Aussies Withdraw From Iraq

[2020hindsight]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/06/02/2262130.htm

Iraq troop withdrawal not surprising: Nelson
Posted 2 hours 11 minutes ago
Updated 1 hour 33 minutes ago

Federal Opposition Leader Brendan Nelson is not surprised the Federal Government has chosen this time to pull Australia's combat troops out of Iraq.

Dr Nelson says the conditions are such that the battle groups certainly can now be brought home, but the Coalition would have liked to have seen a continuing presence of trainers to further increase the rate at which Iraqis are trained.

This one from last year
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/07/05/1970982.htm

Govt splits on Iraq war oil link
Posted Thu Jul 5, 2007 4:44pm AEST
Updated Fri Jul 6, 2007 5:41am AEST

Prime Minister John Howard has moved to hose down Defence Minister Brendan Nelson's earlier revelation that Australian troops are remaining in Iraq partially because of concerns over global oil supplies.

Speaking this morning, Dr Nelson said oil was among the reasons to keep troops in Iraq.... etc

Maybe Nelson reckons we no longer need oil because of his 5c per litre discount (?)

 

[juw177]

The US alliance wants to train up a western friendly government that is strong enough to oppress their own people but not strong enough to suppress western interests (oil).

The job isn't finished as Bush points out.

 

[disarray]

yeah pretty much juw. i saw a doco about some national guard serving multiple tours in iraq and all the do day after day is escort convoys of tankers, protecting the lifeblood of the west. because of corporate greed, governmental short-sightedness and popular apathy we are unwilling to put in the required massive investment in alternative energy sources and usable public transport systems.

the next-gen tech hasn't arrived yet but there is plenty of peripheral technology that can be implemented now to reduce our need on oil, especially with regards to transport. unfortunately for america their political system has been purchased by the corporations through lobbyists so don't expect much change from the top-down over there. they are there to stay.

 

[numbercruncher]

And calls to have the ex PM charged .....

Doctors want Howard in court over Iraq

Former prime minister John Howard could face the International Criminal Court for sending Australian troops to Iraq, under a plan backed by a doctor's group.

Some 550 Australian troops based in southern Iraq have formally ended their mission and begun preparations for withdrawal.

The professional not-for-profit organisation claims on its website to promote peace and disarmament and wants Mr Howard to face court action.

"Mr Howard committed Australian troops to the illegal non-UN approved war in Iraq on the basis of misleading information about WMD (weapons of mass destruction)," association spokesman Dr Robert Marr said in a statement.

"As a result of the illegal war in Iraq, over 650,000 Iraqi citizens have died unnecessarily.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/080602/2/173pg.html

 

[arminius]

whats happened to you dissarray? i remember talking politics with you last year and from memory you were all for the invasion and howard/bush policy.
i trust this is the same person...

 

[disarray]

well removing a madman, shoring up regional stability and assuring energy supplies were reasonable goals to aspire to, unfortunately the policy was badly flawed.

the US is mired in a situation that is difficult to extract itself from. it wants to secure its oil supply and so it needs stability so everyone can get back to work, but there are numerous fronts all pushing back. countries like iran are arming insurgents while various tribal and religious leaders struggle for their own piece of the pie.

much of the troubles they face could have been averted with proper policy and planning but the whole civilian management aspect of the campaign was mismanaged from the get-go so they have to deal with their mistakes such as disbanding the army, not paying attention to tribal social structures, and ignoring civilian needs over corporation needs (letting the museums get looted was a pretty poor effort).

as usual the US military performs extremely well so there is a positive outcome in that Al-Qaeda and hordes of other muslim extremists have been pouring into iraq to take a shot at the great satan, and have been getting their asses handed to them. the fanatics ranks and leadership are greatly thinned as a result of the conflict which isn't a bad thing.

other forces in iraq such as the australians and british had a lot more success with the hearts and minds game, working with leaders, building wells and schools, waving to the kiddies and so on, and the regions they manage are relatively stable so bringing them home isn't so much an issue. the americans on the other hand have far more at stake and, with corporation pressure, will remain in for the long haul.

 

[adamim1]

The Australians are in a less violent area for one. We only have a fraction of the troops the americans do. No one would notice we pulled out.

I am assuming that it is only the combat troops pulling out. There will probably be a few there rebuilding - i hope the pull out does not affect the safety of the troops rebuilding.

 

[Whiskers]

I am assuming that it is only the combat troops pulling out. There will probably be a few there rebuilding - i hope the pull out does not affect the safety of the troops rebuilding.

It's all a bit of a misnomer headline.

Not sure of exact numbers, but I think we are pulling out a few hundred.

If you count embassy security and naval blockade crews, I think we still have close to 1,000 serving there.

 

[DB008]

So, what happened to the WMD's that the BUSH Gov was talking about. One of the biggest cons ever pulled off.

 

[disarray]

they got shipped to syria after gulf war 1 and are probably still there

 

[juw177]

countries like iran are arming insurgents

That myth was debunked 2 months back.

as usual the US military performs extremely well so there is a positive outcome in that Al-Qaeda and hordes of other muslim extremists have been pouring into iraq to take a shot at the great satan, and have been getting their asses handed to them. the fanatics ranks and leadership are greatly thinned as a result of the conflict which isn't a bad thing.

other forces in iraq such as the australians and british had a lot more success with the hearts and minds game, working with leaders, building wells and schools, waving to the kiddies and so on, and the regions they manage are relatively stable so bringing them home isn't so much an issue. the americans on the other hand have far more at stake and, with corporation pressure, will remain in for the long haul.

Just remember that this aspect is something we know nothing about aside from the propaganda that is handed down to us by the US government.

And also, do not overlook American imperialism which the Aussies and Brits do not understand. The Israel / US alliance will do anything to crush resistance in the middle east such as Iran and Hezbollah. Parallel to their extremest capitalism at home, Americans set up green zones for the privileged (this is the so called stability you are referring to) and have little regard for the lives of the people outside.

 

[disarray]

That myth was debunked 2 months back.

no it wasn't

Just remember that this aspect is something we know nothing about aside from the propaganda that is handed down to us by the US government.

actually a lot of it is coming from arabic pro-terrorist websites which are busy rationalising why they are getting slaughtered.

And also, do not overlook American imperialism which the Aussies and Brits do not understand.

lol you don't know much about the british empire do you?

The Israel / US alliance will do anything to crush resistance in the middle east such as Iran and Hezbollah.

and iran and hezbollah will do anything to crush israel. bit of a feedback loop going on here hey?

Parallel to their extremest capitalism at home, Americans set up green zones for the privileged (this is the so called stability you are referring to) and have little regard for the lives of the people outside.

it definately seems to be the way they are going, but its not quite that dire within the US yet.

 

[juw177]

disarray, I was referring to the fact that they have found no proof of Iran arming the rebels in Iraq. They were meant to come out with a big PR campaign recently by showing the world all the Iranian weapons found in Iraq, but they failed:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2008/05/iraq-the-elusiv.html

--I don't know of any pro-terrorist websites claiming they are getting slaughtered by US troops. Can you show me?

--Yes it is true the British and French had their days but that is not the present.

--No you are wrong, Iran and Hezbollah are not actively doing anything to crush Israel. No terrorism comes close to what Israel has done to the Palestinians.

--And as for the comment about US not caring about the unprivileged that live outside the green zone, a good examples are hurricane Katrina, and of course, the current handling of the credit crisis.

 

[disarray]

disarray, I was referring to the fact that they have found no proof of Iran arming the rebels in Iraq. They were meant to come out with a big PR campaign recently by showing the world all the Iranian weapons found in Iraq, but they failed

botching a single PR campaign doesn't mean iran isn't sending military and financial aid to the insurgency. a big PR campaign by tibetans accusing china of committing cultural genocide and mass murder doesn't necessarily make it true does it? instead of jumping on every single event as definitive proof of something being true or untrue, especially in a highly politicised and propagandised environment, take a step back and look at the broader picture.

the current iranian leadership has great interest in keeping iraq destabilised and it hates america with a passion. let's start from there.

I don't know of any pro-terrorist websites claiming they are getting slaughtered by US troops. Can you show me?

google "al-quada losses"

Yes it is true the British and French had their days but that is not the present

no its not the present but the british, having owned the largest empire in human history, understand a thing or two about imperialism. it is precisely this understanding that makes them more effective in peacekeeping roles as they understand the importance of maintaining local power structures and respecting social customs, unlike the americans who have a tendency to come blazing in all gung-ho.

No you are wrong, Iran and Hezbollah are not actively doing anything to crush Israel.

ummmm i don't think so. hezbollah consistently launches attacks against israeli territory and iran keeps calling for the (preferably nuclear) annihilation of the israeli state.

No terrorism comes close to what Israel has done to the Palestinians.

i think you've got a bit of a blinkered view here juw. you a member of the socialist alliance or something?

And as for the comment about US not caring about the unprivileged that live outside the green zone, a good examples are hurricane Katrina, and of course, the current handling of the credit crisis.

not much argument from me here, but i think there is a racial aspect to this policy as well - a large section of the population down katrina affected way is black and white people really don't care that much about black people.

if it came to the point that white middle america was seriously hurting (as in losing weight, can't afford the latest gadgets and have to sell the SUV) then we'd probably see change, but life is still pretty good for middle america so there is not much impetus for change. yet.

 

[juw177]

botching a single PR campaign doesn't mean iran isn't sending military and financial aid to the insurgency.

It is impossible to prove Iran is not sending military aid, but it is easy to prove if they are sending military aid. And they have not proved it. Same with the alleged nuclear arms program. Where have I heard this before?

google "al-quada losses"

I can't conclude anything from a list of names released by the US claiming they are winning the war. Same if Al-Qaeda release a list of US targets they have blown up.

the current iranian leadership has great interest in keeping iraq destabilised and it hates america with a passion. let's start from there.

I wonder why they might have an interest in Iraq? Could it have anything to do with your neighbour being invaded and military bases being built next door? I mean Iran does not go building military bases in Cuba.

hezbollah consistently launches attacks against israeli territory and iran keeps calling for the (preferably nuclear) annihilation of the israeli state.

That is downright false Washington war mongering BS. Israel has always been the aggressor in the middle east and it is horrible that by the UN and Washington, the Arab countries being threatened have no right to resist. If you are talking about the war last year, it was Israel invading Lebanon and Hezbollah resisting. Not the other way around.

 

[disarray]

fair enough, your opinion. i think we both know where we stand

 

[2020hindsight]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/06/14/2274612.htm?section=justin

Talks stalled on Iraq-US security deal
Posted 4 hours 21 minutes ago

Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki says talks his government is having with the United States on a long-term security pact have reached a dead end.

Officials are trying to reach a deal which would give US forces a legal basis to remain in Iraq.

The UN mandate which permits American forces to be in Iraq expires at the end of the year, so the Americans are trying to negotiate a new status of forces agreement with the Iraqis.

The problem is that the Iraqi Government regards many of the American demands as infringements of Iraqi sovereignty.

The Americans want to maintain military bases and, it has been reported, to keep control of Iraqi air space.

They also want immunity from prosecution for their own forces and for American contractors, a proposal which Mr Maliki says Iraq rejects totally.

- BBC

Anyone remember the domino theory
but in reverse maybe ?

 

[2020hindsight]

yesss !!!!
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/06/22/2282089.htm

Final combat troops arrive home from Iraq
Posted 4 hours 59 minutes ago
Updated 4 hours 53 minutes ago

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has today seen the completion of his pledge to bring home all of Australia's combat troops from Iraq, with the final contingent of soldiers flying into Brisbane.

Families and friends waited nervously at Brisbane airport for the first glimpse of loved ones they had not seen for more than six months.

Hugs and tears greeted the 80 members of the Seventh Brigade after their plane touched down at 3:00pm (local time).

They are the last soldiers from the Overwatch Battle Group to return home from southern Iraq and their Commander, Brigadier Steven Day, says they accomplished their mission.

"There is a deep sense of pride in what they have done. They have toiled hard for the last six or seven months and southern Iraq is a better place for what they have done," he said.

The men will take part in a welcome home parade through Brisbane next Saturday.