 40 years of literature. We're not dealing with short-term weather changes, we're talking about major changes in our climate system. I refuse to accept that a few papers are in any way going to influence the long-term projections the IPCC has come up with." :bs:
spooly said:… and don't suspect anything, read it all. It's about modelling uncertainty with regard to Ice Sheets and their Effects on Sea Level only.
"Selectively picked and flogged around the world"... LOL, the irony!
PS Have you ever read the IPCC report on levels of certainty? confidence etc? They're scientists m8
My aim here is solely to illustrate the extent of mass misinformation on this subject.The level of public misinformation on this whole issue is incredible. I'd guess that no more than 5% of people here (or anywhere else) could explain why replacing the bulbs at home with energy savers actually leads to a slight increase in emissions, not a decrease. Same as they couldn't explain why switching from electric hot water to solar will have zero net impact on emissions either way (assuming coal is used to generate the power).
Anyone game to have a go at answering that question? It's a simple answer that doesn't relate to power station efficiency or anything technical like that. Just about everyone has actually heard the answer already via the media and it's been widely discussed on this forum. It's just that the politics and commercial interests have effectively covered it up in order to profit - and that's my point.
Any takers?
yeah but ... there's less waste (if you step down to lesser wattage lamps for instance - your example you'll recall) and hence more productive use of that "can".It's the same with CO2 now. We've decided on 190 cans and that's what's going to happen. Nothing even a large corporation does will alter the final outcome.
Gentlefolk, have a close look at the graph posted by 2020Hindsight titled "Global Annual Mean Surface Temperature Anomaly"
Note that in the period 1910 to 1940 the temperature rose by half a degree, the same as in the period 1970 to 2000. But from 1910 to 1940 greenhouse gas emissions by humans was a small fraction of that in the second period. A reasonable interpretation of the graph is that up to 1970 all variations were "natural", ie due to changes in sunlight or other non-human causes. After 1970, humans probably caused some of the increase.
However, though the model captures the gross features of twentieth century climate change, it remains likely that some of the differences between model and observation still reflect the limitations of the model and/or our understanding of the histories of the observed forcing factors.
In the lower portion of the figure are the results of additional simulations in which the model was operated with only one forcing factor used at a time. A key conclusion of the Meehl et al. (2004) work is that the model response to all factors combined is to a good approximation equal to the sum of the responses to each factor taken individually
[However] ....
Note that "Net" reflects the model runs with all factors included and is not identical to simply summing the individual factors.
Indeed it does. But if it's the social drinker staying totally sober so that the loud mouth alcoholic can guzzle massive amounts then I see a problem there. In practice, that's exactly what seems to be happening so far.yeah but ... there's less waste (if you step down to lesser wattage lamps for instance - your example you'll recall) and hence more productive use of that "can".
i.e. it goes to a thirstier man
Incidentally Smurf,Smurf said:Two obvious points from these charts:
1. There is a warming trend.
2. Warming over the period 1910 - 1940 and 1978 - 2008 occurred at about the same rate of 0.5 to 0.6 over a 30 year period ...
c. Not shown on the chart is that CO2 emissions during the period 1978 - 2008 were far higher than during the period 1910 - 1940 and yet the extent of warming was almost identical. That very strongly suggests that there are factors other than CO2 at work here.
...
d. I note an approximately 30 year cycle seems to exist at least during the 20th Century. It could be argued that the 1940's - 1970's period should have cooled more than it did but CO2 emissions worked to keep temperatures higher.
e. But if that is the case, then you would logically expect the rate of warming since the late 1970's to have exceeded that during the 1910 - 1940 period which it clearly hasn't.
A little assistance with your scientific learning GG.I'm not very learned or as scientifically constipated as many on this thread...
They found fossils from millions of years ago 50 feet above the level of the river.
Think about it. 50 feet ABOVE the river level.
My reason tells me that in 1000000 years some joker will pick one of my incisors out of a rock near here.
A little assistance with your scientific learning GG.
Just as the climate is not static, neither are rocks. Tectonic forces over time can buckle and uplift deposited sediments. Dependant on how strong and long lasting the tectonic event is, sediments and their hosted fossils can be lifted kilometres above their original level of deposition. The rocks at the summit of Mt Everest are sediments and contain fossils of extinct animals from the ancient Tethys Sea.
So as the fossils on Mt Everest do not indicate that the Earth's sea level was 8 kilometres higher than present levels in the Ordovician times (~450 million years old), finding fossils 50 feet above a current river level is not necessarily an indicator of fossil sea levels. I have drilled limestones that contain shells, corals and even whale teeth (30-55 million years old - so are younger than the dinosaurs) under the salt lakes in WA. These fossils are situated 250-300m above current sea level. Tectonically WA has been a very quiet place over the last few hundred million years. In comparison the eastern part of Australia has been extremely active. So finding fossils 50 feet above the level of the Murray is not particularly surprising. You will find that there are fossils at much higher levels over there.
Because it's a religion, as per the article I posted earlier in this thread.Thanks derty,
It makes me wonder though that with so many variable changes, weather, tectonics etc, how the warmeners with their graphs and predictions can be so sure about the future.
gg
My reason tells me that in 1000000 years some joker will pick one of my incisors out of a rock near here.
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