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Julia (and Disarray etc)
your turn to answer a question or two ..
no ... I'll give you my answer...
c) how would any of you blokes / ladies like it if your kids were taken forcibly from you?
d) would you feel that you were entitled to an apology at least?
answer
c) I would feel that the people who did it were the most sinful bastards on the planet, irrespective of whether they were flashing a bible around . I would lose all trust in Whitey and respect for his law.
(and I would possibly die within a few years of heartache - which is also what happened in many cases).
d) you bet I would
so noi - you imply you could care less about the plight of currently alive stolen generation, yes?
incidentally, my grandfather was born a breach birth out near Birdsville in the 1800's - only an Ab widwife - no white woman for 100's of kms. Only had Ab kids to play with until his brother came along (and joined the group lol )-
sure jman - I've worked with em too in rural qld , and I fully realise that they can go AWOL - Ab walkabout without leave. often to come back with a hangover and a $100 taxi fare to pay . But having said all that, the majority were responsible the majority of the time, great sense of humour , and we can either give the next generation a chance to improve, or keep bleating about how useless they are (ignoring their mitigating circumstances) - and pretending we had nothing to do with their predicament.
so noi - you imply you could care less about the plight of currently alive stolen generation, yes?
Great, Great, and many more, Uncle Fred was dispossessed of his land in Essex, England, by William the Conqueror in 1066. This land went to one of his Generals and I want it back.
well 2020, I'm not sure it is quite like that. Most of America is really owned by the Indians, and Canada.
Everyone in Australia has an equal right to justice and I accept, that is sadly lacking in some parts, as a sad rape case highlighted.
Help should, in my view, always be limited to giving people equal rights and opportunities. Giving bundles of cash stops anyone from having the will to work.
I have similar concerns that others above have mentioned.
What happened "back then" was wrong - in all of our opinion, right?
But rather than trying to imagine what it was like back then, or the intentions or motivations of the parties involved - we have a very obvious example of history repeating. We can understand "then" in the context of now...
IMHO, one of the reasons for the recent fed gov intervention in NT - was the elections. Let's put that aside though... Does any rational well meaning person think that the state of affairs (child/women abuse, rape etc) should be allowed to continue?
If not, what is the solution? From what I see, if the government intervenes too strongly, they get slammed for that - if children are removed from bad situations we hear the chant of "stolen". If the government does nothing, then the humanists complain that something should be done... So whatever happens, there will be criticism and unhappy people.
On one hand we are told that indigenous people want to police themselves as they can't live with "white" law... on the other hand we have indigenous people complaining they want intervention...
As someone born in Australia (who's parents emigrated here in the 70's from a country that was once subjugated by the British Empire), I think I'm a pretty decent person. Whilst I think a lot of bad was done, and I feel regret for what happened - I am not sorry. And it may seem lame, but I'm not sorry because I didn't do it.
Now, to have 20 million people arguing about that in the context of women & children being mistreated seems to be missing the point. As is the fact that there is a magical X amount of dollars that will improve the situation?
If your kids have been stolen - no amount of $ will make that better. Nor if you are a stolen child, will $ make your life magically better...
To me, it seems that compared to the indigenous people in other countries - aborigines, are finding it a huge struggle to integrate into our society. I know, the setting in NZ was quite different - given the treaty of Waitangi and all that. For whatever reason, the Maori have been able to integrate a lot more (not completely) into the society of NZ. Why can't that happen in Australia?
I think government handouts or monetary compensation are not necessarily a solution - it doesn't promote self reliance or independance. I think education is the main thing that needs to be addressed. And I think we need to promote integration into mainstream society... like it or loathe it (our mainstream society), it is what the majority of us exist within. Tradition and culture is important, but as the many ethnic groups in Australia show - you can have your culture, and function in society.
My granpa was born less than 20 years after Burke & Wills died at the Dig tree, and just a coupla hundred kms up Coopers Ck from there -
Burke the idiot refused to trust the Abs and paid the ultimate price,
Wills would have trusted them
King lived with the Abs for weeks, learning their unique skills, and was finally rescued
Interesting, Chops. Thanks for that insight.To get any sort of compensation, judges will look at many things. If you have any drug or alcohol problems, you wont get anything. If you have a checkered employment history, it will reduce it significantly. If you can't prove you have attempted to get help for the problems complained about, or shown financial hardship for trying to access these things, you wont get anything. I doubt many of these people who want compensation will fit the criteria needed. But if they have, if they have a decent employment history, have sort help, don't have alcohol or drug problems, then I'd say most people here would be pretty compassionate towards that.
But I've said this previously. Compensation wont solve anything. Because no doubt, many will fail the criteria above, and wont get anything. And then of course you have the claims of a racist justice system etc etc. But yeah, even smokers will have compensation payments reduced. The level that some of these get down to is really crazy when you hear about them fairly regularly. And I think in previous cases, stolen generation compensation claims have been thrown out of court.
Thank you 2020.brave post Julia
I'll back off a bit
call it a Xmas gesture
ava merry one
The Federal Government is preparing an apology, but has rejected renewed calls from Aboriginal leaders to compensate people who were forcibly removed from their families.
Placement stability
As the following table shows, a high proportion of children (based on the experiences of Inquiry witnesses) experienced multiple placements following their removal.
Placement types, Inquiry witnesses
Placement Number Percent
Single institution........ 88......... 25.1%
Multiple institutions or institution followed by work placement ......... 95 ...... 27.1%
Single foster/adoptive placement ...... 50 .......... 14.3%
Multiple foster/adoptive placements ......... 6 ......... 1.7%
Institution(s) then foster/adoption or placement followed by institutionalisation .......... 95 ................ 27.3%
Other ............. 16 .............. 4.6%
Total for whom information available ................ 350 .............. 100%
Sexual assaults reported by Inquiry witnesses
Placement ....... Males (reported)... (not reported) ...... Females (reported) ... (not reported)
Institution ..... 10 (8.5%)..... (91.5%) ........... 19 (11.7%) ...... 144 (88.3%)
Foster family ..... 5 (10%) ...... 45 (90%) ..... 21 (29.6%) .... 50 (70.4%)
Adoptive family .... 1 (4.8%) .... 20 (95.2%) ..... 6 (27.3%) .... 16 (72.7%)
Work ... 0 ( - ) .... 19 (100%) .... 4 (10.5%) .... 34 (89.5%)
Total .... 16 (7.7%) .... 192 (92.3%) ... 50 (17.0%) ... 244 (83.0%)
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