- Joined
- 1 April 2007
- Posts
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- 1
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah ah ah aha ha aha, I once had a guy do that to me in a debate also. Found out he got his analysis off E-trade by Huntleys!
Don't worry ROE, annalivia is obviously not bright enough to come up with his/her own analysis. Why else would he/she plagiarize CAM's October NTA report and post it here changing a couple of key words to make it look like his/her own? See attachment end of page 2 and start of page 3. I guess you get desperate when watching the value of your investments tumble.
Don't worry ROE, annalivia is obviously not bright enough to come up with his/her own analysis. Why else would he/she plagiarize CAM's October NTA report and post it here changing a couple of key words to make it look like his/her own? See attachment end of page 2 and start of page 3. I guess you get desperate when watching the value of your investments tumble.
OK. You caught me with my pants/dress down.
Some of my best work is plagarism. It did get a nice little debate going and I am glad to see people discussing things other than technical analysis on ASF.
IMHO(more H than normal) this is still a compelling buy. This is an outstanding company with one profit downgrade. Reminds me of Buffett buying AMEX when the salad oil scandal hit. The stock keeps going down and I keep buying it. Time will tell if I am an idiot or not. Anyway I promise not to cut and paste and come up with my own line of discussion from now on.
AL
"Be greedy when others are fearful" (Warren Buffett not Annalivia)
However it is amusing watching techies get dubfounded when their imaginary support lines get smashed.
Cant beat technical backed by fundamental research
Ah, here we go, I guess ROE at least beleives in technical to spot the trends.
However, do you apply a stop loss ROE at all on your investments?
I guess if we didnt bother applying technical analysis at all (spotting trends) and simply bought in at our trigger levels (price at which we beleive is a good deal and undervalued), then we might as well all just sell naked put options.
Interesting food for thought, thats for sure!
LMAO!!!!!!!!!
However, I still think there might be something in using these supports in order to apply stop losses and buy in even cheaper...............
Havent had enough experience looking out for these supports yet and using them as a stop loss guide.
Dhukka or ROE have any opinion on this?
Have any of you guys looked into naked put options and any thoughts? This of all options strategies I have read (not many), seems the most common sense for the value investor such as ourselves. Get to take a premium the majority of times and if the stock does hit a good price, get to own the stock instead. Income generation combined with value investing all at once and a good idea if its taking a while for a stock price you find applicable to come up (down in real terms).
I've often wondered why value investors don't do this. Makes perfect sense to me.
The problem is you'll need to pony up serious money on a lot of blue chips if you do it. Otherwise, would look great to me from a value investor's perspective. Earn the premium if a stock you like doesn't get your preferred price. And the premium paid to you effectively makes the stock cheaper if you are excercised. Can't be guaranteed to be excercised when you want though...
Options writing strategies to me make a hell of a lot of sense especially for value investors/ buy and holders.
What do you mean by pony up serious money on a lot of blue chips? As in, keep that aside encase the option is exercised and you have to buy the stock?
The big factors here though, as you say, are that it is not excercised when you want and also that if the stock is in a serious downtrend (announces bad profit and the stock plummets), you end up with a stock of which the value has changed and your new rating maybe below your strike price. Your not as free to make improvised decisions, but thats your write-off for the premium.
What are options writing strategies? As in selling options?
I mean, on a single options contract for a $30 stock, you would need to have 30k to not get into a margin call.
A far better strategy, I think, for value investors would be to pay for the stock in cash, and write covered calls at the value/ price you think is fair value, and that you would agree to sell at. At least to start off with. It's what I'm intending to do for stocks that aren't paying dividends, but that I don't necessarily want to sell.
Options writing strategies are when you initiate the option trade itself. So you accept the risk of being excercised. You sell to open a call, or you sell to open a put. I think that's how it works. I am very very much a noob on this topic, so you wont be that far behind where I am here!
I dont get the first part, a margin call, dont even get what that means? For a $30 stock, the most you would need is 100X so 3k isnt that right? I mean if you sell the naked put option and it falls to zero, that is as far as your downside can go, 3k? After you are exercised and you end up with 100 shares in a stock worth nothing.
HA HA, funny you should mention covered calls, this is the part I just read and is my favourite of all the strategies. Setting the strike price at fair value, exactly what I thought when reading it and is something I will be doing a LOT more of once I set up an options trading account.
Isnt what you just said, about options writing strategies, selling to open a call or selling to open a put, just simply selling call or put options?
Yeh, this is definately all new lingo and does my head in sometimes thinking about it! As was in the thread by WayneL, I need this to become unconciously competent so I just do it by instinct. Until then, I will have to keep processing it everytime I think of the different strategies.
Yep. I took a first bite at learning all this last March. Decided to use futures eventually instead, because options did my head in at first. So keep at it, it will eventually come. It's like when I learn very complex philosophy. If I don't get it straight up, I will go away for a few days or whatever, think it through, and when it's not at that overwhelming level, re-think it. So it is with this. I'm pretty sure options writing would be exactly what you would be looking for, so spending the time on it will be well worth it.
I think in Australia, options contracts are in 1000 lots. So 1000x30 = 30k.
A margin call is when you don't have enough collateral to secure the debt. So, you don't have enough cash, or your asset level, i.e. stocks has fallen too low to cover the intended expenditure.
The example you posted, you would lose 30k (if my contract sizes are correct), this is why there is always a larger premium paid for puts than for calls. There is always a stronger motive to excercise puts than there is calls.
I think you are getting confused with selling to open (writing) an options contract, with simply selling an options contract. When you sell to open a contract, you haven't previously bought a contract. When you sell a contract, you already have bought a contract, which you are then selling, one in which you did not write. I think that is where you may be getting confused. If I have it correct myself!
Great minds with the covered calls... lol! It is the most popular basic strategy, or hedging strategy, I think. It's quite good for my learning, writing all this out actually. Hopefully you can get a toe hold on all this, because when you begin to learn complex things, it's mighty satisfying.
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