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Answers to Islamic Apologism

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4. Frequently Asked Questions

There are a handful of questions that invariably arise when the point is made that Islam is violent. These questions for the most part are misleading or irrelevant and do not contest the actual evidence or arguments that violence is inherent to Islam. Nonetheless, they have proven rhetorically effective in deflecting serious scrutiny from Islam, and so I deal with some of them here.

a. What about the Crusades?

The obvious response to this question is, "Well, what about them?" Violence committed in the name of other religions is logically unconnected to the question of whether Islam is violent. But, by mentioning the Crusades, the hope of the Islamic apologist is to draw attention away from Islamic violence and paint religions in general as morally equivalent.

In both the Western academia and media as well as in the Islamic world, the Crusades are viewed as wars of aggression fought by bloody-minded Christians against peaceful Muslims. While the Crusades were certainly bloody, they are more accurately understood as a belated Western response to centuries of jihad than as an unprovoked, unilateral attack. Muslim rule in the Holy Land began in the second half of the 7th century during the Arab wave of jihad with the conquests of Damascus and Jerusalem by the second "rightly-guided Caliph," Umar. After the initial bloody jihad, Christian and Jewish life there was tolerated within the strictures of the dhimma and the Muslim Arabs generally permitted Christians abroad to continue to make pilgrimage to their holy sites, a practice which proved lucrative for the Muslim state. In the 11th century, the relatively benign Arab administration of the Holy Land was replaced with that of Seljuk Turks, due to civil war in the Islamic Empire. Throughout the latter half of the 11th century, the Turks waged war against the Christian Byzantine Empire and pushed it back from its strongholds in Antioch and Anatolia (now Turkey). In 1071, Byzantine forces suffered a crushing defeat at the Battle of Manzikert in what is now Eastern Turkey. The Turks resumed the jihad in the Holy Land, abusing, robbing, enslaving, and killing Christians there and throughout Asia Minor. They threatened to cut off Christendom from its holiest site, the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem, rebuilt under Byzantine stewardship after it was destroyed by Caliph Al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah in 1009.

It was in this context of a renewed jihad in the Middle East that the Roman Pope, Urban II, issued a call in 1095 for Western Christians to come to the aid of their Eastern cousins (and seems to have harbored the hope of claiming Jerusalem for the Papacy after the Great Schism with Eastern Christianity in 1054). This "armed pilgrimage," in which numerous civilians as well as soldiers took part, would eventually become known years later as the First Crusade. The idea of a "crusade" as we now understand that term, i.e., a Christian "holy war," developed years later with the rise of such organizations as the Knights Templar that made "crusading" a way of life. It worth noting that the most ardent Crusaders, the Franks, were exactly those who had faced jihad and razzias for centuries along the Franco-Spanish border and knew better than most the horrors to which Muslims subjected Christians. At the time of the First Crusade, the populations of Asia Minor, Syria, and Palestine, though ruled by Muslims, were still overwhelmingly Christian. The "Crusading" campaigns of the Western Christian armies were justified at the time as a war liberating the Eastern Christians, whose population, lands, and culture had been devastated by centuries of jihad and dhimmitude. Conquering territory for God in the mode of jihad was an alien idea to Christianity and it should not be surprising that it eventually died out in the West and never gained ascendancy in the East.

Following the very bloody capture of Jerusalem in 1099 by the Latin armies and the establishment of the Crusader States in Edessa, Antioch, and Jerusalem, the Muslim and Christian forces fought a see-saw series of wars, in which both parties were guilty of the usual gamut of wartime immorality. Over time, even with reinforcing Crusades waged from Europe, the Crusader States, strung out on precarious lines of communication, slowly succumbed to superior Muslim power. In 1271, the last Christian citadel, Antioch, fell to the Muslims. No longer having to divert forces to subdue the Christian beachhead on the Eastern Mediterranean, the Muslims regrouped for a 400-year-long jihad against Southern and Eastern Europe, which twice reached as far as Vienna before it was halted. In geostrategic terms, the Crusades can be viewed as an attempt by the West to forestall its own destruction at the hands of Islamic jihad by carrying the fight to the enemy. It worked for a while.

Significantly, while the West has for some time now lamented the Crusades as mistaken, there has never been any mention from any serious Islamic authority of regret for the centuries and centuries of jihad and dhimmitude perpetrated against other societies. But this is hardly surprising: while religious violence contradicts the fundamentals of Christianity, religious violence is written into Islam's DNA.

b. If Islam is violent, why are so many Muslims peaceful?

This question is a bit like asking, "If Christianity teaches humility, tolerance, and forgiveness, why are so many Christians arrogant, intolerant, and vindictive?" The answer in both cases is obvious: in any religion or ideology there will be many who profess, but do not practice, its tenets. Just as it is often easier for a Christian to hit back, play holier-than-thou, or disdain others, so it is often easier for a Muslim to stay at home rather than embark on jihad. Hypocrites are everywhere.

Furthermore, there are also people who do not really understand their own faith and so act outside of its prescribed boundaries. In Islam, there are likely many Muslims who do not really understand their religion thanks to the importance of reciting the Quran in Arabic but not having to understand it. It is the words and sounds of the Quran that attract Allah's merciful attention rather than Quranic knowledge on the part of the supplicant. Especially in the West, Muslims here are more likely to be attracted by Western ways (which explains why they are here) and less likely to act violently against the society to which they may have fled from an Islamic tyranny abroad.

However, in any given social context, as Islam takes greater root -- increasing numbers of followers, the construction of more mosques and "cultural centers," etc. -- the greater the likelihood that some number of its adherents will take its violent precepts seriously. This is the problem that the West faces today.

c. What about the violent passages in the Bible?


First, violent Biblical passages are irrelevant to the question of whether Islam is violent.

Second, the violent passages in the Bible certainly do no amount to a standing order to commit violence against the rest of the world. Unlike the Quran, the Bible is a huge collection of documents written by different people at different times in different contexts, which allows for much greater interpretative freedom. The Quran, on the other hand, comes exclusively from one source: Muhammad. It is through the life of Muhammad that the Quran must be understood, as the Quran itself says. His wars and killings both reflect and inform the meaning of the Quran. Furthermore, the strict literalism of the Quran means that there is no room for interpretation when it comes to its violent injunctions. As it is through the example of Christ, the "Prince of Peace," that Christianity interprets its scriptures, so it is through the example of the warlord and despot Muhammad that Muslims understand the Quran.
 
d. Could an Islamic "Reformation" pacify Islam?

As should be plain to anyone who has examined the Islamic sources, to take the violence out of Islam would require it to jettison two things: the Quran as the word of Allah and Muhammad as Allah's prophet. In other words, to pacify Islam would require its transformation into something that it is not. The Western Christian Reformation, that is often used as an example, was an attempt (successful or not) to recover the essence of Christianity, namely, the example and teachings of Christ and the Apostles. Trying to get back to the example of Muhammad would have very different consequences. Indeed, one may say that Islam is today going through its "Reformation" with the increasing jihadist activity around the globe. Today, Muslims of the Salafi ("early generations") school are doing exactly that in focusing on the life of Muhammad and his early successors. These reformers are known to their detractors by the derogative term Wahhabi. Drawing their inspiration from Muhammad and the Quran, they are invariably disposed to violence. The unhappy fact is that Islam today is what it has been fourteen centuries: violent, intolerant, and expansionary. It is folly to think that we, in the course of a few years or decades, are going to be able to change the basic world outlook of a foreign civilization. Islam's violent nature must be accepted as given; only then will we be able to come up with appropriate policy responses that can improve our chances of survival.

e. What about the history of Western colonialism in the Islamic world?

Following the defeat of the Ottoman army outside Vienna on September 11, 1683 by Polish forces, Islam went into a period of strategic decline in which it was overwhelmingly dominated by the European powers. Much of dar al-Islam was colonized by the European powers who employed their superior technology and exploited the rivalries within the Muslim world to establish colonial rule.

While many of the practices of the Western imperial powers in the governance of their colonies were clearly unjust, it is utterly unwarranted to regard Western imperialism -- as it often is -- as an endemic criminal enterprise that is the basis of modern resentment against the West. It was only due to the assertive role of the Western powers that modern nation-states such as India, Pakistan, Israel, South Africa, Zimbabwe, etc. came to exist in the first place. Without Western organization, these areas would have likely remained chaotic and tribal as they had existed for centuries.

When one looks at the post-colonial world, it is apparent that the most successful post-colonial nations have a common attribute: they are not Muslim. The United States, Australia, Hong Kong, Israel, India, and the South American nations clearly outshine their Muslim-majority post-colonial counterparts -- Iraq, Algeria, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, etc. -- by just about any standard.

f. How can a violent political ideology be the second-largest and fastest-growing religion on earth?

It should not be surprising that a violent political ideology is proving so attractive to much of the world. The attractive power of fascist ideas has been proven through history. Islam combines the interior comfort provided by religious faith with the outward power of a world-transforming political ideology. Like the revolutionary violence of Communism, jihad offers an altruistic justification for waging death and destruction. Such an ideology will naturally draw to it violent-minded people while encouraging the non-violent to take up arms themselves or support violence indirectly. Because something is popular hardly makes it benign.

Furthermore, the areas in which Islam is growing most rapidly, such as Western Europe, have been largely denuded of their religious and cultural heritage, which leaves Islam as the only vibrant ideology available to those in search of meaning.

g. Is it fair to paint all Islamic schools of thought as violent?

Islamic apologists often point out that Islam is not a monolith and that there are differences of opinion among the different Islamic schools of thought. That is true, but, while there are differences, there are also common elements. Just as Orthodox, Roman Catholic, and Protestant Christians differ on many aspects of Christianity, still they accept important common elements. So it is with Islam. One of the common elements to all Islamic schools of thought is jihad, understood as the obligation of the Ummah to conquer and subdue the world in the name of Allah and rule it under Sharia law. The four Sunni Madhhabs (schools of fiqh [Islamic religious jurisprudence]) -- Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i, and Hanbali -- all agree that there is a collective obligation on Muslims to make war on the rest of the world. Furthermore, even the schools of thought outside Sunni orthodoxy, including Sufism and the Jafari (Shia) school, agree on the necessity of jihad. When it comes to matters of jihad, the different schools disagree on such questions as whether infidels must first be asked to convert to Islam before hostilities may begin (Osama bin Laden asked America to convert before Al-Qaeda's attacks); how plunder should be distributed among victorious jihadists; whether a long-term Fabian strategy against dar al-harb is preferable to an all-out frontal attack; etc.

h. What about the great achievements of Islamic civilization through history?


Islamic achievements in the fields of art, literature, science, medicine, etc. in no way refute the fact that Islam is intrinsically violent. Roman and Greek civilizations produced many great achievements in these fields as well, but also cultivated powerful traditions of violence. While giving the world the brilliance of Virgil and Horace, Rome was also a home to gladiatorial combat, the slaughter of Christians, and, at times, rampant militarism.

Furthermore, the achievements of Islamic civilization are pretty modest given its 1300 year history when compared to Western, Hindu, or Confucian civilizations. Many Islamic achievements were in fact the result of non-Muslims living within the Islamic Empire or of recent converts to Islam. One of the greatest Islamic thinkers, Averroes, ran afoul of Islamic orthodoxy through his study of non-Islamic (Greek) philosophy and his preference for Western modes of thought. Once the dhimmi populations of the Empire dwindled toward the middle of the second millennium AD, Islam began its social and cultural "decline."
 
5. Glossary of Terms

Allah: "God"; Arabic Christians also worship "Allah," but an Allah of a very different sort.

Allahu Akhbar: "God is Great (-est)"; term of praise; war cry of Muslims.

AH: "after Hijra"; the Islamic calendar?s system of dating; employs lunar rather than solar years; as of January 2007, we are in AH 1428.

Ansar: "aiders" or "helpers"; Arabian tribesmen allied with Muhammad and the early Muslims.

Badr: first significant battle fought by Muhammad and the Muslims against the Quraish tribe of Mecca.

Caliph: title of the ruler or leader of the Umma (global Muslim community); the head of the former Islamic Empire; the title was abolished by Kemal Attaturk in 1924 following the breakup of the Ottoman Empire and the founding of modern Turkey.

dar al-Islam: "House (Realm) of Islam"; Islamic territory ruled by Sharia law

dar al-harb: "House (Realm) of War": territory ruled by infidels

dar al-sulh: "House (Realm) of Truce": territory ruled by infidels but allied with Islam; territory ruled by Muslims but not under Sharia law

Dhimma: the pact of protection extended to non-slave "People of the Book", usually Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians, which permitted them to remain nominally free under Muslim rule.

dhimmi: "protected"; people under the protection of the dhimma.

dhimmitude: word coined by historian Bat Ye'or to describe the status of dhimmi peoples

hadith: "report"; any of thousands of episodes from the life of Muhammad transmitted orally until written down in the eighth century AD; sahih (reliable or sound) hadiths are second only to the Quran in authority.

Hijra: "emigration"; Muhammad's flight from Mecca to Medina (Yathrib) in AD 622.

Islam: "submission" or "surrender."

jizya: the poll or head tax prescribed by Sura 9:29 of the Quran to be paid by Christians and Jews in Muslim-held territory.

Kaba: "cube"; the Meccan temple in which numerous pagan idols were housed before Muhammad's conquest of Mecca in AD 632, which is still the most venerated object in Islam; the Kaba's cornerstone, which is believed to have fallen from heaven, is the stone on which Abraham was to sacrifice his son, Ishmael (not Isaac).

Mecca: holiest city of Islam; place of Muhammad's birth in AD 570; its Great Mosque contains the Kaba stone; early period in Muhammad's life where more peaceful verses of the Quran were revealed; site of Muhammad's victory over the Quraish in AD 630.

Medina: "city," short for "city of the Prophet"; second holiest city of Islam; destination of Muhammad's Hijra (emigration) in AD 622; later period in Muhammad's life where more violent verses of the Quran were revealed; site of third major battle fought by Muhammad against the Quraish tribe from Mecca; formerly called Yathrib.

Muhammad: "the praised one."

Muslim: one who submits.

Quran (Kuran, Quran, etc.): "recitation"; according to Islam, the compiled verbatim words of Allah as dictated by Muhammad.

razzia: "raid"; acts of piracy on land or sea by Muslims against infidels

Sira: "life"; abbreviation of Sirat Rasul Allah, or "Life of the Prophet of God"; the canonical biography of the Prophet Muhammad written in the eighth century by Ibn Ishaq and later edited by Ibn Hisham; modern translation by Alfred Guillaume.

Sunnah: the "Way" of the Prophet Muhammad; includes his teachings, traditions, and example.

Sura: a chapter of the Quran; Quranic passages are cited as Sura number:verse number, e.g., 9:5.

Uhud: second major battle fought by Muhammad against the Quraish tribe of Mecca.

Umar: second "rightly-guided" Caliph; ruled AD 634--44, succeeded Abu Bakr; conquered the Holy Land.

Umma (ummah): the global Muslim community; the body of Muslim faithful.

Uthman: third "rightly-guided" Caliph; ruled AD 644--56, succeeded Umar; compiled the Quran in book form.

Yathrib: city to which Muhammad made the Hijra (emigration) in AD 622/AH 1; renamed Medina.

6. Further Resources

Online

Center for the Study of Political Islam

Chronicles Magazine

Dhimmi.org

FaithFreedom.org

HistoryofJihad.com

U Michigan's searchable online version of the Quran translated by Shakir.

USC's Muslim Students Association's website with multiple searchable translations of the Quran and hadiths.

Islam: What the West Needs to Know homepage.

Canadian Muslim website with various writings on Islamic doctrine and events in the Muslim world.


Also see Jihad Watch Recommended Books.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/islam101/
 
ok calanen, i'll bite.

why do muslims stone women whom have been raped to death, and let the rapists free?

why do muslims encourage children to be suicide bombers? why dont their male 'encouragers' step up?
 
"Religion is the universal neurosis" - Freud

"Religion is a flight from reality" - Mencken

As far as neuroses go, Islam is right up there at the front of the queue.
Any religion that subjugates women is an abomination.
 
I think I'll leave this one alone........
 
ok calanen, i'll bite.

why do muslims stone women whom have been raped to death, and let the rapists free?

why do muslims encourage children to be suicide bombers? why dont their male 'encouragers' step up?

There are two parts to your question.

The first occurs because in sharia, women are inherently second class and considered inferior to men. Islamic societies are patriachal, and women are kept in their place through the fear of overwhelming violence. In this context it is far more likely that the rights of women will be violated, including raped.

The next is as to the judicial process itself. To prove rape under sharia, the woman must have 4 male witnesses to the act itself, which is in effect, impossible. If she makes the allegation of rape or attempted rape, and then there are no four male witnesses to the Act, she is considered to have made a false accusation of rape and is flogged for it - that is, if it was an attempt. There is also the aspect that the woman, by complaing about rape, is being 'uppity' and needs to be put back in her place. Alternatively, she is stoned to death for having sexual relations outside of marriage, because that is impermissible.

It should be stated however, that this is only under sharia systems, not in all places where there are muslims - Turkey for example has a secular justice system and can punish rape severely withouth the 4 male witnesses bs.

As to suicide bombers, this is more complex. The concept of the dar al harb and the dar al Islam means that it is the absolute goal of every muslim, the whole islamic community to crush that which is not allah's perfect system of government, sharia. Islam is an advanced system of gearing an entire community for war. The children, the women, every one plays their part - there is one goal - to destroy all systems of government that are an abomination in the eyes of allah - such as our own good selves. Often they may disagree on the methods, whether the full frontal assault in terms of the fighting jihad, or the softly softly approach in terms of the stealth jihad - but no one disagrees with the goal.

We must be destroyed, and it is Islam's mission to destroy us. So, 'all's fair' including children being suicide bombers. According to some. It is a bit hard to find specific references in Islam to suicide bombers, but the standing order to 'Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them,' tends to suggest some room for creativity in the method you may employ.
 
calanen...are you muslim?

what is the purpose of this thread?

you seem cleverly anti-muslim.

Islamic societies are patriachal, and women are kept in their place through the fear of overwhelming violence.

a ridiculous generalisation.....

We must be destroyed, and it is Islam's mission to destroy us.

i havent seen a muslim nation invade someone for a long time. invasion to convert a populace to islam...even longer. seems to me its christianity, not islam that does the invading 'for their own good..'.

Islam is an advanced system of gearing an entire community for war.

in the context of ALL the theatres of war, where muslims are involved, they are 'defenders'.......so the french resitance were muslims??

i suggest to all here who read this, that the great majority of muslims are hard working, religious, polite, family orientated people, and would treat you with the utmost respect if you met them. even though indonesia has been enslaved, afghanistan and iraq have been bombed into the stone age, iran has been demonised, the saudi gov are corrupt puppets, palestinians are brutalised, etc, etc...

how could any of the above be allowed to take place, if public opinion wasnt engineered to demonise muslims?



.
 
i suggest to all here who read this, that the great majority of muslims are hard working, religious, polite, family orientated people, and would treat you with the utmost respect if you met them. even though indonesia has been enslaved, afghanistan and iraq have been bombed into the stone age, iran has been demonised, the saudi gov are corrupt puppets, palestinians are brutalised, etc, etc...

Islam invades from within, not from without. Islam typically sends advance parties within the dar al harb to weaken it from within, before striking. No Islamic country today is strong enough to invade in conventional warfare (that I can think of), however, all are strong enough to send advance parties into the dar al harb, or house of war, the land of the infidel to chip away through the stealth jihad. As is implicitly set out in the strategic manual of the Muslim Brotherhood for the USA, with a large number of Islamic societies signing on for the program. This was produced in 1991, and was seized from the home of a Muslim Brotherhood member.



The entire document can be seen here, both in Arabic and in English:

http://www.nefafoundation.org/miscellaneous/FeaturedDocs/ExplMemoGenStratGoal-trial2.pdf

Remember that this is a muslim brotherhood document, it is not produced by 'Islamophobes.'

The same hardworking and friendly people, will more than likely join in to kill the infidels around them if a jihad is declared, once there are sufficient numbers and the mosque speakers blare the call to jihad. It is unlikely they will side with the infidels to protect them from the installation of sharia.

Also as a Muslim Brotherhood member told the captivated audience in 1993 at their summit, all war is deception:

http://nefafoundation.org/miscellaneous/HLF/93Philly_9.pdf

Turning his attention back to the possibility of forming new organizations, Ahmad points out that "we don't really have available people whom we could dedicate for the work we want to hide."

After discussion about whether the organizations "should drop our Islamic identity or keep it," Shukri Abu Baker tells his colleagues, "War is deception. Deceive, camouflage. Pretend that you're leaving while you're walking that way...Deceive your enemy." Omar Ahmad chimes in, "This is like one who plays basketball; he makes a player believe that he is doing this while he does something else...I agree with you. Like they say, politics is a completion of war."

What individual muslims might do or live their lives doing, does not at all derogate from what Islam the philosophy is and says. I hope there are muslims who disavow the philosophy of jihad and violence publicly, but what is more apparent is muslims being angry that people notice the problem - not denouncing it or repudiating the call to jihad.

Islam is a political system of conquest that is devoted to the destruction of all forms of government that are not sharia, as its solemn duty.

The entire world is divided into the dar al Islam, and the dar al harb. Wherever there is no sharia, this is the dar al harb or house of war - where we live habibi. As Majih Khadduri states in War and Peace in the Law of Islam:

"Thus the jihad may be regarded as Islam's instrument for carrying out its ultimate objective by turning all people into believers, if not in the prophethood of Mohammed (as in the case of the dhimmis), as least in the belief in God. The Prophet Mohammed is reported to have declared "some of my people will continue to fight victoriously for the sake of the truth until the last of them will combat the anti-christ.' Until that moment is reached the jihad, in one form or another, will remain as a permanent obligation upon the entire Muslim community. It follows that the existence of the dar al harb is ultimately outlawed under the Islamic jural order that the dar al Islam is permanently under jihad obligation until the dar al harb is reduced to non-existence; and that any community which prefers to remain non-islamic - in the status of a tolerated community accepting certain disabilities - must submit to Islamic reule and reside in the dar al Islam or be bound as clients to the Muslim community. The universalism of Islam, in its all embracing creed, is imposed on the believers as a continuous process of warfare, psychological and political if not strictly military.'

This is what Islam is, and what Islam believes. And it is important that the infidels and dhimmis wake up and realise this, before it is too late.
 
"Religion is the universal neurosis" - Freud

"Religion is a flight from reality" - Mencken

As far as neuroses go, Islam is right up there at the front of the queue.
Any religion that subjugates women is an abomination.

Religion is the neurosis of the weak & unthinking , a form of reasoning turning truth into filth ..
Religion has allowed powerful organizations to control the minds of humans for thousands of years .

Every time I meet a god follower I cringe .
 
How can these be the answers to Islamic Apologism when there were no questions?
 
Religion is the neurosis of the weak & unthinking , a form of reasoning turning truth into filth ..
Religion has allowed powerful organizations to control the minds of humans for thousands of years .

Every time I meet a god follower I cringe .

But save as with one exception, they are mostly harmless fantasy. Islam is not just a religion, but a supremacist political philosophy that is directed at world domination, and the destruction with extreme violence of all other forms of government, religion, legal systems and cultures. That makes it a lot more dangerous.
 
Calanen, you haven't answered the question asked earlier:
What's your purpose in starting this thread?
Don't you think we are capable of making up our own minds about Islam or any other religion?
 
Calanen, you haven't answered the question asked earlier:
What's your purpose in starting this thread?
Don't you think we are capable of making up our own minds about Islam or any other religion?

No, I don't. And here's why.

Islam is extraordinarily complex. It is the astrophysics of religion. Most people, and that is like 99.999% will never bother to do the learning that is required to know the truth about what Islam is and does. The MTV generation, the WII generation, the Counter Strike generation - would never have the patience or attention span to study in detail what Islam is about - its all very boring - and dude where's my Xbox?.

Far easier to just recite whatever mantras of Islamic apologism are about than ever learn enough to ever make an informed decision based on facts or evidence. Religion of Peace, Lincoln and Shakespeare were actually muslims, muslims discovered every major scientific advancement etc etc. The feelgood story of the multicultist.

I once thought as most do, that Islam is the religion of peace but there are just a few tiny minority of extremist misunderstanders that spoil it for everyone. But something did not add up for me, and so I decided to do some learning. And, gees did learn a lot.

So Julia, if you are saying, decide for myself by considering no facts and evidence and living in denial, then be my guest. No one can stop you from being wilfully blind. If however you are someone who will consider a viewpoint on its own merits, then perhaps my threads are for you.
 
Islam is not just a religion, but a supremacist political philosophy that is directed at world domination, and the destruction with extreme violence of all other forms of government, religion, legal systems and cultures. That makes it a lot more dangerous.

Yes it seems your correct regarding the extremists .
And they are quickly multiplying !
 
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