Bushfires in Perth

IFocus · 10 February 2011

There has been a lot of support for the officer as he is well known in the community

Cop under investigation over fire

The man being investigated over the cause of the devastating blaze is a police officer who was allegedly using an angle grinder on a trailer at the front of his Brookton Highway home.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/wa/8794434/cop-under-investigation-over-fire/

Whiskers · 11 February 2011

IFocus said:
There has been a lot of support for the officer as he is well known in the community

Cop under investigation over fire

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/wa/8794434/cop-under-investigation-over-fire/

Gees, I can relate to this guy. I've been doing a bit of welding and grinding fitting a new box to a trailer on the grass just outside my shed and had the same issue with small fires from hot metal in the grass. But I'm always conscious of fires happening from welding and grinding and have plenty of water close handy.

Whereas for anyone else they might consider it an accident and let it lie, but I wonder if they might consider because he is a cop he ought to have known the risk and taken better precautions and make an example of him... maybe, because if they don't it might be seen as preferential treatment.

The charge is a pretty wide ranging thing.

may be charged by summons with carrying out an act in the open air that causes or is likely to cause a fire. The maximum penalty is a $25,000 fine or 12 months jail.

Was there a total fire ban (or any fire restrictions) declared before the fire started? That will have a significant bearing on things.

IFocus · 11 February 2011

Was there a total fire ban (or any fire restrictions) declared before the fire started? That will have a significant bearing on things.

Total fire ban on the day

Tink · 11 February 2011

Very sad to read about these fires in WA, but with the heat they have been having, you could see it coming, no rain, just like what we had in Vic.

I have to agree Whiskers, I think fires are worse, at least you can try and manouever your way out with a flood, not that I have been in any, but with the fires, you cant see anything, the air is thick and its awful. I have only seen fires from a distance and that was enough.

The whole city ended up with an orange sun with the smoke.

Smurf1976 · 12 February 2011

Whilst there is an obvious risk, is grinding technically illegal on a day of total fire ban in WA?

Whiskers · 12 February 2011

Smurf1976 said:
Whilst there is an obvious risk, is grinding technically illegal on a day of total fire ban in WA?

Yeah, that's a good question.

I'm not sure which way the legalities in WA stack up, but I suspect the refered to "offence"...

carrying out an act in the open air that causes or is likely to cause a fire.

may be perpetual, but once the Total Fire Ban is implemented, it has a magnified effect.

Alternatively, it may be part of the regulations of a Total Fire Ban. In Qld, or at least in my experience, there is an inherent sense of extra care when a Total Fire Ban is called. I suppose it comes from the need to take extra precautions to protect and moniter the property and surrounding infrastructure and crops. We always seemed to have a neighbour or two and their equipment available at short call to get things under control pretty quickly. Unfortunately, I think too many people in urban areas tend to think in case of emergency , call 000... and have little or no contingency plans of their own... not even a small fire extinguisher handy in the laundry or shed.

Either way it does not bode well for the offending police officer.

At least one saving grace is that there was no deliberate intent to cause a fire and so long as he called the fire brigade promptly, there should not be any issue with concealment or negligence, except maybe unless it is considered that grinding on the dry lawn in a Total Fire Ban is considered negligent (by a police officer).

Bludy unfortunate event on two counts. One that he happened to make a fire that got out of control and secondly, that the lack of controls to protect houses resulted in such losses.

bellenuit · 12 February 2011

Smurf1976 said:
Whilst there is an obvious risk, is grinding technically illegal on a day of total fire ban in WA?

Good question. I avoided doing some metal cutting with my angle grinder today as (I assume) there is a total fire ban. I am inner city (Wembley) but didn't want to risk prosecution even though it is very safe where I live. I am overlooked by flats and thought that if someone was peeved with the noise they might get back at me by reporting that I was using an angle grinder. I assume it is illegal as the off duty police officer was prosecuted for starting last weeks fires when he used an angle grinder, even though the ignition was unintentional.

IFocus · 12 February 2011

Smurf1976 said:
Whilst there is an obvious risk, is grinding technically illegal on a day of total fire ban in WA?

No hot work which covers grinding you can get exemptions

This is today TFB wind is howling outside at the moment at least the temperature is only 30

Total Fire Ban for Perth, Perth hills and surrounding areas and Mandurah for today
Saturday 12 February 2011 – 12:00 AM

A Total Fire Ban has been declared for today, 12 February for Perth, Perth hills and surrounding areas and Mandurah.

This includes:

* Perth Metropolitan area, Perth hills and neighbouring shires of:
o Chittering
o Gingin
o Murray
o Serpentine-Jarrahdale
o Waroona
o Toodyay

· City of Armadale

· City of Canning

· City of Cockburn

· City of Bayswater

· City of Belmont

· City of Fremantle

· City of Gosnells

· City of Joondalup

· City of Nedlands

· City of Perth

· City of Mandurah

· City of Melville

· City of South Perth

· City of Stirling

· City of Subiaco

· City of Swan

· City of Wanneroo

· City of Rockingham

· Shire of Chittering

· Shire of Gingin

· Shire of Kalamunda

· Shire of Mundaring

· Shire of Murray

· Shire of Peppermint Grove

· Shire of Serpentine-Jarrahdale

· Shire of Toodyay

· Shire of Waroona

· Town of Bassendean

· Town of Cambridge

· Town of Claremont

· Town of Cottesloe

· Town of Mosman Park

· Town of Victoria Park

· Town of Vincent

On Saturday 12 February between midnight and midnight any activity that could start a fire is banned.

This means

* you must not light or use any fires in the open air
* 'hot work' such as metal work, grinding or the like is not allowed unless you have an exemption.

If a Harvest and Vehicle Movement Ban has not been implemented by your local government you are able to harvest or move vehicles across paddocks as long as you have a firefighting vehicle on site with, a minimum of 400 litres of water.

You could be fined up to $25,000 or jailed for 12 months or both if you ignore the Total Fire Ban.

This information is also available by calling 1300 657 209 or visiting www.fesa.wa.gov.au

For information on the activities that can or cannot be undertaken during a Total Fire Ban visit www.fesa.wa.gov.au. If the information you are seeking is not available from the website call 1800 280 721.

https://internet.fesa.wa.gov.au/totalfirebans/Pages/Alert.aspx?ItemId=2131

IFocus · 12 February 2011

The FESA site is quite good

https://internet.fesa.wa.gov.au/alerts/Pages/Alerts.aspx

drsmith · 12 February 2011

The filters inside evaporative aircontioning units must be flammable.

FESA's Craig Hynes says many of the homes destroyed were not in the line of the fire and it is now evident they burnt down because of evaporative air conditioning units.

"The dry filters are really a wick for properties; embers get into them and they burn quickly through the roofs," he said.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/02/10/3134956.htm

Smurf1976 · 12 February 2011

drsmith said:
The filters inside evaporative aircontioning units must be flammable.

They are made from what I would describe as "grated" wood ("grated" in the context of how you would grate cheese etc). Lots of little thin pieces of wood that curl up and so on - like grated cheese. That material is arranged to form the filter, generally contained by a plastic net type material.

I think there's some different materials being used in some of the newer ones, but that's what they used to have in them.

In normal operation, water is trickled over the filters such that they are wet. This is fundamental to the operation of these systems.

A practical engineering solution would be to have a means of running the water pump (thus keeping the filters saturated) without running the fan for use in a fire situation. Either that or automatically closing shutters over the intake (like some extractor fans have) which would cover the filters when the power is switched off and prevent the entry of embers.

Whilst these measures would rely on the unit being switched off in the event of embers etc, only a fool would keep it running anyway since the means of operation is to suck outside air into the house - and nobody in their right mind would want a house full of smoke.

drsmith · 12 February 2011

Smurf1976 said:
Whilst these measures would rely on the unit being switched off in the event of embers etc, only a fool would keep it running anyway since the means of operation is to suck outside air into the house - and nobody in their right mind would want a house full of smoke.

Part of FESA's advice when under threat of a fire it to turn off evaporative coolers.

I can recall some radio commentary during the week where houses still burnt from via the evaporative cooler even though the unit was turned off. Maintaining water to the filters was suggested.

I know someone that "winterises" their unit during the cooler months. I'm not sure exactly what that involves, but if it involves climbing onto the roof and attaching side panels or adjusting vents, that may not be practical where there is a rapidly approaching fire.

I can see FESA's advice changing after last weekends events.

IFocus · 12 February 2011

drsmith said:
Part of FESA's advice when under threat of a fire it to turn off evaporative coolers.

I can recall some radio commentary during the week where houses still burnt from via the evaporative cooler even though the unit was turned off. Maintaining water to the filters was suggested.

I know someone that "winterises" their unit during the cooler months. I'm not sure exactly what that involves, but if it involves climbing onto the roof and attaching side panels or adjusting vents, that may not be practical where there is a rapidly approaching fire.

I can see FESA's advice changing after last weekends events.

The filters are highly flammable plus the bodies generally made of fiber glass.

My evap I can run the pump independent of the aircond to keep the filters wet plus in case of a power failure I have an outside sprinkler to keep the fiber glass body and filters wet.

I noticed many of the homes that burnt had swimming pools for another $1000 they could have had a fuel driven pump and roof sprinklers using the pools as fire water supply

This is what I have http://www.highpressurewashers.com.au/2incastpressurepump.html empties a 22,000 lt tank in 1 hour turns the place into a tropical down pour.

A bit of poly pipe and vertical sprays around the gutters with a couple of knocker sprinklers and you stand a chance

bellenuit · 12 February 2011

Fire threatens Muchea

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/wa/8823333/fire-threatens-muchea/

IFocus · 13 February 2011

Hows everyone feel about the police arresting people going back to defend the home or get the pets or yesterday a woman was threaten with arrest because she wanted to go back to get her kids?

Personally I think it sucks, nanny state gone mad if you want to go back you are on you're own and face the consequences good or bad with no one else taking risks to help.

What ever happened to our independence?

Another one that riled me was media, politicians for photo ops, etc in the fire zones, peoples burnt down houses etc while the residents were still stopped from going back

drsmith · 13 February 2011

IFocus said:
What ever happened to our independence?

I can't comment specifically on the fire, but my general perception is that the population as a whole is increasingly being managed more and more like cattle.

Julia · 13 February 2011

IFocus said:
Hows everyone feel about the police arresting people going back to defend the home or get the pets or yesterday a woman was threaten with arrest because she wanted to go back to get her kids?

Personally I think it sucks, nanny state gone mad if you want to go back you are on you're own and face the consequences good or bad with no one else taking risks to help.

What ever happened to our independence?

Another one that riled me was media, politicians for photo ops, etc in the fire zones, peoples burnt down houses etc while the residents were still stopped from going back

I agree with you, both on the actual instance of not allowing people to make their own decisions, and also the increasing level of the nanny state.

But I suppose there will be plenty who would criticise authorities if they didn't insist on people leaving, saying they failed to act in the public interest/failed their duty of care etc etc.

Bushfires in Perth

IFocus

You are arguing with a Galah

Whiskers

It's a small world

IFocus

You are arguing with a Galah

Tink

Smurf1976

Whiskers

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bellenuit

IFocus

You are arguing with a Galah

IFocus

You are arguing with a Galah

drsmith

Smurf1976

drsmith

IFocus

You are arguing with a Galah

bellenuit

IFocus

You are arguing with a Galah

drsmith

Julia

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