BLT - Benitec Biopharma

Re: BLT - Benitec Limited

This is what it is all about:

"Nucleonics challenges Benitec's patent validity
Related Product Information
Genomics / Proteomics

13/09/2004 - Biotechnology Company, Nucleonics, has filed a request with the Commissioner of Patents in Australia for Re-Examination, which questions the validity of Benitec’s patent concerning gene-silencing technology claiming ambiguity and lack adequate support in the specification.

The patent, entitled "Control of Gene Expression," is at the heart of this latest dispute. Nucleonics' request has cited 24 prior art publications showing the patent claims are invalid because they lack novelty and do not involve an inventive step.
In March 2004, Benitec filed an infringement suit in the United States against Nucleonics. The lawsuit alleged that three companies, Nucleonics, Inc., Ambion, Inc., and Genscript Corporation, were infringing upon issued US Patent No. 6,573,099, entitled "Genetic Constructs for Delaying or Repressing the Expression of a Target Gene."

In addition, Benitec has filed an opposition in Australia to the grant of a patent for the seminal invention in RNA interference, the Fire/Mello Patent, while failing to cite this important earlier work in its own applications around the world.

The Fire/Mello RNAi technology employs an expressed interfering RNA (eiRNA) approach, whereby scientists insert plasmid DNA coding for relevant double-stranded RNA (dsRNA) into targeted cells, letting the cells produce and deliver specific dsRNA sequences. Cellular mechanisms cleave the dsRNA into specifically encoded siRNAs(short interfering RNA), which silence the targeted genes.

Nucleonics' researchers have shown the ability of long or short dsRNA strands produced in this way to stably silence genes, including Hepatitis B and HIV, in relevant cell lines. Moreover, they have silenced multiple genes, as well as HBV replication, in adult mice without triggering an interferon response.

The plasmid DNA approach used by Nucleonics for expression of dsRNA has demonstrated human safety in over 500 patients to date, as part of research in the field of DNA-based vaccines. Nucleonics is initially directing this technology to the development of eiRNA therapeutics for Hepatitis B virus and Hepatitis C virus infections.

Robert Towarnicki, Nucleonics' chief executive officer said: "Nucleonics believes the Benitec intellectual property portfolio is fatally flawed, not only in Australia, but in the United States and elsewhere as well."

"We intend to vigorously defend our right to continue to develop needed therapeutics for chronic viral diseases such as Hepatitis B and Hepatitis C around the world."

Re: BLT - Benitec Limited

Exactly - and you can see this is old news.

Given this has been the case since 2004 you can see why some long-term holders were so surprised by the major spike to 48c of late. Fundamentally nothing had changed in terms of IP risk at that point.... All we had was a licence deal that kind of implied that Phizer by default as a large player must have done sufficient due diligence before pursuing a licence. Hence the assumption perhaps by the market that risks were becoming increasingly small. The recent announcement has hit home that BLT is still fundamentally highly exposed in terms of competitive edge.

Can the new management team get through this?

Will the share price withstand this over the next 2-6 months which is the estimated time to finally resolve this IP matter?

Re: BLT - Benitec Limited

Talking of over-reactions.

I think its fair to say the spike in the share price was more of an over reaction than today.

Maybe a reality check that it is not all blue sky just yet.

If you're going long term you would expect events like today.

Not all smooth sailing to the top.

Re: BLT - Benitec Limited

Absolutely - 48c

20c - last week - was it a fair valuation?

13c - today - was the increased risk with the graham patent worth 7c drop?

Again... the problem is how the hell do you come up with a fair valuation at present for the IP portfolio and licensing potential?

Re: BLT - Benitec Limited

valuation determined by the big players, and the sheep just follow.

Re: BLT - Benitec Limited

Has anyone got a list of the significant holders? I'd like to see one.

Re: BLT - Benitec Limited

Invia Custodian Pty Ltd 9,569,200 5.55%
National Nominees Limited 16,492,278 9.56%
HSBC Custody Nominees (Australia) Limited 9,221,078 5.34%
SIGMA-ALDRICH PTY LIMITED 19,531,250 11.32%

Re: BLT - Benitec Limited

and.. according to NAB Online Trading:

Thorney at 10.2% (Pratt)
Kanilo at 7.5%

Re: BLT - Benitec Limited

_this item extract is undated - but probably as old as the litigation
***********************************************
'The third great revolution'

Benitec's director of research and technology, Ken Reed, said [yesterday] the company was confident of its patent position - "It's a great position to have. Mick Graham was the first, by two and a half years, to demonstrate its efficacy in animal cells.

"It's the third revolution in biotechnology - first there was recombinant DNA technology, then PCR, and now RNA interference," he said.

"We knew as soon as the world woke up to the fact that it could be used in mammalian cells, there would be the most massive brawl in relation to ownership of the patent.

"In recent years, once companies realized its value, everyone has been trawling back through their research in the early 1990s for anything that might allow them to claim priority. It's bigger than Ben Hur."

Re: BLT - Benitec Limited

vida said:

The patent in issue obviously is a very important one to the company, and very important to the company who is challenging the patent in litigation against Benitec. I hope it is all settled in favour of Benitec of course. We have to wait and see what happens over the next six months. They are going to reply to the re-examination issues as soon as they can and they hope the patent is simply approved this time. This is a possibility the CEO said. Then of course, the share price will spike again like you wouldn't believe I imagine.

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This patent issue will not be solved in six months if litigation is involved. The fact that litigation is underway and the first judgement stage has not yet been reached and the inevitable appeal means that there is at least several more years of indecision. Costs of this whole process thru the U.S. court system can run $10-20 million and in many cases bigger companies with deep pockets set out to destroy much smaller companies. Considering the value of these patents BLT need to come up with a very considerable sum of money just to stay in the fight. IMHO BLT might be forced to sell out for a pittance to bring on board a "big brother" to defend its patents. These fights are just too messy. Much easier to go play the U specs.

Re: BLT - Benitec Limited

I received an email from the CEO of Benitec, who provided an attachment 42 pages long detailing the patent re-examination. It concluded thus:

"Future Amendment Practice
9. In order to ensure full consideration of any amendments, affidavits or declarations, or other documents as evidence of patentability, such documents must be submitted in response to this Office action. Submissions after the next Office action, which is intended to be a final action, will be governed by the requirements of 37 CFR.116 which will be strictly enforced."

So this patent re-examination process is coming to an end soon. They have 2 months to respond and then it will soon afterwards come to a conclusion, they apparently have only a certain number of re-examinations and there have been several already, which have been dealt with. Some of the patent's applications have been rejected it apepars from this document I briefly scanned this morning. I don't understand it all so don't want to draw conclusions on it which may be incorrect.

This patent office decision will affect the litigation which relies on it, but the patent office issue does not rely on the litigation. However, it is extremely complex, I will have to enrol in a genetics degree before I can understand it all.

sydneysider said:

This patent issue will not be solved in six months if litigation is involved. The fact that litigation is underway and the first judgement stage has not yet been reached and the inevitable appeal means that there is at least several more years of indecision. Costs of this whole process thru the U.S. court system can run $10-20 million and in many cases bigger companies with deep pockets set out to destroy much smaller companies. Considering the value of these patents BLT need to come up with a very considerable sum of money just to stay in the fight. IMHO BLT might be forced to sell out for a pittance to bring on board a "big brother" to defend its patents. These fights are just too messy. Much easier to go play the U specs.

Click to expand...

Re: BLT - Benitec Limited

Hey Sydneysider
Why are you bothering to post! You are simply knocking Benitec at every angle without researching or investigating anything. It has already been pointed out that the costs of the patent issues is being covered by Benitec's patent insurance company. They had the insurance cover on these issues before any challenge came up, they are thus protected from financial disaster over it. If you dug a bit deeper into available information you would know the time frames they have available now. You are simply and continually spouting mis-information. I suspect you are ramping the stock down so that you can scoop up a sizeable parcel at bargain basement price for yourself. If you are not interested in the company you should spend your time elsewhere than on this thread. I just don't understand what you are on about or why.

sydneysider said:

This patent issue will not be solved in six months if litigation is involved. The fact that litigation is underway and the first judgement stage has not yet been reached and the inevitable appeal means that there is at least several more years of indecision. Costs of this whole process thru the U.S. court system can run $10-20 million and in many cases bigger companies with deep pockets set out to destroy much smaller companies. Considering the value of these patents BLT need to come up with a very considerable sum of money just to stay in the fight. IMHO BLT might be forced to sell out for a pittance to bring on board a "big brother" to defend its patents. These fights are just too messy. Much easier to go play the U specs.

Click to expand...

Re: BLT - Benitec Limited

Surprisingly stable today. I guess most people are sitting back wondering what will happen.

Re: BLT - Benitec Limited

Havent got a good feeling about em at the moment.

Re: BLT - Benitec Limited

If anyone would like me to email them a copy of the US Patent and Trade Mark Office document I have received from Benitec CEO, let me know and i will forward it on. Its quite a hefty technical document, but very interesting.

Re: BLT - Benitec Limited

vida said:

Hey Sydneysider
Why are you bothering to post! You are simply knocking Benitec at every angle without researching or investigating anything. It has already been pointed out that the costs of the patent issues is being covered by Benitec's patent insurance company. They had the insurance cover on these issues before any challenge came up, they are thus protected from financial disaster over it. If you dug a bit deeper into available information you would know the time frames they have available now. You are simply and continually spouting mis-information. I suspect you are ramping the stock down so that you can scoop up a sizeable parcel at bargain basement price for yourself. If you are not interested in the company you should spend your time elsewhere than on this thread. I just don't understand what you are on about or why.

Click to expand...

You do not appreciate the fact that many biotechs and technology companies use the US legal system to destroy or disable smaller rivals that threaten innovation. Patent litigation is a very powerful and very expensive tool. In the internet boom I held a six figure margined position in a small (half a billion market cap)technology company that had a number of interactive tv patents that got completely butchered by litigation from Disney. Since that time I have avoided any type of investment or speculation in entities with patent issues. I have followed a number of Aussie biotechs basically on technical action alone, as I am clueless on understanding the viability of their patent portfolios. I have never held shares in Benitec nor do I intend on taking any position. IMHO it is impossible to evalute the risk here, which explains why the recent placement was done at a few pennies. IF deep pockets in the biotech field saw promise in BLT then I can assure you that the placement price would have been much richer. It is unfortunate that a number of folks rushed into BLT and are now caught at very high prices. You say that BLT is protected by its insurance coverage. Do you know how much this coverage is for? I am sure that the ongoing premiums on US$ 20 million worth of litigation coverage would be fairly steep. You might care to make some inquiries with BLT but I doubt if they would tell you as this would be classified as confidential information. I suspect the US company dishing out "punishment" here has much deeper pockets by many multiples. My ramblings on this thread are merely meant as commentaries for consideration by those who are interested in BLT and who have never suffered a six figure loss from a heavy duty patent dispute where the loser was on the "right side" but got clobbered by technical issues from some very fine legal brains in the US patent world. I sincerely hope that you do very well with BLT and that my ramblings do not bear fruit.

Re: BLT - Benitec Limited

I think BLT will struggle. Can see it going sub 10's next week...

Hope not... as I hold.

Does anyone see anything to drive the share price in the short term?

Could be biotech stocks such as BLT have come back whilst resources have been a little flat. If resources get kicking again, money will leave biotechs once again....

Just a thought.

Re: BLT - Benitec Limited

Hi : I am sorry you were busted by Disney. That would have been devastating for you, to have lost such a lot of money to a patent issue. I would think though, that the recent placement was done on a few pennies, because at the time of brokering the deal the share price at market was down to around .02 cents. Would the doctor have invested his million dollars for the .02 cent shares if he did not have good evidence that it was a viable investment at the time? He was willing to take the risk. I personally do not have too much at stake. Its a speculative investment and by definition that means it is high risk. I don't know how much insurance cover they have, but obviously they are paying the premiums and they could win. They have won other legal patent battles. Of course, I know little really, just picked up a bit here and there by searching for information. We can only wait and see.

sydneysider said:

You do not appreciate the fact that many biotechs and technology companies use the US legal system to destroy or disable smaller rivals that threaten innovation. Patent litigation is a very powerful and very expensive tool. In the internet boom I held a six figure margined position in a small (half a billion market cap)technology company that had a number of interactive tv patents that got completely butchered by litigation from Disney. Since that time I have avoided any type of investment or speculation in entities with patent issues. I have followed a number of Aussie biotechs basically on technical action alone, as I am clueless on understanding the viability of their patent portfolios. I have never held shares in Benitec nor do I intend on taking any position. IMHO it is impossible to evalute the risk here, which explains why the recent placement was done at a few pennies. IF deep pockets in the biotech field saw promise in BLT then I can assure you that the placement price would have been much richer. It is unfortunate that a number of folks rushed into BLT and are now caught at very high prices. You say that BLT is protected by its insurance coverage. Do you know how much this coverage is for? I am sure that the ongoing premiums on US$ 20 million worth of litigation coverage would be fairly steep. You might care to make some inquiries with BLT but I doubt if they would tell you as this would be classified as confidential information. I suspect the US company dishing out "punishment" here has much deeper pockets by many multiples. My ramblings on this thread are merely meant as commentaries for consideration by those who are interested in BLT and who have never suffered a six figure loss from a heavy duty patent dispute where the loser was on the "right side" but got clobbered by technical issues from some very fine legal brains in the US patent world. I sincerely hope that you do very well with BLT and that my ramblings do not bear fruit.

Click to expand...

Re: BLT - Benitec Limited

I liked BLT too, for the twenty or so minutes that i had it.

Re: BLT - Benitec Limited

The oppies strike price is 32......so why were people buying oppies yesterday above 7c......including one big 750k purchase above 7....

I bought and sold in the recent spike....anyone know why someone thinks the oppies are worth such a big investment so far out of the money.

EB