Charting software for Stan Weinstein's method

[rama3124]

Hey guys, just reading Stan Weinstein's book on technical analysis and just looking to find software for mac to make the 'Mansfield' charts. These charts have a price line, 30day MA, relative strength, volume and yearly high/lows. Im currently looking at Beesoft ProTA, amibroker and metastock. Anyone know the best one to use for this purpose?

Cheers

 

[isatrader]

Hey guys, just reading Stan Weinstein's book on technical analysis and just looking to find software for mac to make the 'Mansfield' charts. These charts have a price line, 30day MA, relative strength, volume and yearly high/lows. Im currently looking at Beesoft ProTA, amibroker and metastock. Anyone know the best one to use for this purpose?

Cheers

Hi rama3124, I use Beesoft ProTA to create my Weinstein style charts. To create the Mansfield RS indicator I did a bit of custom coding. But I would be happy to give you that if you choose to use ProTA. I've attached an example of my Weinstein charts and I have a thread discussing Stan Weinstein's method on the T2W's forum. Here's the link: Stan Weinstein's Stage Analysis Discussion Thread

 

[tech/a]

Two posts both first time.

SPAM

 

[isatrader]

Two posts both first time.

SPAM

How is it spam. The guy asked a question and I saw it as I get google alerts for anything Stan Weinstein related sent to my email. So to reply I had join the forum. I'm not selling anything, I just mentioned I have a discussion thread on another forum on the subject he's interested in as it's been covered a few times on there.

 

[tech/a]

How is it spam. The guy asked a question and I saw it as I get google alerts for anything Stan Weinstein related sent to my email. So to reply I had join the forum. I'm not selling anything, I just mentioned I have a discussion thread on another forum on the subject he's interested in as it's been covered a few times on there.

My apologies

In my opinion

 

[isatrader]

My apologies

In my opinion

Fair enough. But you shouldn't judge people based on post counts. As you'll put people off contributing useful content to this site as you have me.

 

[tech/a]

Fair enough. But you shouldn't judge people based on post counts. As you'll put people off contributing useful content to this site as you have me.

Maybe your right and have no motive.
BeesoftPro
And Mansfield Indicator
Leading to your reply.

But hey you answered the poster.
All Weinstein indicators can be coded into Amibroker and N
Metastock.
I did a great deal ofwork on Weinstein years ago and found that by the time you saw a divergence in strength in a stock v an index the move creating the divergence had well and truly been and in many cases gone.

But each to their own journey

 

[isatrader]

Maybe your right and have no motive.
BeesoftPro
And Mansfield Indicator
Leading to your reply.

But hey you answered the poster.
All Weinstein indicators can be coded into Amibroker and N
Metastock.
I did a great deal of work on Weinstein years ago and found that by the time you saw a divergence in strength in a stock v an index the move creating the divergence had well and truly been and in many cases gone.

But each to their own journey

I've been doing an in-depth study of Weinstein's method for the last year and half and have obtained recent copies of his global trend alert which has helped me to create hundreds of examples (which I've posted on the discussion thread for everyone to use) and get a much clearer understanding of it through my forward testing. From what you say it sounds like you don't understand the method properly which I see a lot on my discussion thread. People tend to only look at the single chart and don't do the additional work necessary to determine the best candidates and then give up. His method is simple at first glance, yet it is complex - in that it requires a lot of due diligence and studies of the broad market, sector analysis and peep to peer comparisons as well as market breadth studies to aid with timing.

 

[craft]

I've been doing an in-depth study of Weinstein's method for the last year and half and have obtained recent copies of his global trend alert which has helped me to create hundreds of examples (which I've posted on the discussion thread for everyone to use) and get a much clearer understanding of it through my forward testing. From what you say it sounds like you don't understand the method properly which I see a lot on my discussion thread. People tend to only look at the single chart and don't do the additional work necessary to determine the best candidates and then give up. His method is simple at first glance, yet it is complex - in that it requires a lot of due diligence and studies of the broad market, sector analysis and peep to peer comparisons as well as market breadth studies to aid with timing.

Who's the 'peep' and who's the 'peer'

Is the complexity only there to get the method to show what you want to see?

Only simple survives the forward test of real life.

 

[tech/a]

I've been doing an in-depth study of Weinstein's method for the last year and half and have obtained recent copies of his global trend alert which has helped me to create hundreds of examples (which I've posted on the discussion thread for everyone to use) and get a much clearer understanding of it through my forward testing. From what you say it sounds like you don't understand the method properly which I see a lot on my discussion thread. People tend to only look at the single chart and don't do the additional work necessary to determine the best candidates and then give up. His method is simple at first glance, yet it is complex - in that it requires a lot of due diligence and studies of the broad market, sector analysis and peep to peer comparisons as well as market breadth studies to aid with timing.

What are you using to forward test with?
Any screen shots of simulated test results would be fantastic.
Ive never seen a profitable backtest using his method--- on a braod market or an individual sector---so keen to see anything you have.

I did all mine back in 2002 and the results/code and desire to continue with what I believe to be an out dated methodology are long gone.I used Metastock and Tradesim.
We are now using Amibroker and Tradesim.

There are far simpler and far more profitable ways to trade than using Weinstein.
Good for beginners though--many cut their teeth technically with his work.

From what you say it sounds like you don't understand the method properly which I see a lot on my discussion thread.

Good god is that an assumption---which similar to mine is opinion---perhaps unfounded?

 

[isatrader]

What are you using to forward test with?
Any screen shots of simulated test results would be fantastic.
Ive never seen a profitable backtest using his method--- on a braod market or an individual sector---so keen to see anything you have.

I did all mine back in 2002 and the results/code and desire to continue with what I believe to be an out dated methodology are long gone.I used Metastock and Tradesim.
We are now using Amibroker and Tradesim.

There are far simpler and far more profitable ways to trade than using Weinstein.
Good for beginners though--many cut their teeth technically with his work.

Good god is that an assumption---which similar to mine is opinion---perhaps unfounded?

That was meant tongue in cheek after your earlier spam assumption.

As for backtesting, I don't really think it's possible from my studies of the method, as there are too many variables to consider. You could automate part of it, but the broader analysis necessary and market timing require a discretionary element that I don't believe can be automated. My manual forward test began on the 27th October and has given me just over a 7% return with less than 1% draw down over the period, while the market was still swinging wildly. I've made plenty of mistakes, but I'm continuing to learn and the recent March 2012 Global Trend Alert really helped me to fine tune how I was interpreting the stages.

I think you should reconsider the work only being good for beginners as the method hasn't changed in the last 30 years or so, and institutional investors pay a lot of money for his company's GTA newsletter and consultation advice, which should tell there's something more there than you think there is. But as you said earlier, each to their own journey.

 

[tech/a]

That was meant tongue in cheek after your early spam assumption. :roll eyes:

As for back testing, I don't really think it's possible from my studies of the method, as there are too many variables to consider. You could automate part of it, but the broader analysis necessary and market timing require a discretionary element that I don't believe can be automated. My manual forward test began on the 27th October and has given me just over a 7% return with less than 1% draw down over the period, while the market was still swinging wildly. I've made plenty of mistakes, but I'm continuing to learn and the recent March 2012 Global Trend Alert really helped me to fine tune how I was interpreting the stages.

I think you should reconsider the work only being good for beginners as the method hasn't changed in the last 30 years or so, and institutional investors pay a lot of money for his company's GTA newsletter and consultation advice, which should tell there's something more there than you think there is. But as you said earlier, each to their own journey.

My point exactly.
It may well still "work"
But frankly Id prefer to take advantage of the advancements made in the last 30 yrs than to stick with those developed 30 yrs ago.
As a basic foundation yes---but 7% in 6 mths even with 1% Draw down is pretty pedestrian.

 

[isatrader]

My point exactly.
It may well still "work"
But frankly Id prefer to take advantage of the advancements made in the last 30 yrs than to stick with those developed 30 yrs ago.
As a basic foundation yes---but 7% in 6 mths even with 1% Draw down is pretty pedestrian.

Well the oldies are the goodies in my opinion, as Weinstein's method is based on the work of Wyckoff and Jesse Livermore imo. Which are all timeless as the price action of the market doesn't change, just the people trading it. And as the average return of the S&P 500 for the last 60 years is only roughly 8% per year, I'm quite happy to take 7% in 5 months whether you think it pedestrian or not.

 

[tech/a]

Well the oldies are the goodies in my opinion, as Weinstein's method is based on the work of Wyckoff and Jesse Livermore imo. Which are all timeless as the price action of the market doesn't change, just the people trading it. And as the average return of the S&P 500 for the last 60 years is only roughly 8% per year, I'm quite happy to take 7% in 5 months whether you think it pedestrian or not.

I think your drawing a very long bow comparing Weinstein with Wyckoff.

as the price action of the market doesn't change, just the people trading it.

Im more of the opinion that Price action is for ever changing.
People generally dont---creatures of habit.
Enjoy your time here.

 

[Ves]

Well the oldies are the goodies in my opinion, as Weinstein's method is based on the work of Wyckoff and Jesse Livermore imo. Which are all timeless as the price action of the market doesn't change, just the people trading it. And as the average return of the S&P 500 for the last 60 years is only roughly 8% per year, I'm quite happy to take 7% in 5 months whether you think it pedestrian or not.

Hasn't the S & P 500 gone up 25% in this five month period alone in comparison?

Two other things; you have to pay tax and transaction costs on the 7% gain. You also won't get any dividends (which I assume are not included in the "8% per year" average growth of the S & P 500 over the last 60 years).

I remember reading somewhere, that backtested, the Weinstein method has averaged less than the market for the last 20 years.

 

[isatrader]

Hasn't the S & P 500 gone up 25% in this five month period alone in comparison?

Weinstein's method is not about catching tops or bottoms. It's a breakout method that get's you into stocks once the trend has stabilized and breaks out to the upside. So the aim is to capture a good portion of the uptrend.

My forward test was from the 27th Oct 11 to 12th March 12. In that period the S&P 500 made 6.73%, the Dow Jones made 6.15% and the Nasdaq made 8.95%

 

[rama3124]

Thanks for the replies, they have all been very helpful.
Specifically:
Tech/a - You mention that there are plenty of more advanced methods for beginners to use, well im a beginner so is there anything u recommend i read? I have a special interest in technical analysis

isatrader - I have started reading ur discussion thread, extremely helpful! Thanks again. Also i'm going to get ProTa, so the coding would be much appreciated. Does the cost include all usage or is there a monthly fee?

 

[isatrader]

Thanks for the replies, they have all been very helpful.
isatrader - I have started reading ur discussion thread, extremely helpful! Thanks again. Also i'm going to get ProTa, so the coding would be much appreciated. Does the cost include all usage or is there a monthly fee?

ProTA is an end of day software program. So it's a one off fee for the program and then you need to get data, so you can either buy a subscription to someone or get it free like I do from Yahoo. For that I bought an add on for it called StockXloader which lets you download the free data from Yahoo finance. But ProTA can be hooked up to most paid for data providers I believe so explore your options.

You can find the explanation of how the Mansfield Relative Strength is created on Chartmill's site here: http://www.chartmill.com/documentation.php?t=Relative+Strength+%28explanation%29 and they have the Mansfield Indicator built into their free web based charts.

Or here is the code for ProTA (This is for the weekly chart only as you'll need to make another one for the daily chart using the 200 day MA instead):

1. Create a custom indicator called: Relative Strength Dorsey
2. Put this code in it:

C/XREF("^GSPC", I, C, N, "NormDate")*100

3. Create another custom indicator called: Relative Strength Dorsey 52W MA
4. Put this code in it:

MA(52, S, FN("Relative Strength Dorsey"))

5. Create a custom indicator called: Relative Strength Mansfield Weekly
6. Put this code in it:

((RelPerf("^GSPC", I, C, N, "NormDate") / FN("Relative Strength Dorsey 52W MA")) -1) *100

7. Then open a new chart and select "Indicator, then Custom Indicator, then Relative Strength Mansfield Weekly and it will appear at the bottom of your chart. You can then save it as a template once your happy with the style.

Hope that helps.