Buying gold

disarray · 5 January 2009

cuttlefish said:
I'm assuming gold bars bought from the Australian Bullion Company would be the same purity and with a similar relatively small premium over spot. (anyone bought any bars from ABC recently?).

yes, they are stamped 9999 and price is about $10 - $20 over spot / oz to buy, and they buyback about $25 under spot. better than my old brokers commission.

and that was a good story slim, although i won't be wearing my gold bars around, they are already gainfully employed as paperweights, meditation balls and construction pieces in the little golden buildings i make on my desk. they are also a nice match for the the guns and tinned food i keep as a hedge against the zombie apocalypse

kransky · 6 January 2009

disarray said:
yes, they are stamped 9999 and price is about $10 - $20 over spot / oz to buy, and they buyback about $25 under spot. better than my old brokers commission.

and that was a good story slim, although i won't be wearing my gold bars around, they are already gainfully employed as paperweights, meditation balls and construction pieces in the little golden buildings i make on my desk. they are also a nice match for the the guns and tinned food i keep as a hedge against the zombie apocalypse

28 weeks later...

you can buy direct from abc and actually get delivery or is it a looong wait for delivery?

got some gold but not started stocking up tinned food yet... that may be needed when energy prices rocket when oil starts to run out

slim pickins · 6 January 2009

thank you all for your kind remarks. often truth can sound stranger then fiction. just wait until i post about a failed "diamond investment" scheme.

guns gold and tinned food are an excellent investment.

i see one of you right now walking around an apocalyptic lanscape, wind blowing, a diseased hungry population crawling looking for food.

and there's YOU..... roaming the wastelnd, stepping over the hungry masses, with your well fed, tinned-food induced belly. your gun tucked under you belt buckle, and covered in gold.... gold that you youself have turned into various pieces of jewelry while hunkered down in the bomb shelter for the first 4 months of the apocalypse.

there you are, a bright yellow shining tribute to gold investment.

has anyone here actually made a good 10% return from gold over the period of 7 years or so. i mean if they have... plese tell me about it.

the only time i was going to buy gold as i said was in 1999, and if i had done that i would have doubled my money some years later. btu then i saw that i woudl have doubled my moeny if i bought property (or many other investments) and i would have recieved some rental income as well. so i diditn feel like i really missed out by not actually owning physical gold.

please share your gold investment stories.

disarray · 6 January 2009

you can buy direct from the ABC shopfront in sydney and walk out with the gold, but there is a 3 month wait for silver.

i made some money a while ago on gold bars, i bought a few ounces around $800 and sold them at around $950 when the charts started tanking. i was just testing the waters with physical at the time, but now i prefer to hold some physical for the long term and trade ASX gold shares for the shorter term.

imo investments like gold / diamonds etc. aren't just a financial position, they are also a hedge against social instability. our society is fat, stupid, complacent and welfare dependent at the moment and as an avid student of history i am keenly aware of just how quickly it can all come crashing down. even a small position in physical gold is a lifetime insurance policy against war, epidemics, civil unrest, corrupt government or whatever. but then i'm pretty pessimistic and maintain a bearish stance on humanity, so consult your own voices in your head before proceeding

kransky · 6 January 2009

disarray said:
hold some physical for the long term and trade ASX gold shares for the shorter term.

imo investments like gold / diamonds etc. aren't just a financial position, they are also a hedge against social instability. our society is fat, stupid, complacent and welfare dependent at the moment and as an avid student of history i am keenly aware of just how quickly it can all come crashing down. even a small position in physical gold is a lifetime insurance policy against war, epidemics, civil unrest, corrupt government or whatever. but then i'm pretty pessimistic and maintain a bearish stance on humanity, so consult your own voices in your head before proceeding

I agree completely and share your concerns about society and holding some physical gold simply as an insurance..

slim pickins · 6 January 2009

disarray,

i see you are a big picture man. i like that. plagues civil wars and insurrections. they are bound to happen from time to time. welfare dependency is a plague with its onw particularly nasty dimention and its spreading wiht the current governemnt.

gold is good in situatons like that. very good if you plan to take it with you to start a new life in america or somehting. and whilst it holds its value very well. may i also suggest diamonds. the favourite of depots, terrorists, dictators and war criminals.

with diamonds you will lose about a 30% of their value when you come to sell them, but if fleeing from war or the plague it is easier to smuggle them out. then 50kg bags of gold.

diamonds are tiny and they dont come up in those metal detector machines at the aiport. you can swallow milions of dollars worth. so the loss you result with is a lot better considering you will boost your chances of getting out alive.

its very hard to explain 80kg of gold in your louis vouitton luggage at the final communist insurgency checkpoint without sounding like a bougsie (cant spell it) capitalist pig. GO DIAMONDS!

kransky · 6 January 2009

and where/how to buy a diamond without being ripped off?

disarray · 6 January 2009

my oldies recently bought some diamonds from the kimberley in their grey nomad trek around australia. the got some champagne diamond from a dealer with certificates of authenticity etc. heading straight to the source is always a good way to start

Ageo · 6 January 2009

slim pickins said:
well no, i have never actually bougth gold in my life.

This pretty much sums it up Until you are in the physical market and have made money from it please dont speculate as this is a "buying gold thread" not "lets hear from some inexperienced gold buyers".

Remember buying paper always has the added risk (what if it crashes?) some might disagree and say comex and other gold platforms for paper can never crash but id rather be on the safe side.

cuttlefish said:
Ageo - 99.99% seems to be the standard purity for mint produced bars - are you saying bars stamped 99.99% by the mint aren't actually 99.99 pure?

(I've got Perth Mint bars that I bought from AGR Matthey earlier this year - they are stamped 9999. The price at that time was a relatively small percentage above spot - I'm pretty sure 1oz bars were only about $20 or $30 over spot which was near the AUD $900 mark at the time I purchased from memory).

I'm assuming gold bars bought from the Australian Bullion Company would be the same purity and with a similar relatively small premium over spot. (anyone bought any bars from ABC recently?).

CF what sounds better 9999 or 9996? 9999 means there is only gold and 0 impurities of any other metal left in the bar/ingot when refined. Speak to refining experts and see how hard it is to remove that 0001 of an impurity (basically impossible). But how will you know? a certificate and a nice shiny gold bar gets everyone excited so it doesnt mean anything. For example Slim mentioned only buy gold if its 9999 (even thow he hasnt bought gold in his life). Little does he realise you really cant it that pure.

Anywayz enough blabbing on, i have a customer who just orderded 10kgs of gold

cuttlefish · 6 January 2009

Ageo said:
CF what sounds better 9999 or 9996? 9999 means there is only gold and 0 impurities of any other metal left in the bar/ingot when refined. Speak to refining experts and see how hard it is to remove that 0001 of an impurity (basically impossible). But how will you know? a certificate and a nice shiny gold bar gets everyone excited so it doesnt mean anything. For example Slim mentioned only buy gold if its 9999 (even thow he hasnt bought gold in his life). Little does he realise you really cant it that pure.

Cheers Ageo

Anywayz enough blabbing on, i have a customer who just orderded 10kgs of gold

Do you distribute for a refiner Ageo or source your gold from somewhere else?

slim pickins · 7 January 2009

Ageo said:
This pretty much sums it up Until you are in the physical market and have made money from it please dont speculate as this is a "buying gold thread" not "lets hear from some inexperienced gold buyers".

CF what sounds better 9999 or 9996? 9999 means there is only gold and 0 impurities of any other metal left in the bar/ingot when refined. Speak to refining experts and see how hard it is to remove that 0001 of an impurity (basically impossible). But how will you know? a certificate and a nice shiny gold bar gets everyone excited so it doesnt mean anything. For example Slim mentioned only buy gold if its 9999 (even thow he hasnt bought gold in his life). Little does he realise you really cant it that pure.

Anywayz enough blabbing on, i have a customer who just orderded 10kgs of gold

im just telling you why i did not invest in gold so far. no biggie. i might buy gold one day.

i dotn think i meant to start a discussion about gold purity to that degree. it was a typo. i meant to say 99.9% not 99.99.....

when i say pure i mean pure 99.9 whatever.... as compared to 97% or 98% a reputable mint will not risk its reputation by stealing 1% of gold. so basically buy from a reputable source.

and of course you want us all to buy phisical gold ageo..... you sell the stuff!!!

now tell me.... do you buy the stuff? if i came to you today with kilo gold bar how much would you buy it off me for? what if i came to you with 10, one ounce gold disks purchased in switzerland stamped 99.99% how much could i get form you for each ounce disk.

slim pickins · 7 January 2009

kransky said:
and where/how to buy a diamond without being ripped off?

i dont knwo if i am allowed to talk abotu diamonds in this thread but ill just say buying diamonds at a good price is very very tricky.

everyone other then a diamond trader will tell you that.

diamonds are used as a form of wealth storage and wealth transfer by fleeing ex generals and dictators. they are a luxury item and a pretty rock but they are not an investment.

in fact, in a practical sense apart from being pretty, cut diamonds are totatly worthless. (storng statement i know but read about them before you attack me) they havent been a commodity for as long as gold and they are nto freely floated on any public exchange like gold is.

no matetr how much you buy a diamond for, whether it a shop, or a trader, or a back alley, you willl not be able to sell it without losing about 30% - 40% of the amount you paid for it.

has anyone here ever tried to sell a diamond to anyone that they bought in a western country? hwo much did you get for it?

you want a cheap diamond, go to africa or a warzone to get the best deal. and dotn get killed for your bag of cash.

my opinion... the chepest diamonds in the world right now are the gaza strip. if you have anastetic or an anti tank missile, you will get more diamonds for your buck then anywhere else on the planet.

cuttlefish · 7 January 2009

Doesn't De Beers pretty much control the price of diamonds? (and as I understand it there really are quite a lot of diamonds to be found in the world).

Another differentiator between diamonds and gold is that diamonds are basically a carbon molecule and can be manufactured. Nobody is manufacturing gem sized ones but at the right price I'm sure they'd figure out a way to economically manufacture larger ones.

slim pickins · 7 January 2009

cuttlefish,

yeah excatly what i have read.

and yes, diamond is a molecular compound and gold is an element (ie has its own atom). id say they will manufacture a molecule much sooenr then they will be abel to manufacture an elemnet if ever.

Page · 7 January 2009

Buying gold at this position is good decision. can go for it and purchase gold for future. Purchasing gold at this position would be like taking an insurance plan for your family.

Ageo · 8 January 2009

cuttlefish said:
Do you distribute for a refiner Ageo or source your gold from somewhere else?

As mentioned earlier i buy scrap (2nd hand) and have it refined with a refiner that doesnt deal with the public. I also source it from other refiners if i cant get the amount im after.

slim pickins said:
and of course you want us all to buy phisical gold ageo..... you sell the stuff!!!

now tell me.... do you buy the stuff? if i came to you today with kilo gold bar how much would you buy it off me for? what if i came to you with 10, one ounce gold disks purchased in switzerland stamped 99.99% how much could i get form you for each ounce disk.

hehe it doesnt bother me wether you buy gold or not (especially from me!) im just giving you a perspective from a person thats in the industry.

As for buying pure gold im not that competitive so selling it to me would be a waste of time. I mainly deal in buying 2ndhand gold (jewellery, scrap etc..).

A couple of questions thow when selling your gold

* Do you want payment on the spot? or are you happy with payment in a week or 2? (The reason i ask is most refiners have to assay the stock before buying it and you will have to factor in the fall of the gold price, refining fee's, retension fee etc... assaying will take at least a week so gold could move against you if you happy with the days spot).

* Are you lazy and you want someone to come to you? or your happy to travel?

* Finally how much would you expect for your 1oz disks? remember its only worth what your prepared to sell it for .

Finally as for diamonds they are luxury yes but very illiquid hence you cant melt it or form it to any shape/size you want over and over.

Gold is a true currency and has been and will be used for many yrs to come.

chatty · 8 January 2009

I have 5 oz gold bar. whice is the place that I can sell it at best price?

I am also interested in buying more gold and silver. i am wondering which way is better? coins or bar?

Also, if it happens that gold can go up to $5000/oz. If i decide t sell my gold back to perthmint, do i have to pay capital gain tax?

slim pickins · 9 January 2009

chatty said:
I have 5 oz gold bar. whice is the place that I can sell it at best price?

I am also interested in buying more gold and silver. i am wondering which way is better? coins or bar?

Also, if it happens that gold can go up to $5000/oz. If i decide t sell my gold back to perthmint, do i have to pay capital gain tax?

your tax will be your profit from the transaction. yes you have to pay capital gains tax on that profit so the government can give money to those thta dont like working and its union mates.

slim pickins · 9 January 2009

Ageo said:
As for buying pure gold im not that competitive so selling it to me would be a waste of time.

* Do you want payment on the spot? or are you happy with payment in a week or 2? (The reason i ask is most refiners have to assay the stock before buying it and you will have to factor in the fall of the gold price, refining fee's, retension fee etc... assaying will take at least a week so gold could move against you if you happy with the days spot).

* Finally how much would you expect for your 1oz disks? remember its only worth what your prepared to sell it for .

Gold is a true currency and has been and will be used for many yrs to come.

hehehe yes i knwo you would not buy it. you cant buy gold at spot price and stay in business. so thats alarm bells to anyone buying gold at spot price. you can not, i repeat you cannot buy gold at spot price and stay in business!

yes refiners will buy your gold eventually, but not at spot price. they will give you less then spot and then take away fees and charges and this and that. so th game is stacked against you.

thats why i say unless you are ready to flee the country with your wealth in a suitcase, buy gold contracts and pray to god you dont have to take physical delivery of the stuff.

but in a way ageo is right gold is the only true currency. the fractional banking system is a charade that only relies on our faith. the moment that faith is gone so are the zeros in our accounts.

but despite everything gold stays. and whoever has it retains wealth and power.

btu it is tough to make money with gold in a functioning system like ours.

Ageo · 9 January 2009

chatty said:
I have 5 oz gold bar. whice is the place that I can sell it at best price?

I am also interested in buying more gold and silver. i am wondering which way is better? coins or bar?

Also, if it happens that gold can go up to $5000/oz. If i decide t sell my gold back to perthmint, do i have to pay capital gain tax?

Read previous threads there is loads of information on there that will help you.

slim pickins said:
btu it is tough to make money with gold in a functioning system like ours.

Depends on how you trade gold thow, there are many ways to make money from gold (bullion, coins, jewellery, 2ndhand jewellery, scrap etc..)

I try and find whats booming and the most profitable then move into that area. Each category has its ups and downs but i can tell you i have bought heaps of 24ct gold jewellery for well less the spot price just because people need money on the spot and cant wait for it to be assayed. This is what the financial guru's call buying "distressed assets".

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