Australian Values

dutchie · 13 September 2006

Kim Beazley is trying to forge a "Pact with Middle Australia" in an attempt to seize John Howard's most successful electoral territory. To this end, he's announced plans to make visitors to Australia sign a statement promising to respect Australian values.

Here's a copy his draft statement about Australian values, courtesy of The Chaser:

1) Respect other cultures if completely assimilated into Australia's own.

2) Respect for other religions as long as they're not fundamentalist (except Christianity).

3) Respect for Australian institutions such as Don Bradman, Phar Lap, Steve Irwin and Peter Brock.

4) Respect Australia's democracy -- unless I have a Senate majority.

5) Respect the equal treatment of women, except when depicted in Ralph, FHM and ZOO. I note note that "equal" does not extend to pay, hiring policies, seats in parliament or adequate childcare facilities.

6) Respect hard work, especially when directed towards avoiding tax.

7) Respect Australia's Laws, and also its Jones and Mitchell.

8) Respect Australia's armed forces no matter where America may deploy them.

9) Respect Australia's parliaments, except the "fun-sized" NT and ACT parliaments which no-one respects.

10) Above all respect Australians' most important value – the value of their mortgage repayments.

Julia · 13 September 2006

That's archetypal Chaser's - very funny.

On a serious note, though, I can't believe that there is a suggestion to actually make visitors - people coming for a holiday - sign some sort of statement of respect for "Australian values". Isn't this a bit over the top?

Julia

Happy · 13 September 2006

Julia said:
That's archetypal Chaser's - very funny.
I can't believe that there is a suggestion to actually make visitors - people coming for a holiday - sign some sort of statement of respect for "Australian values". Isn't this a bit over the top?

Julia

In certain circumstances and current times it looks reasonable.
However hard to imagine somebody unable to lie about their position toward A. Values.

Probably with this document signed, easier to deport somebody who proves not to follow promised behaviour.

rederob · 13 September 2006

dutchie
I heard some tourists being interviewed this morning.
None really had a clue what our values were.
One thought being kind to koalas might be one!
One queried why she would need to sign anything, seeing she was just a tourist and not staying for long.
I can't see why we don't already expect tourists to learn 'strine, wear thongs and shorts, drink beer, go to the footie, get sunburnt and swear a lot.
Can you?

Staybaker · 13 September 2006

rederob said:
dutchie
I heard some tourists being interviewed this morning.
None really had a clue what our values were.

Maybe because we don't either.

One thought being kind to koalas might be one!

Sounds pretty reasonable to me. Probably Steve Irwin would have thought so too.

One queried why she would need to sign anything, seeing she was just a tourist and not staying for long.

Hmmm, a rational, sensible person, eh? Obviously we don't want those types here ...

I can't see why we don't already expect tourists to learn 'strine, wear thongs and shorts, drink beer, go to the footie, get sunburnt and swear a lot.
Can you?

Good point. And no doubt, Australians travelling abroad will have no trouble donning burkhas in the Muslim countries, sporting a beret and carrying a baguette under one arm when they visit France, wearing ten-gallon hats when travelling in Texas, slipping on a yukata when in Japan, ... etc. etc..

The whole concept is more than "a bit over the top", it's ridiculous, laughable, nonsensical, crazy, farcical, ...

Cheers, Staybaker.

YELNATS · 13 September 2006

rederob said:
dutchie
One queried why she would need to sign anything, seeing she was just a tourist and not staying for long.

Surely all tourists should have some idea of the ethos and cultural norms of the country they are visting, and surely they should respect them while they are in that country.

Surely, ignorance is no defence!

Regards YN.

Julia · 13 September 2006

YELNATS said:
Surely all tourists should have some idea of the ethos and cultural norms of the country they are visting, and surely they should respect them while they are in that country.

Surely, ignorance is no defence!

Regards YN.

For heaven's sake, Yelnats, they're on holiday. They shouldn't have to feel obliged to soak up whatever dubious claims we might make to some sort of culture if they're here to lie on the beach for a week!!!

Julia

rederob · 13 September 2006

YELNATS said:
Surely all tourists should have some idea of the ethos and cultural norms of the country they are visting, and surely they should respect them while they are in that country.

Surely, ignorance is no defence!

Regards YN.

There is not much I understand from your post.
I have travelled in the Pacific, Asia and Europe.
I did not have much of an idea of the ethos or cultural norms of the countries I visted, and never felt I needed to.
In fact, my reason for travelling was and remains a willingness to learn more.
Your point about ignorance being no defence means what, exactly?
As a tourist do we need to be armed with full knowledge of every place we travel to?
Are we (or should I be) expected to have a basic grasp of 30 different languages (that's a rough guess of the numberof non-English speaking countries I have visited)?
I would hope tourists are never required to be accountable for their knowledge of countries they intend to visit in order to be allowed to visit.
I also think it's an absolute absidity to ask that of people who come here from markedly different nations/cultures.
If tourists come to Australia to enjoy the experience, why not let them.
They will learn we do lots of things differently depending if we are in north, east, south or western Australia: That we have a different view on "culture" depending where we live: League is the greatest thing since sliced bread, unless you live in Melbourne, Adelaide or Perth: That when you are out bush you talk to everyone you meet, but when you are in the cities you don't talk to anyone you don't know: That your togs, bathers and cossie are one and the same, like your case and port are: And when a farmer can't find his bloody bitch it's not the same as the one talked about by the retail assistant.
Perhaps, Stanley, you can tell us the ethos and cultural norms of Australia/ns that you expect that they (and maybe everyone else in Australia) respect.

Bobby · 13 September 2006

Julia said:
For heaven's sake, Yelnats, they're on holiday. They shouldn't have to feel obliged to soak up whatever dubious claims we might make to some sort of culture if they're here to lie on the beach for a week!!!

Julia

Hello Julia,

What do you think of the fat blokes reasons behind all of this ?
I have a view, but would like yours please ?

Bob.

Julia · 13 September 2006

Bobby said:
Hello Julia,

What do you think of the fat blokes reasons behind all of this ?
I have a view, but would like yours please ?

Bob.

Hi Bob,

Really I have no idea. It is simply silly to me.
What's your hypothesis?

Julia

Bobby · 13 September 2006

Julia said:
Hi Bob,

Really I have no idea. It is simply silly to me.
What's your hypothesis?

Julia

Hey Julia it is silly

My thought is its just a political ploy dreamed up by his advisers to try some sort a mind sink with the public as to mirror Howards stance.
But its so clumsy & will become an embarrassment that will stick with K.B. for ever.

Bob.

dutchie · 13 September 2006

rederob

Yea mate - can't see why those tourists don't learn some of our lingo, appreciate our icons (cossies, thongs, pubs, beer, meat pies (with no meat) at the footie (doesn't matter what code), any sport, BBQ's, roasting people that are up themselves, disrespect of any authority, being able to hug the prime minister while he's on his morning constitution, not hitting the kangaroos and koalas whilst driving along George Street or Collins Street etc etc).

Seriously though I can see this as a trend that will develop as terrorist acts escalate and more and more people try to illegally move to another country. It will be more concentrated on the area of promising to behave in the country and to respect the laws of the land (as someone mentioned previously so that they can be arrested and/or deported more easily if they contravene their promise).

But generally I would think it prudent to have a bit of knowledge of the customs etc of any country you might visit. It could save you embarassment or a stint in jail and would probably make your stay more enjoyable.

Cheers

Dutchie

rederob · 14 September 2006

dutchie said:
But generally I would think it prudent to have a bit of knowledge of the customs etc of any country you might visit. It could save you embarassment or a stint in jail and would probably make your stay more enjoyable.
Cheers
Dutchie

Dutchie
Brave tourists venture abroad without a tour guide, or guide book, or info from embassies, etc; but the majority going to a "strange" land do not.
If you went to the US or UK, how much would you "learn" beforehand?

The recent arrests in London of terrorist suspects were largley "home grown" from what I heard, as were the London underground bombers.
The 911 terrorists spent considerable time in the US and should have been caught, but for some pretty bad intelligence gaps and inter-agency rivalries.

Come to the Gold Coast from June to August and count the number of Arab tourists - escaping from the heat of their homelands. They come here because we continue to treat them quite well. And they are very generous spenders.

So far we can attribute more deaths in Australia to errant overseas motorists that forget their left hand from their right, and plough into oncoming traffic.
As one who spends a lot of time on our roads, I know where the greater fear lies.

Bloveld · 14 September 2006

dutchie said:
rederob

Yea mate - can't see why those tourists don't learn some of our lingo, appreciate our icons (cossies, thongs, pubs, beer, meat pies (with no meat) at the footie (doesn't matter what code), any sport, BBQ's, roasting people that are up themselves, disrespect of any authority, being able to hug the prime minister while he's on his morning constitution, not hitting the kangaroos and koalas whilst driving along George Street or Collins Street etc etc).

Seriously though I can see this as a trend that will develop as terrorist acts escalate and more and more people try to illegally move to another country. It will be more concentrated on the area of promising to behave in the country and to respect the laws of the land (as someone mentioned previously so that they can be arrested and/or deported more easily if they contravene their promise).

But generally I would think it prudent to have a bit of knowledge of the customs etc of any country you might visit. It could save you embarassment or a stint in jail and would probably make your stay more enjoyable.

Cheers

Dutchie

So if someone comes here an commits a few murders, then the cops cant touch them unless they have signed the Aussie Values form?

dutchie · 14 September 2006

G'day Bloveld

Yes, exactly right.

Cheers

Dutchie

dutchie · 14 September 2006

G'day Rederob

I agree most tourists don't bother learning too much about the countries they visit before hand. If visiting the US or Britain I would not worry about learning to much about their customs etc as I know they are similar to Australia's but if I were visiting an Islamic country I would probably do a bit of research (more so if female).

Certainly signing a form as a tourist will not stop a dedicated terrorist but it may help authorities deal better with tourists that do not behave.

Cheers

Dutchie

rederob · 14 September 2006

dutchie said:
Certainly signing a form as a tourist will not stop a dedicated terrorist but it may help authorities deal better with tourists that do not behave.
Cheers
Dutchie

I'll take your word for it, Dutchie.
I thought the law treated us pretty much the same.

On a funnier note, I was talking to a group of SE Asian people today and said they had to the right visa to do be involved in my program. I say they could not have a "tourist" visa, and as sharp as a tack one replied that the government didn't give out "terrrorist" visas anymore!

I shall work harder on my ennunciation in future .

dutchie · 14 September 2006

Rederob

I don't know whether it will make a difference, I just think this is the way the political scene is heading.

Funny situation with the misinterpretation of what is said and what is heard (always a problem even if both people speak the same language fluently!)

Cheers

Dutchie

Happy · 15 September 2006

From ABC, September 15, 2006
Howard's citizenship proposals 'unfair'

The Federal Opposition has criticised a proposal to make migrants wait four years instead of three before becoming eligible for Australian citizenship.
Prime Minister John Howard has outlined plans to toughen citizenship rules, which include making it compulsory for migrants to pass an English language test before becoming Australians.
Mr Howard has told Southern Cross Radio it will not make it any harder for those "fair dinkum" about becoming citizens.
"You'll certainly need to know a good deal more about Australia," he said.
Labor's citizenship spokeswoman, Annette Hurley, says people should be encouraged to take out citizenship sooner rather than later.
"When you take the oath to become an Australian citizen you indicate that Australia is your primary country your principle loyalty lies with Australia," she said.
Ms Hurley says migrants should only wait three years to do that.
The Refugee Council's president, John Gibson, says the changes just add another unnecessary and unjustifiable hurdle for refugees.
"Let's keep in mind that the great majority of people who are refugees who come here do make this commitment to Australia, and they do become citizens," he said.
"Conversely, the great majority of people who live in this country who are not citizens and hold other nationalities, as I understand it, come from English-speaking backgrounds.
"I think once one starts talking about language as the defining component, as the Prime Minister did today of our culture, then we can be on the slippery slide.
"It may not be fashionable but we are still a diverse, multicultural society."

Plans 'unfair'
The Federation of Ethnic Communities Councils says migrants should be encouraged to gain English language skills, but it should not be compulsory.
The federation's chairwoman, Voula Messimeri, says the plans are unfair.
She says her parents, who came to Australia in the 1970s, are a good example.
"They spoke very little English," she said.
"They became Australian citizens and quite rightly so, and they have contributed enormously.
"They're proud Australians from a Greek background but they're proud Australians nonetheless.
"They would have been excluded and I think my mother still to this day would not be able to pass an Australian citizens test in English."
The proposal has prompted both the Federation of Ethnic Communities Councils and the Refugee Council to call for more Government funding for English classes.

Refugee is not somebody who wants to be in Australia, foremost it is somebody who doesn’t want to be in previous country.

We are generous to accept anybody, but as we seen, there is lack of integration, people just come here to build extension of their previous country and this is not exactly what we would like to see.

rederob · 15 September 2006

Happy said:
Refugee is not somebody who wants to be in Australia, foremost it is somebody who doesn’t want to be in previous country.

We are generous to accept anybody, but as we seen, there is lack of integration, people just come here to build extension of their previous country and this is not exactly what we would like to see.

Australia ranks at about 30 in terms of nations accepting refugees.
I'm not sure that makes us particularly generous given our general wealth, labour demand, and underpopulated nation.
It is also a bit mischievous to suggest "refugees" are not necessarily people who want to come to Australia. A large proportion of "refugees" do not (or did not) have an opportunity to apply to come to Australia simply because we have no representation (embassies/consulates) there and their only avenue was illegal entry.
I know many older "Australians" that migrated here a very long time ago who would not be able to pass Howards new "test". Perhaps we should send them back, along with anyone else that fails English, although my mum would probably be arrested if that happened!

Australian Values

dutchie

Julia

In Memoriam

Happy

rederob

Staybaker

YELNATS

Non illegitimus carborundum

Julia

In Memoriam

rederob

Bobby

Julia

In Memoriam

Bobby

dutchie

rederob

Bloveld

dutchie

dutchie

rederob

dutchie

Happy

rederob

Australian Values

In Memoriam

Non illegitimus carborundum

In Memoriam

In Memoriam

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency