Barack Obama!

wayneL · 26 July 2008

Re: Barack 2008!

Doris said:
Barack in Berlin

This has been anticipated by the press to be an historic speech.
Video and the transcript. Watch or read or read as you watch:

I listened to the whole thing, even managed not to scream at the screen, even though my bullsh!t meter was registering maximum.

How can the world trust a man who has such poor grasp of the real issues of this planet and indulges in such populous, syrupy sweet platitudes that makes any pragmatist want to vomit? Yet reading between the lines, there is a dangerous agenda for liberty loving humanity.

This man speaks with forked tongue.

And the problem is, the alternative is not very palatable either.

Julia · 26 July 2008

Re: Barack 2008!

His whistlestop tour of the Middle East and Europe has only reinforced my view that he is nothing more than a charismatic charlatan who would be gravely out of his depth if elected leader of the free world.

The "out of his depth" sentiment resonates with me. It's one thing to be able to look personable and use a good speaking voice to mouth platitudes, but quite another to actually take responsibility for such a huge position as President of the USA.

His quasi hysterical following is reminiscent of that following a rock star but I wonder if the great American public are just indulging themselves with him at this stage, but will ultimately opt for the age (and presumed wisdom) of McCain. He is less than appealing also. I'm glad I don't have the responsibility of choosing one of these two totally unattractive candidates.

skint · 26 July 2008

Re: Barack 2008!

wayneL said:
I listened to the whole thing, even managed not to scream at the screen, even though my bullsh!t meter was registering maximum.

How can the world trust a man who has such poor grasp of the real issues of this planet and indulges in such populous, syrupy sweet platitudes that makes any pragmatist want to vomit? Yet reading between the lines, there is a dangerous agenda for liberty loving humanity.

This man speaks with forked tongue.

And the problem is, the alternative is not very palatable either.

I can't recall an American president or candidate who doesn't deliver speeches full of "populous, syrupy sweet, platitudes". The best clues are what those platitudes are directed at. Although his ablitiy to address the issues can only be viewed historically, the issues are bang on the money. Whereas McCain's focusing on continueing the Bush administration's efforts at decimating the American economy by "Bomb, bomb, bombing Iran", and so on, further increasing a catastrophic debt, at least Obama is proposing to address the real issues. Take a couple of other examples:

Health - the States is the only modern economy that I can think of that does not have a national health system. From either a humane or economic perspective, access to health care is vital and a given in just about all developed countries.

It is also one of the greatest impediments to social mobility. American's regard their country as 'the land of opportunity, however it has lower social mobility than pretty much anywhere in the developed world ie. an expensive entrenched underclass. At least the Democrats are talking about addressing the issue.

Climate change - save for a few who regard themselves as more qualified to comment than the near consensus in the scientific community who are qualified, it's generally agreed the costs of inaction are far greater than the costs of action. Again, McGoat is silent.

Remains to be seen how he does if/when he achieves office. I shudder to think how much further the US and the rest of the world will suffer if the neo-cons (in whatever clothing) continue their hatchet job on everything from health to world peace to the economy.

2020hindsight · 26 July 2008

Re: Barack 2008!

skint said:
...Health - the States is the only modern economy that I can think of that does not have a national health system. From either a humane or economic perspective, access to health care is vital and a given in just about all developed countries.

well skint , we have Gough to thank for that

wayneL · 26 July 2008

Re: Barack 2008!

the near consensus in the scientific community who are qualified, it's generally agreed the costs of inaction are far greater than the costs of action. Again, McGoat is silent.

Near consensus does not indicate intellectual integrity, particularly in something so successfully contested by the great body of dissenters (which actually shows less consensus that portrayed), it shows that there is a great political/financial/social expediency, ergo, a gravy train.

There are great costs of inaction, but there may be greater cost with wrong-action. Obama, just like the other compartments on the gravy train propose wrong-action. This will be at great cost to liberty and paradoxically, the environment as well.

Doris · 26 July 2008

Re: Barack 2008!

2020hindsight said:
Doris, Big decision / gamble to do that talk in Berlin, yes? - still he seems to be able to get away with it. (another first for a mere candidate).

Barack's most likely running mate keeps changing lol.
Evan Bayh now favourite. - yet more reading up to do.

Loved how he began and ended his speech with 'improbable':
"The journey that led me here is improbable."
"We are a people of improbable hope."

Loved his use of alliteration and imagery:
'From Kiev to Cape Town, prison camps were closed, and the doors of democracy were opened.'

'The streets where we stand were filled with hungry families who had no comfort from the cold.
But in the darkest hours, the people of Berlin kept the flame of hope burning.'

Loved his dig at GWB and Guantanamo Bay:
'Will we reject torture and stand for the rule of law?'

At least he didn't speak before 200,000 people in Paris, because Americans are suspicious of the French as we know. Oh, but then President Nicolas Sarkozy said those things in an interview with Le Figaro. "Obama? He's my pal. Unlike my diplomatic advisers, I never believed in Hillary Clinton's chances. I always said that Obama would be nominated." The Hillary folk are going to love that.

His aim was to establish a rapport with the leaders he met and revive the memory of historic symbiosis... WWII:

This city, of all cities, knows the dream of freedom. And you know that the only reason we stand here tonight is because men and women from both of our nations came together to work, and struggle, and sacrifice for that better life.

Look at Berlin, where Germans and Americans learned to work together and trust each other less than three years after facing each other on the field of battle.

He made them see that he had listened and heard and understood what Europeans thought:

In Europe, the view that America is part of what has gone wrong in our world, rather than a force to help make it right, has become all too common.

I thought McCain would castigate him over this! Isn't this comment reminiscent of Rev Wright's rants about '9/11 and chickens coming home to roost'? He was brave enough and honest enough to acknowledge animosity towards the foreign policies of his country.

(Sulky sour-grapes McCain said he would like to give a speech in Berlin.
... as president of the US not as a contender. Humph!):

And then Barack planted the seed for their cooperation:

Yes, there have been differences between America and Europe. No doubt, there will be differences in the future. But the burdens of global citizenship continue to bind us together. A change of leadership in Washington will not lift this burden. In this new century, Americans and Europeans alike will be required to do more – not less. Partnership and cooperation among nations is not a choice; it is the one way, the only way, to protect our common security and advance our common humanity.

He encapsulated the crises facing common humanity:

As we speak, cars in Boston and factories in Beijing are melting the ice caps in the Arctic, shrinking coastlines in the Atlantic, and bringing drought to farms from Kansas to Kenya.

Poorly secured nuclear material in the former Soviet Union, or secrets from a scientist in Pakistan could help build a bomb that detonates in Paris. The poppies in Afghanistan become the heroin in Berlin. The poverty and violence in Somalia breeds the terror of tomorrow. The genocide in Darfur shames the conscience of us all.

In this new world, such dangerous currents have swept along faster than our efforts to contain them. That is why we cannot afford to be divided.

He made them feel important and valued... reminded them that the US had helped them in the past:

America has no better partner than Europe. Now is the time to build new bridges across the globe as strong as the one that bound us across the Atlantic. Now is the time to join together, through constant cooperation, strong institutions, shared sacrifice, and a global commitment to progress, to meet the challenges of the 21st century. It was this spirit that led airlift planes to appear in the sky above our heads, and people to assemble where we stand today. And this is the moment when our nations – and all nations – must summon that spirit anew.

McCain rattled for Barack to go to the front and discard his neophyte label.
Then the media jumps on his absence for all this time! A week!
They want him to save the US - not the world!

The word from the "fly-over states" – otherwise known as the heartland – meanwhile, was "What about us?" "What about our economy?" Or as one Pennsylvania voter put it, it's great if the Germans love him but they ain't voting in November.

Obama found himself defending spending so much time abroad. He has used it to lobby for more European troops in Afghanistan, he told CNN. That will mean fewer American troops there, "which means we are spending fewer billions of dollars and we can invest those billions of dollars in making sure that we providing tax cuts to middle-class families struggling with gas prices".

How would Europeans view this statement? Was he merely manipulating them?!

Now he’s a tall poppy will the press continue these recent chops?
His charismatic trip is criticized as though they own him - not the world!

*Dallas Morning News: "The Obama speech no doubt played well in Berlin – but what about in Peoria? The Obama campaign ran a real risk scheduling this address in a European capital at a time when Americans are suffering from the worst economic crisis in at least a generation ... After all, Mr Obama is running to be president of the United States, not king of the world."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ockstar-moment-in-berlin-backfire-877802.html

skint · 26 July 2008

Re: Barack 2008!

2020hindsight said:
well skint , we have Gough to thank for that

Hi 20/20...and free education, no fault divorce, ended concription, reduced tarriffs, opened relations with China etc..

He tried to do a bit but much too soon and foreign policy unfortunately wasn't his strong suit, but the progressive reforms way outshine the shortcomings IMHO. BTW, In the last half of the Howard years, thay were the only government who managed to outspend Whitlam in relevant terms!

wayneL · 26 July 2008

Re: Barack 2008!

skint said:
Hi 20/20...and free education, no fault divorce, ended concription, reduced tarriffs, opened relations with China etc..

He tried to do a bit but much too soon and foreign policy unfortunately wasn't his strong suit, but the progressive reforms way outshine the shortcomings IMHO. BTW, In the last half of the Howard years, thay were the only government who managed to outspend Whitlam in relevant terms!

...and the ideologue doth reveal itself.

skint · 26 July 2008

Re: Barack 2008!

wayneL said:
This will be at great cost to liberty and paradoxically, the environment as well.

Sounds like a "syrupy sweet platitude" to me. It reads like "if we recognise that a healthy environment is inextricrably linked to a robust economy, it will be the end of Truth, Justice and the American Way and life as we know it." Bit of catastrophising there. Care to expand on what you meant?

skint · 26 July 2008

Re: Barack 2008!

wayneL said:
...and the ideologue doth reveal itself.

No, an idealogue would not recognise the failings.

Doris · 26 July 2008

Re: Barack 2008!

2020hindsight said:
Barack's most likely running mate keeps changing lol.
Evan Bayh now favourite. - yet more reading up to do.

Me too...

He certainly has all the symptoms of Obama's values:

His signature legislative efforts are aimed at strengthening national security, creating more jobs through the growth of small businesses, protecting American workers from unfair trade practices, encouraging responsible fatherhood and providing tax-relief for families struggling with the rising costs of college, retirement and the long-term care of a loved one. Bayh has taken the lead in providing our troops with the armored vehicles they need and has visited Iraq and Afghanistan several times for a first-hand look at the progress on-the-ground. He has also led the fight to cut through the mire of bureaucracy to ensure our nation's wounded soldiers receive the high quality care they need and deserve.

His record looks good experience for hard economic times!

Before his election to the Senate, Bayh was elected in 1988 to the first of two terms as Governor of Indiana, where he established the state as one of the strongest, most financially secure economies in the nation.

Stressing fiscal responsibility, lower taxes, job creation and lean government, Bayh's list of achievements include: eight years without raising taxes; the greatest single tax cut and largest budget surplus in state history; national leadership in moving people from welfare to work; more dollars for schools every year; high academic standards and new college opportunities for all, including low-income students; more than 350,000 new jobs; tougher laws on crime; and improved environmental quality.

http://bayh.senate.gov/about/biography/

But he could make a top adviser. I'd prefer Kathleen Sebelius... need a woman at the top!

Doris · 26 July 2008

Re: Barack 2008!

wayneL said:
I listened to the whole thing, even managed not to scream at the screen, even though my bullsh!t meter was registering maximum.

Now Wayne... it's OK to reveal your emotions!
But it's admirable that you kept your mouth shut and listened.

How can the world trust a man who has such poor grasp of the real issues of this planet and indulges in such populous, syrupy sweet platitudes that makes any pragmatist want to vomit? Yet reading between the lines, there is a dangerous agenda for liberty loving humanity.

This man speaks with forked tongue.

And the problem is, the alternative is not very palatable either.

What issues did he omit?

Spit them out!

... forked tongue and all.

Do you think his speech was a sinister prelude to mandatory involvement in his future battle scenarios?

I have to say I admire his public introduction of himself outside his own country and his simultaneous achievement of introducing his concept of mustering the free countries of the world to be more involved in the solutions for the down-trodden ones... Darfur, Zimbabwe, Burma, Somalia etc

Perhaps a hidden agenda is pragmatically to enable him to focus on re-building the health and strength of his own country, thus saving many billions by organizing the rest of the world to do their share?

Note he focused on their supporting Afghanistan... not Iraq!

As I've said, I'm a David E Kelly addict. He's had several episodes of Boston Legal where Alan Shore has decried the billions the US has spent on aid to the rest of the world whilst millions of Americans are living in poverty.
Also the conditions the US has demanded in return for monetary favours.

Hmmm... Maybe Kelly is one of Obama's advisers...

Doris · 27 July 2008

Re: Barack 2008!

German Government Sees Obama Speech as "Positive Signal"

The German government sees the Berlin speech by US Senator Barack Obama as "a positive signal to Europe".

Obama's call for close international cooperation in dealing with global challenges was in line with the views of Chancellor Angela Merkel and her broad coalition government.

Eckart von Klaeden, foreign policy spokesman, said the speech had been in the best tradition of US foreign policy.

Speaking to German media, Von Klaeden said the speech could as well have been made by Obama's rival for the US presidency, Republican Senator John McCain.

Howzat for having an impartial each-way bet!

Other German politicians said:

"It was the speech of a man of the world that was directed not only at Germans and Europeans, but also at Americans."

"Obama had raised outstanding issues that Germany and Europe had to respond to, for example the German contribution to the NATO effort in Afghanistan."

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,3514249,00.html

Mr McCain is hoping that by touring small towns in the US and focusing on domestic issues, he will score points with voters who care little about foreign policy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7524300.stm

Obama Gives A Speech We All Can Agree With

In his speech the Illinois Senator went through a whole laundry list of international hotspots. From Amman to Iran, from Belfast to Burma, from Darfur to Pakistan. No crisis left behind seemed to be the unspoken motto of the speech. And the solution offered to the various global problems was always the same. If we all work together, overcome our differences of the past we can succeed.

http://blogs.dw-world.de/acrossthepond/michael/1.6844.html

wayneL · 27 July 2008

Re: Barack 2008!

Doris said:
Now Wayne... it's OK to reveal your emotions!
But it's admirable that you kept your mouth shut and listened.

What issues did he omit?

Spit them out!

... forked tongue and all.

Do you think his speech was a sinister prelude to mandatory involvement in his future battle scenarios?

I have to say I admire his public introduction of himself outside his own country and his simultaneous achievement of introducing his concept of mustering the free countries of the world to be more involved in the solutions for the down-trodden ones... Darfur, Zimbabwe, Burma, Somalia etc

Perhaps a hidden agenda is pragmatically to enable him to focus on re-building the health and strength of his own country, thus saving many billions by organizing the rest of the world to do their share?

Note he focused on their supporting Afghanistan... not Iraq!

As I've said, I'm a David E Kelly addict. He's had several episodes of Boston Legal where Alan Shore has decried the billions the US has spent on aid to the rest of the world whilst millions of Americans are living in poverty.
Also the conditions the US has demanded in return for monetary favours.

Hmmm... Maybe Kelly is one of Obama's advisers...

Doris, I have a feeling you would even be impressed if he jumped up on a hickory stump, pulled out a golden fiddle and a band of demons joined in. (God bless Charlie Daniels)

As for David E Kelly, fantastic producer and always with a pertinent message, but David E Kelly, Obama is not.

There is a striking discord between his populous rhetoric and the policy he has thus far revealed. Think of Bob Hawke and his ludicrous "no child living in poverty" corker. It's all rubbish.

This is America we are talking about and the military/industrial complex has more power than all the Obamas in the world. Even if his intentions match his rhetoric, which his policies say will not happen, he won't get past the faceless billionaires of said establishment... and I think he is actually playing his hand directly to them while deceive the plebs.

You will be dissappointed and disillusioned in 4 years time... possibly very bloody angry.

Mark my words.

ZzzzDad · 27 July 2008

Re: Barack 2008!

A humorous, and basically spot on commentary on the Messiah from Gerard Baker:

by
Gerard Baker

And it came to pass, in the eighth year of the reign of the evil Bush the Younger (The Ignorant), when the whole land from the Arabian desert to the shores of the Great Lakes had been laid barren, that a Child appeared in the wilderness.

The Child was blessed in looks and intellect. Scion of a simple family, offspring of a miraculous union, grandson of a typical white person and an African peasant. And yea, as he grew, the Child walked in the path of righteousness, with only the occasional detour into the odd weed and a little blow.

(read the rest on the link below)

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/gerard_baker/article4392846.ece

I have a few Democrat friends who have totally surprised me that they are voting for McCain over Obama. These are staunch Democrats, but they don't think Obama is fit to be President with his extreme left wing values, connections (Rev. Wright, et al), and no credentials.

Many on this forum will be surprised when McCain wins fairly easily. Not quite a landslide, but a very healthy margin. This election is for President of the United States after all, not President of the World.

2020hindsight · 27 July 2008

Re: Barack 2008!

The two favourites for VP Candidates , GOP and Dems ...:-

Vintage Romney on McCain's chances against Obama

Prior to looking to the Republican VP position, Romney was fairly pessimistic on McCain's chances against Obama.

CNN - Bayh defends Obama's patriotism

If Obama had had his way, we wouldn't even be facing these problems today in Iraq - Also he's right about withdrawal strategy in Iraq - even Bush is coming around to that point of view.....etc

Doris · 28 July 2008

Re: Barack 2008!

Wayne you are just going to have to stop your negative vibes!

Poor Barack came back exhausted no doubt from eight days visiting Afghanistan, Iraq, Jordan, Israel, the West Bank, Germany, France and Britain to a slur that he didn't include injured soldiers.

Shame Obama! What were you thinking! You visited troops on the ground but not the wounded in Germany!

Could have been worse... McCain could have complained that Obama ate local food.

But you can't really blame McCain as nobody cared when he travelled to the same countries earlier this year.

Obama returns to rocky homecoming after overseas trip

Obama faced accusations of placing photo-ops with world leaders ahead of visiting injured U.S. soldiers.

McCain unleashed a weekend television commercial that derided Obama for not visiting U.S. soldiers at the Landstuhl military hospital... accused Obama of making time "to go to the gym" rather than meet with injured U.S. troops in Germany.

By attempting to portray Obama as aloof to the welfare of American troops, McCain was attempting to undermine Obama's underlying purpose for going abroad: to persuade voters back home that he has what it takes to be their commander-in-chief.

McCain suggested that Obama's international travels were no help to ordinary Americans struggling with a sliding economy.

"With all the breathless coverage from abroad, and with Sen. Obama now addressing his speeches to the people of the world, I'm starting to feel a little left out. Maybe you are too."

But Barack has the knack for not playing spurious side-tracking games.

During a speech Sunday in Chicago, Obama defended foreign policy gains from his trip that he said helped the U.S. re-engage with allies.

"If we can get more support for actions in Afghanistan, those are fewer troops from the United States we need to send," he said.

Obama also told NBC's Meet The Press on Sunday that he would be meeting with top economic advisers on Monday including the noted investor and philanthropist Warren Buffet and Paul Volcker, the former Federal Reserve chairman.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=8f95b7a1-a426-4406-8214-21304f84820d

wayneL · 28 July 2008

Re: Barack 2008!

Jayzuz!!!

Tough gig this Messiah caper!

Doris · 28 July 2008

Re: Barack 2008!

wayneL said:
Jayzuz!!!

Tough gig this Messiah caper!

Too true!

Glad you kept your butterfly still...

IT'S official: God is on Barack Obama's side. How else to explain a global voyage through some of the world's worst trouble spots that went glitch-free and provided oceans of media coverage? TV pictures showed the senator looking commander-in-chief-like in Afghanistan and Iraq, statesmanlike in Israel and Palestine and adored in Europe.

By luck or judgment he arrived in Iraq just as the prime minister, Malaki, agreed that US troops should be out within 16 months, undercutting John McCain's call for a military presence of "100 years".

Then he got to Europe just as a poll showed, for the first time, that a majority of Americans think the Bush presidency has harmed their image abroad and want a future president to repair it. "How did Obama get so lucky with his timing?"

Back home, nothing went right for his rival. John McCain's big speech was to have been on an oil platform in the Gulf of Mexico to argue that increased drilling was important and safe. But the Almighty decreed this was the day Hurricane Dolly tore through the region. Then a supermarket visit on the day Obama spoke in Berlin was undercut when an aide tumbled over a shelf of apple-sauce bottles.

"Why does God love Obama?" cried the TV satirist Jon Stewart, highlighting "the clear juxtaposition between drawing 200,000 people (in Berlin) and an old man nearly buried alive in an apple-sauce avalanche."

http://news.scotsman.com/opinion/Chris-Stephen-How-Obama-dazzled.4329510.jp

Doris · 28 July 2008

Re: Barack 2008!

Wayne, maybe he didn't offend Mohammad?

He rejected allegations that his sharp defense against rumors about his faith has offended Muslims. "If you were a Muslim and somebody consistently said you were a Christian, I suspect that you would want to have that corrected, because that's offensive to your faith," Obama said.

Obama said he was pleased with his trip, though he acknowledged that it does not make him a foreign policy expert.

"I don't think that you ever stop learning," he said. Yet the world leaders he met, Obama said, "feel confident that I know what I'm talking about and what I'm doing" despite his inexperience on the world stage.

Nevertheless, the next president must "make certain that we project ourselves on the world stage with a sense of humility, a sense that we are listening to others," Obama said. America, he added, has been "very clear about our own interests, but not so clear about other people's interests."

And he diffused McCain's slur:

"We can't keep spending $10 billion a month in Iraq at a time when we've got enormous pressing needs here in the United States of America - including, by the way, taking care of veterans who are coming home with post-traumatic stress disorder, disabilities, and they are still not getting a lot of the services that they need," Obama said.

In Chicago he looks like he didn't eat local food whilst away!

http://www.boston.com/news/politics...ays_us_must_reassert_world_leadership/?page=2

Barack Obama!

wayneL

VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!

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