Buying on Price versus Paying for Quality

Being in retail for more years than I would admit to, it never ceases to amaze me that the cost of something is far more important to the majority of customers than the quality of the item.

4 Corners on ABC tonight continued the Coles/Woolies bashing and the market manipulation that comes with having a stranglehold in retail market share.

Interesting to note that the sausage maker supplying Woolies had to pad the products out so much with "filler" that he admitted he wouldn't eat it himself ...

Of course, we all look for a bargain and I too go to these giants for brand name products, but to see the customers in front of me buying limp carrots, wilted greens, soggy tomatoes etc. just to save a couple of cents in the kg is beyond me. There is a dedicated dehli and fruit market just on the next level - go figure.

The butcher just next shop along, who will freshly hand cut anything you want, struggles with people preferring to buy shrink wrapped, week ago factory packaged meat from who knows where...

We used to build computers for the hospitals, Government Departments and selected customers. Every component was studied and selected for being the best, each PC took 4 days to build and test and we made around $200 per unit - we had close to zero failure rate over a 3 year period of the machine. We don't build PC's any more because people won't pay for the extra care and quality. We still make around $200 each, but the failure rates on the so called main stream brand names are embarrassing - but hey, the manufacturer now has to wear the warranty issues.

In my spare time I make wooden jewelery boxes - I can't sell them, the raw timber alone is more than twice the cost of the stained pine or veneered finshed competition - I have a beautiful collection though

Whenever I want to buy something for myself it normally means a special order because the average buyer wants the "cheaper" version, often I'll have to import it because there is no demand in Australia for the better quality products.

I am certainly not well off in any terms, but would prefer to go without than buying a piece of crap.

Interestingly I have had this discussion with so called "bargain hunters" in the past and there appears to be a real seperation in the thoughts of people buying on price versus the ones that understand and seek out quality.

I wonder if others are seeing the erosion of quality product availability - it even happens with services. My sister had a plumber come around to fix a sewer blockage, they ended up kicking the toilet bowl from it's cement footing thus breaking the bowl - a casualty of the repair which she had to pay for - or the previous plumber that appeared only to dig a huge hole under her pavers, only to decide it was too hard and didn't come back.

Where to begin Roland.

It's disgusting. I have enough food allergies to fill a list as long as both your arms and when I go shopping I pay the price that food really costs. Not the price that keeps CPI in check, the actual cost of buying pure, high quality, low or no-additive foods. That's because I simply can't eat the usual cr@p, it makes me sick. Before I left Aust 2 years ago I could walk out of my local Coles with two plastic bags of groceries and a receipt for $100.

Immigrants didn't nick name Aussies "can eaters" for nothing. The average Australian hasn't a clue about quality. Once upon a time that was probably due to genuine reasons of affordability, real or perceived. Now it's due in large to the fact that it is very difficult to find quality food within a supermarket without knowing how to read labels and what to look for.

In Sweden I can eat nearly everything and almost never get sick. I'll move to the Netherlands soon and have already detected signs of the same food culture as Australia...and I'm not looking forward to that side of things. Fortunately I'll be less than an hour from Belgium which I'm led to believe is another land of 'quality' living.

I think meat is probably the best example, we have just started going to the butcher for our meat because the local supermarkets (Coles/Woolworths, but especially woolies) have terrible quality. I can't really say the same for veggies, they seem to have all the fresh veggies you could poke a stick at and generally good quality too.

One thing that has annoyed me over the years is the brand removal, for example once you start to get something you like they take it off the shelves. Every fortnight I used to buy native pepper Ashgrove cheese and boom it was gone after 2 years of going to the same supermarket, you would think with their loyalty card technology that they could see regular consumption and keep even a small amount in stock.

Anyway, I do mix up my retailers in the hunt for the best quality, but sometimes it's at the big boys shops where I find it.

Shop around and you can have both quality and bargain prices. The only problem is that you wont get all your shopping done at one place.

Take meat for example. It is not hard to find a butcher that buys and sells quality. Their price will be the same as the other meat suppliers in most cases however they will probably only sell meat so you will have to go somewhere else for everything else.

Then there are the vegies. At local markets there will be a lot of stalls that sell their seconds and the best goes somewhere else. However there will be some stalls selling great fresh produce. Even at the wholesale markets it is possible to buy but in case lots. Plenty of people shop there as a group and share the bounty. Of course it is possible to grow most of your own and enjoy both the satisfaction of gardening and the great taste of food. There are some backyarders that have regular customers for fruit, vegies, eggs, fish (not strictly legal but they are there),flowers etc.

Even computer repairs: after having bad results from the "tradesmen" in the business I have found a local part timer that is a real help.

In other words, shop around. Just don't try and do all your shopping in one store. Get both quality and price.

I don't care about quality.. I have more exciting things to spend on than food and weekly items that go through your system and go down the toilet. I also only have time to visit one shop each week. Sorry, I'm one of those that leads to the current problems in food retailing.

The 4 Corners report was just a bunch of small businesses complaining they can't compete with the scale and efficiency of Coles and Woolworths. They were basically trying to argue that lower prices for consumers was bad, when it is just bad for them.

freddy2 said:

The 4 Corners report was just a bunch of small businesses complaining they can't compete with the scale and efficiency of Coles and Woolworths. They were basically trying to argue that lower prices for consumers was bad, when it is just bad for them.

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Yes, maybe so, but aren't you missing the point? What happens when the small business competition disappears from that market space?

roland said:

What happens when the small business competition disappears from that market space?

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It's called a free market economy.

If a business goes bust, then it wasn't a good business. (And that's why the bad business will blame someone else instead of correctly taking the blame themselves). Sounds like most investors/traders - if you win, you take the credit. If you lose, it's someone else's fault.

A good business will come along eventually and seize on a market opportunity.

If the masses want to buy crap, then sell it to them or sell quality correctly. Don't try to sell quality to the masses that don't want it - you'll go broke.

Wouldn't you differentiate about buying "quality" on the basis of what the item is? e.g. buying cheap clothing is a false economy. Good, classically styled clothes are worth paying for. Especially shoes. I can't believe the people who get around in rubber thongs.

But for basic groceries, e.g. ordinary table salt, flour, sugar, I don't see the point in paying for more than the generic brand.

And where I live, the quality of the fresh fruit and vegetables at Woolworths is far superior to any smaller outlet, most of which seem to be trying to compete purely on price and therefore offer second rate, tired rubbish.

Another point: we have a growing number of people living below the poverty line. They simply can't afford to buy anything other than the cheapest available.

On services, have had one nightmare after another. Small, large and government departments.

One moving company took 50% deposit but never turned up, kept changing dates, never called to cancel then pronounced they could not take it all on one truck so would have to leave some behind. Asked for a refund and it took 3 months and loads spent in phone calls. Then the refund was paid bits and pieces, not one lump sum.

Had a builder who presented us with a bill that included 12 hours work on a day he was never actually on the site. Aked what he actually did on mystery date was told he could not be expected to remember details lol.

Had property manager remove above ground pool at rental prop and store as the fencng did not comply with council regulations and could not get a fencer at the time. One year later found the pool had been dismantled but not stored and totally ruined. They deny it was not stored.

Will not get started on government lol

Have had a real bad run dealing with banks, business etc but after sressing and fighting have given up..hardky worth the effort.

It's not just food and clothing,

I'am in the construction material business and we have noticed that sales of our high end ranges in Australia have dropped and the lower end ranges have increased, when we ask the builders / developers we deal with, we are told the same thing people will not pay for the better products, even thought they may have to replace them in a years time compared to the higher quality that will last 4 x as long.

But in Europe it is the other way round we sell far more of our high end ranges then the lower ranges. where as in the US it is about 50 - 50.

I think the consumer is now blinded by price forgetting the fact the lower price normally means lower quality (with some items). You get a good bargin on the day it is bought, then a few months down the line find that it was not a bargin after all.

MichaelD said:

It's called a free market economy.

If the masses want to buy crap, then sell it to them or sell quality correctly. Don't try to sell quality to the masses that don't want it - you'll go broke.

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I agree with your point in theory, however no one can argue that Australia (or any counrty) operates a totally free market economy.

There are powerful lobbies at work, which makes it difficult for new small companies as they do not have the funds to pay for lobbying. (Theoretically there should be no lobbying within seperate industries of a free market economy).

Just one example is the lack of zoning around certain Woolworths sites, making it impossible for other business to open up near them.

Julia said:

But for basic groceries, e.g. ordinary table salt, flour, sugar, I don't see the point in paying for more than the generic brand.

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I dont do the cooking in our house, but i do the majority of the eating, and trust me, you can notice the difference between high and low quality goods, even the basic. Especially salt, its amazing the nuances different salt types have...

back to the same old problem again. I want a Bosch sander - think I can find the model I want??? Bunnings, Mitre 10, Home Hardware, Gasweld, 3 x independant hardware stores - nope!

call Bosch, they say they have plenty but cannot advise who would have one. All stores called said they only sell and stock the cheaper ones. - no demand for the better products.

roland said:

back to the same old problem again. I want a Bosch sander - think I can find the model I want??? Bunnings, Mitre 10, Home Hardware, Gasweld, 3 x independant hardware stores - nope!

call Bosch, they say they have plenty but cannot advise who would have one. All stores called said they only sell and stock the cheaper ones. - no demand for the better products.

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Try Blackwoods. Owned by Westfarmers the same as bunnings. They cater for the serious tradesmen, bunnings cater for the masses.

prawn_86 said:

I dont do the cooking in our house, but i do the majority of the eating, and trust me, you can notice the difference between high and low quality goods, even the basic. Especially salt, its amazing the nuances different salt types have...

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Well, Prawn, you must be a person of immense epicurean sophistication and refinement.
So if a cake is baked with Home Brand flour rather than a brand name, you can taste the difference?
And the same for the sugar used in the cake?

Certainly good river or rock salt has a different taste on food, but I'd doubt you would be able to pick which sort of salt was used in, say, a pickle or chutney.

prawn_86 said:

I dont do the cooking in our house, but i do the majority of the eating, and trust me, you can notice the difference between high and low quality goods, even the basic. Especially salt, its amazing the nuances different salt types have...

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And vinegars and olive oils...omg, the taste of a quality vinegarette topped with salt flakes (don't forget the importance of the shape of the salt!).

Julia said:

Well, Prawn, you must be a person of immense epicurean sophistication and refinement.

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LOL, i'll take any compliment i can get these days...

Julia said:

So if a cake is baked with Home Brand flour rather than a brand name, you can taste the difference?
And the same for the sugar used in the cake?

Certainly good river or rock salt has a different taste on food, but I'd doubt you would be able to pick which sort of salt was used in, say, a pickle or chutney.

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I'll agree that there are some things which can have basic ingredients used, like sugar in a cake. But i can notice the difference between good and bad bread mixes (which are essentially flour).

But yes, we tend to have 2 of most things, one (basic brand) for when the taste is not the 'focal point' and another for when it is (such as the rock salt etc)

prawn_86 said:

I'll agree that there are some things which can have basic ingredients used, like sugar in a cake. But i can notice the difference between good and bad bread mixes (which are essentially flour).

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Well, hmmm, not necessarily. When I left Oz they were putting bakers flour into everything. That meant it was a premix flour based on wheat, but often with other kinds of a goodies like soya flour and MSG. Yes, that's correct, MSG. For those who are not aware MSG is a flavour enhancer. In Swedish they prefer the term flavour amplifier which I think is more appropriate. In essence this substance tricks your tastebuds into thinking they're having a better party than they actually are. It's flavour cheating IMO. Bit of trivia for y'all.

theasxgorilla said:

In essence this substance tricks your tastebuds into thinking they're having a better party than they actually are. It's flavour cheating IMO. Bit of trivia for y'all.

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Sorta like salt really.

Choice's Packaged ham reviewed


Making a profit on water
All the products in our test were wet-cured and contained at least some extra water (see the table for details).

Most meat - The hams with most meat (more than 90%) and least added water (6% or less) were:

PRIMO Leg Ham Double Smoked
DANDY Shaved Premium Leg Ham
PRIMO Leg Ham Honey Cured
PRIMO Premium Leg Ham Shaved
COURTWAY Continental Double Smoked Leg Ham (Aldi)
COURTWAY Continental Leg Ham (Aldi)

Least meat - WOOLWORTHS Deli Leg Ham (a pre-packaged ‘grab and go’ product from the deli counter) was the standout that contained the least meat (53%) and the most added water (38%).