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Best demo account?

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Lone Wolf

Lone Wolf

Joined
4 December 2008
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G'day,

I seem to be spending far too much time thinking about trading, investigating various trading strategies, considering which broker to use, but not nearly enough time actually placing trades.

I could paper trade. But I just can't treat paper trading like I do a real account. On paper I can trade with no hesitation or second thoughts. But when I see the figures moving around in real time on a trading platform it's a different story, I tend to hold back far more. I can however treat a demo account like real money, well very close anyway.

Any opinions on a good demo account? What follows is what I've found so far, it's shouldn't be this hard.

So open a demo account... What am I looking for? I have money to trade but no experience, so I won't be trading on a large scale for some time yet. Therefore I don't want money tied up in a brokers account doing nothing. But I do want to slide into real trading when it suits me. I want access to a broad range of markets, forex (mini lots), futures, index trading so I can trade the ASX200 and the FTSE (could use futures but I'd need mini lots, so not real futs), CFD's so I can take short term trades without tying up large amounts of cash, and direct shares so I can move my buy and hold investments out of managed funds and into shares or the STW ETF. I also don't want to have small amounts of cash spread around multiple brokers,

I am currently with Go Markets, pretty good for forex (MT4 platform and mini lots), mini lots for futures (market made product that tracks the futures) and CFD's. But direct shares aren't held in your name. From their site - "Please note that any stock held with us will be in a nominee account name so clients may not be entitled to all corporate actions." This means no imputation credits. Go also has no ongoing demo once you sign up (unless I'm mistaken of course), I think you can repeatedly sign up for the time limited MT4 demo. But this will give you forex only. Go offers free real time data for forex and "futures" on the MT4 platform. The GoTrader platform for CFD's and shares is 20 min delayed unless you pay. No minimum required to open an account.

So I need a different broker for direct shares and for demo trading.

For direct shares I was thinking First Prudential Markets. They tell me shares are held in my name and I will receive imputation credits. But they use webIRESS as their main platform, maybe I'd get used to it, but I'm not a fan from what I saw of the demo. Plus the platform and data fees are a bit high for a part time beginner trader. They do offer a free platform 'FP online' which is like webIRESS except you have to manually refresh the data. So I guess that would be ok. They also offer another platform called FP Global which looks the same as the Go markets platform, but they seem a bit vague on the details and kept steering me towards webIRESS. $5000 to open an account, $2000 minimum balance.

So I have my direct share trading through FP Markets and access to most other markets through Go. Great, but I started out looking for a demo... Perhaps these companies would provide me a demo account if I signed up and deposited the minimum amount. That is something I can ask. But I hate talking to brokers, "How's the demo going? Ready to put some real money on yet?" They know people like to demo, if they wanted me to demo they'd have it offered up front. They want real money on the trade.

IG markets - They offer cheap access to live data and a wide range of markets. Plus they offer DMA trading and DOM. But they are first and foremost market makers. I've heard many bad comments about IG, maybe just because they are popular and have many bad traders looking for someone to blame, but it's enough to put me off, I wish they were great, I really do. Feel free to try and talk me into it.

GFT - I haven't heard much, they seem to have a nice platform and a running demo with live market data... I can't see how long the practice account lasts though. I want to like these guys too, but they are pure market makers and I get the feeling I'm going to get constant emails or phone calls from them asking me if I'm ready to deposit funds. I know, it's their job, but I still don't like it.

Interactive Brokers - Apparently if you're a professional trader there's nowhere else to be. However, it has also been said that it's not great for people who don't trade often (more complicated setting things up). Plus, because the account is in America I don't think I can do direct shares through them and get imputation credits. But they do offer a paper trading account... but you need to pay for data. $10,000 USD to open an account (if over 21), I think $2000 USD minimum balance. If your account is in AUD then you'd need to give yourself extra margin in the account, it you sit on the edge and the AUD/USD rate falls too low you'll fall under the minimum account balance requirements.

I intend to be a full time trader in years to come, so maybe I should bite the bullet now and go with IB. But regardless of my intent for the future, I'm currently not a regular trader so that's about $5000 AUD sitting in an IB account going moldy. Plus the couple of thousand in Go to trade mini forex and mini "futures", plus more in FP markets for direct shares and CFD's.

I guess if a demo was your only wish and you don't mind paying for data you could say stuff the brokers, pay for a data provider, pump it into NinjaTrader and demo in there?

Anyway, I write too much. I hope I've at least given some lurker out there some ideas on what's around. I just need to tell Go to give me a permanent demo and to give me direct shares in my own name.
 
Re: Best demo account

Lone Wolf said:
IG markets - They offer cheap access to live data and a wide range of markets. Plus they offer DMA trading and DOM. But they are first and foremost market makers. I've heard many bad comments about IG, maybe just because they are popular and have many bad traders looking for someone to blame, but it's enough to put me off, I wish they were great, I really do. Feel free to try and talk me into it.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to talk you into it. So far, i have found their platform to be slow. During certain 'times', their market seems to 'roll over' and prices time out too quickly.
 
What am I looking for? I have money to trade but no experience, so I won't be trading on a large scale for some time yet.

Surely you have some life experience to draw from?

Why are you discounting yourself? :eek:

You might as well go for the Bergson gut intuition model than worry about what the bottom-dwellers have to offer for THEMSELVES, rather than you! Right? Seriously though they know as much as you do? Right?
 
GumbyLearner said:
Surely you have some life experience to draw from?

Why are you discounting yourself? :eek:

You might as well go for the Bergson gut intuition model than worry about what the bottom-dwellers have to offer for THEMSELVES, rather than you! Right? Seriously though they know as much as you do? Right?
Click to expand...

Sir, it's seems as though you may have stumbled in here on your way to the drunken rant thread. Either that or it's just getting late and my brain function has decreased too much for me fully grasp what you're getting at. :)

However, in response... Sure I have some life experience, but life experience doesn't equate to profitability in the markets, nor will it assist me much in my search of the best practice account. Why am I discounting myself? I'd say I have a reasonably realistic view of my own abilities. There's nothing wrong with having a low opinion of one's self, so long as that opinion is based on reality rather than a false perception. But then again, what is reality other than a person's perception? I digress.

I don't know about going purely with intuition rather than listening to others. I'd rather take on board the experiences and opinions of others, filter them with my own experience and judgment, then form an opinion based on that combination. Although it does sometimes seem that I'd do better to chose the opposite of whatever it was I logically concluded. As someone once said "Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence".

Oh and while I'm posting... Thanks Aussiest, for sharing your experiences with IG.
 
Re: Best demo account

Aussiest said:
I'm not going to talk you into it. So far, i have found their platform to be slow. During certain 'times', their market seems to 'roll over' and prices time out too quickly.
Click to expand...

I agree. Even on the demo account, it seems to be quite slow. It even manages to severely slow down my computer as well, but my computer isn't very fast to start off with. However, that didn't stop me from trashing the demo account from $100k down to a grand sum of $70. Well, looks like my experiments didn't quite work out. :D
 
DEMO ACCOUNT REVIEWS
Great forum guys!

I am looking at either a
SAXO BANK demo account (Sydney based) or an
Interactivebrokers demo account (US based)
I almost fell into the arms of Plus500 demo account but recieved timely advice to stay clear

As a total naive trader newbie (in real life a retired and slow moving pensioner bored mad with day time TV) I would appreciate any views, advice, experience or warnings on a suitable demo/paper account for an ancient Australia based newbie to learn new tricks? Or directions to the area of this forum where all these questions may have already been answered. (Newbie to forum navigation too)


Cheers
Old Dog
 
To answer my own now obviously rather basic questions ....
Interactivebrokers seem to have all the bells and whistles and a great AI Bot that answers your questions, the drawback is that they are based in the US (unless there is an AU branch I have missed?)
SAXO Bank in Sydney has a very nice lay out but IB still takes the cake.

But there is a seductive psychology at work in all these Startrek like demo platforms that lulls the newbie into a sense of anticipated victory. A couple of gains with demo paper trades and you feel it's so easy to make money and be a winner, especially if your watching Billions on TV at the same time.
Obviously it is not.

Memo to self #1 - tread carefully and find a mentor fast
Memo to self #2 - don't open a real account for 12 months
 
Lone Wolf said:
G'day,

I seem to be spending far too much time thinking about trading, investigating various trading strategies, considering which broker to use, but not nearly enough time actually placing trades.

I could paper trade. But I just can't treat paper trading like I do a real account. On paper I can trade with no hesitation or second thoughts. But when I see the figures moving around in real time on a trading platform it's a different story, I tend to hold back far more. I can however treat a demo account like real money, well very close anyway.

Any opinions on a good demo account? What follows is what I've found so far, it's shouldn't be this hard.

So open a demo account... What am I looking for? I have money to trade but no experience, so I won't be trading on a large scale for some time yet. Therefore I don't want money tied up in a brokers account doing nothing. But I do want to slide into real trading when it suits me. I want access to a broad range of markets, forex (mini lots), futures, index trading so I can trade the ASX200 and the FTSE (could use futures but I'd need mini lots, so not real futs), CFD's so I can take short term trades without tying up large amounts of cash, and direct shares so I can move my buy and hold investments out of managed funds and into shares or the STW ETF. I also don't want to have small amounts of cash spread around multiple brokers,

I am currently with Go Markets, pretty good for forex (MT4 platform and mini lots), mini lots for futures (market made product that tracks the futures) and CFD's. But direct shares aren't held in your name. From their site - "Please note that any stock held with us will be in a nominee account name so clients may not be entitled to all corporate actions." This means no imputation credits. Go also has no ongoing demo once you sign up (unless I'm mistaken of course), I think you can repeatedly sign up for the time limited MT4 demo. But this will give you forex only. Go offers free real time data for forex and "futures" on the MT4 platform. The GoTrader platform for CFD's and shares is 20 min delayed unless you pay. No minimum required to open an account.

So I need a different broker for direct shares and for demo trading.

For direct shares I was thinking First Prudential Markets. They tell me shares are held in my name and I will receive imputation credits. But they use webIRESS as their main platform, maybe I'd get used to it, but I'm not a fan from what I saw of the demo. Plus the platform and data fees are a bit high for a part time beginner trader. They do offer a free platform 'FP online' which is like webIRESS except you have to manually refresh the data. So I guess that would be ok. They also offer another platform called FP Global which looks the same as the Go markets platform, but they seem a bit vague on the details and kept steering me towards webIRESS. $5000 to open an account, $2000 minimum balance.

So I have my direct share trading through FP Markets and access to most other markets through Go. Great, but I started out looking for a demo... Perhaps these companies would provide me a demo account if I signed up and deposited the minimum amount. That is something I can ask. But I hate talking to brokers, "How's the demo going? Ready to put some real money on yet?" They know people like to demo, if they wanted me to demo they'd have it offered up front. They want real money on the trade.

IG markets - They offer cheap access to live data and a wide range of markets. Plus they offer DMA trading and DOM. But they are first and foremost market makers. I've heard many bad comments about IG, maybe just because they are popular and have many bad traders looking for someone to blame, but it's enough to put me off, I wish they were great, I really do. Feel free to try and talk me into it.

GFT - I haven't heard much, they seem to have a nice platform and a running demo with live market data... I can't see how long the practice account lasts though. I want to like these guys too, but they are pure market makers and I get the feeling I'm going to get constant emails or phone calls from them asking me if I'm ready to deposit funds. I know, it's their job, but I still don't like it.

Interactive Brokers - Apparently if you're a professional trader there's nowhere else to be. However, it has also been said that it's not great for people who don't trade often (more complicated setting things up). Plus, because the account is in America I don't think I can do direct shares through them and get imputation credits. But they do offer a paper trading account... but you need to pay for data. $10,000 USD to open an account (if over 21), I think $2000 USD minimum balance. If your account is in AUD then you'd need to give yourself extra margin in the account, it you sit on the edge and the AUD/USD rate falls too low you'll fall under the minimum account balance requirements.

I intend to be a full time trader in years to come, so maybe I should bite the bullet now and go with IB. But regardless of my intent for the future, I'm currently not a regular trader so that's about $5000 AUD sitting in an IB account going moldy. Plus the couple of thousand in Go to trade mini forex and mini "futures", plus more in FP markets for direct shares and CFD's.

I guess if a demo was your only wish and you don't mind paying for data you could say stuff the brokers, pay for a data provider, pump it into NinjaTrader and demo in there?

Anyway, I write too much. I hope I've at least given some lurker out there some ideas on what's around. I just need to tell Go to give me a permanent demo and to give me direct shares in my own name.
Click to expand...

Grateful lurker says THANKS
 
I find that I am having to open more and more accounts every time I want to trade a new financial product. I dont think there is one broker out there that will cover everything you want to trade. Especially if you want mini lots. Here's my 2 cents on accounts I've have/had.

Saxo - Seems to have the broadest range of instruments to trade. Demo account only lasts a limited time. I cant remember if it is 1 or 3 months. I had to set a recurring appointment in my calendar to call customer service to beg them to extend my demo account for another 3 months. And try getting through to the aussie client desk for any account related queries once your account is live and funded. Once your demo account expires. You need a NEW email address to sign up for a new demo account. I gave up in the end. I still use my live account to trade. They offer FX, Commodity futures and futures option/spreads, equities (cash and cfd) and stock options. Spot FX is traded by unit not lots and you can buy $100 worth of currencies if you so wish. I rarely see mini lots but it might be that I've never searched hard enough. Let me know if there is something in particular you want me to check. Mobile app is good. I use the mobile app to decide if I need to roll out of bed to trade form PC or to check on my trades when I am out. I dont really trade from them.

Oanda - some commodities, some fixed income, most major indices, FX, no stocks. Don't expect exotic FX pairs. All instruments traded by units/ value. Thumbs up for demo account and mobile app.

IG - has a bit of everything. Similiar to Saxo but no equity/futures options. I'm not sure about imputation credits as I rarely buy stocks through them. But I know that if you want to send through your vote for AGM, you need to contact their corporate actions team and they will send the instruction on your behalf. Otherwise, you won't a hear a peep from them about corporate actions (unless its a share purchase plan etc). Really dislike that they have separate trading platforms for shares and CFD/ FX. So you need to navigate to different parts of the trading platform and move your money around between the 2 platforms too! Demo account for CFDs only. Offers mini lots on indices/FX.

IB -Recently re-opened my account having closed it a few years ago when I realised they dont offer FX for aussie clients. They do now. And $10000AUD was enough to activate my account (not $10000USD). Sign up process was slightly painful and inefficient. The questions they ask around income/ assets are linked to the instruments you can trade. There is a disparity between providing an income bracket (which is in AUD) and the minimum income/assets you need (which is in USD) in order to trade CFD, options etc. Took a few days to get that sorted as it has to be approved by the compliance team blah blah. Seems to have a similiar range of instruments as Saxo but I've only had my account for 2 weeks so I haven't explored it fully yet. Haven't used the demo account yet.

Westpac Securities - I like Westpac Securities because it simple and straightfoward and gives me enough free live data to trade aussie stocks. And at least my money earns some interest while it is sitting around idle (through their cash management account). I think Commsec/ NAB Trade will ofer something similiar. Haven't seen a demo account for Westpac though.

Hope this helps.
 
Oh dear. This thread is almost 10 yrs old. Did not see that before I wrote such a lenthy post.

Old Dog - start with Saxo Demo to get a feel for trading different instruments. Their web interface is sleek and fairly straight forward. Sign up process takes 2 mins and all you need to provide is an email address.
 
I'm not sure what's around these days. Try the above suggestions, if it provides accurate data, records your trading history and never expires then that's about as good as you can ask for. Note that it's a CFD provider so it's a bit different to straight stock trading.

You didn't say what you want to trade or on what timeframe. If you are intending to trade stocks and holding for a few days/weeks/months - then you could just use a spreadsheet to record your trades and track your profit/loss, win/loss ratio etc. You don't need a demo account to paper trade. The bigger question is how you intend to find those trades? You need price and volume data for all stocks. You need a method of searching through all the available stocks just to find the few that you actually like. You need a way of testing whether your trade ideas have a profitable edge, rather than just random luck of the draw.

If stocks are your thing, I suggest reading the thread by Peter2:
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/threads/asx-momentum-trade-book-part-2.29971/

Even if it's not your style, that thread is a practical demonstration of someone putting together a trading plan, following it, making adjustments according to results and market conditions and being successful while doing it.
 
just_joell said:
I find that I am having to open more and more accounts every time I want to trade a new financial product. I dont think there is one broker out there that will cover everything you want to trade. Especially if you want mini lots. Here's my 2 cents on accounts I've have/had.

Saxo - Seems to have the broadest range of instruments to trade. Demo account only lasts a limited time. I cant remember if it is 1 or 3 months. I had to set a recurring appointment in my calendar to call customer service to beg them to extend my demo account for another 3 months. And try getting through to the aussie client desk for any account related queries once your account is live and funded. Once your demo account expires. You need a NEW email address to sign up for a new demo account. I gave up in the end. I still use my live account to trade. They offer FX, Commodity futures and futures option/spreads, equities (cash and cfd) and stock options. Spot FX is traded by unit not lots and you can buy $100 worth of currencies if you so wish. I rarely see mini lots but it might be that I've never searched hard enough. Let me know if there is something in particular you want me to check. Mobile app is good. I use the mobile app to decide if I need to roll out of bed to trade form PC or to check on my trades when I am out. I dont really trade from them.

Oanda - some commodities, some fixed income, most major indices, FX, no stocks. Don't expect exotic FX pairs. All instruments traded by units/ value. Thumbs up for demo account and mobile app.

IG - has a bit of everything. Similiar to Saxo but no equity/futures options. I'm not sure about imputation credits as I rarely buy stocks through them. But I know that if you want to send through your vote for AGM, you need to contact their corporate actions team and they will send the instruction on your behalf. Otherwise, you won't a hear a peep from them about corporate actions (unless its a share purchase plan etc). Really dislike that they have separate trading platforms for shares and CFD/ FX. So you need to navigate to different parts of the trading platform and move your money around between the 2 platforms too! Demo account for CFDs only. Offers mini lots on indices/FX.

IB -Recently re-opened my account having closed it a few years ago when I realised they dont offer FX for aussie clients. They do now. And $10000AUD was enough to activate my account (not $10000USD). Sign up process was slightly painful and inefficient. The questions they ask around income/ assets are linked to the instruments you can trade. There is a disparity between providing an income bracket (which is in AUD) and the minimum income/assets you need (which is in USD) in order to trade CFD, options etc. Took a few days to get that sorted as it has to be approved by the compliance team blah blah. Seems to have a similiar range of instruments as Saxo but I've only had my account for 2 weeks so I haven't explored it fully yet. Haven't used the demo account yet.

Westpac Securities - I like Westpac Securities because it simple and straightfoward and gives me enough free live data to trade aussie stocks. And at least my money earns some interest while it is sitting around idle (through their cash management account). I think Commsec/ NAB Trade will ofer something similiar. Haven't seen a demo account for Westpac though.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...


Helps a lot - sincere thanks !
 
just_joell said:
Oh dear. This thread is almost 10 yrs old. Did not see that before I wrote such a lenthy post.

Old Dog - start with Saxo Demo to get a feel for trading different instruments. Their web interface is sleek and fairly straight forward. Sign up process takes 2 mins and all you need to provide is an email address.
Click to expand...

Very thoughtful of you -Thanks ! In fact I have signd with SAXO and am getting used to all the charts and buttons on SAXO TRADERPRO which is exactly how you described it. Very sleek.
And also the very impressive InterActive brokers interface with its AI Bot - think it is only the US site. Bit like Siri for trading

What I need next is learning the basics, some quality sources of information on...er... (embarrassed pause) well just about everything because I have never been any where near a stock market before. But after the last superannuation report (such depressing reading) felt I might just as well have a go myself. But I am a total newcomer to ideas like 'shorting the stock' - although I know have that one down. So looking for reading or video material now on terms, tactics, and tech analysis.

NB This week two in my venture into this weird intoxicating world and I am enjoying myself immensely with demo accounts.

Cheers
 
This is a good a place as any to start.
https://www.investopedia.com/university/stocks/

The ASX site has some pretty good courses too.
https://www.asx.com.au/education/shares-course.htm

And for forex...
https://www.babypips.com/learn/forex

I prefer to read hardcopies, so heading down to your local library might be an idea as well. The link below should return search results for all Australian libraries
https://trove.nla.gov.au/book
or if you are in Victoria
https://llv.net.au/zportal/zengine

Then once you get the hang of those, you need to start thinking about your trading plan which will consist of what you want to trade, your timeframe, your entry/exit system, position sizing, how you manage your risk etc.
 
very grateful for your kindness and generosity
I am lost in the woods of "too much information" so your focus is very much appreciated

Cheers
 

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