This is a mobile optimized page that loads fast, if you want to load the real page, click this text.

And we are off - Aboriginal leaders say $1 billion 'not sorry enough'

Julia (and Disarray etc)
your turn to answer a question or two ..
no ... I'll give you my answer...

c) how would any of you blokes / ladies like it if your kids were taken forcibly from you?
d) would you feel that you were entitled to an apology at least?

answer
c) I would feel that the people who did it were the most sinful bastards on the planet, irrespective of whether they were flashing a bible around . I would lose all trust in Whitey and respect for his law.

(and I would possibly die within a few years of heartache - which is also what happened in many cases).

d) you bet I would
 
They need to find self-respect before they start asking for an apology, or money for that matter. Then maybe they will have greater respect from Australia as a whole.

We have tried to hire many local people i.e. aboriginals, at our main mining and exploration operations as part of building community relationships. A very small percentage proved to be reliable and hard working, but the majority had no work ethic, consistently even failed to show up for work and generally lasted a week or two before disappering.

I would have thought the mining boom to be an ideal opportunity for them to showcase to Australia that "Yes, we are hard workers, and we are prepared to make a something of ourselves and help our people". But no, they don't really seem to be interested. I also find it interesting that many native titles suddenly "appear" overnight and conveniently happen to be adjacent to company mining leases....

Just my
 

20/20,

No-one is trying to say what happened wasn't wrong or terrible, of course it was. I think the problem a lot of poeple have is that the current white generation seem to be being held repsonsible for the sins of the past. And no, I didn't vote for Howard in case you are wondering. You eventually reach a point where you have to say enough is enough.

I have soo many friends back in NZ who give their right arm to have the opportunity I have been given to work in the mining industry, but when I see local aboriginal people just completely blowing this chance to help themselves and not even give a ****, it is really frustrating.

Giving them loads off money isn't going to do anything. There have been funerals in the town we work out of, and the $150 pp they get for coming doesn't go towards travel costs incurred getting to the funeral or finding accommodation, it goes on grog mate.

I really want to see them become a proud and successful people, but they absolutely have to find themselves first, and above all start respecting themselves.
 
My Great, Great - & lots more - Grandfather was shipped from England in the year 284, by the Romans, and was torn to shreads by a lion in the Arena.
As the Pope is now in Rome and head of the Vatican, I think he should take responsibility and send me 100 million euros in compensation.

Great, Great, and many more, Uncle Fred was dispossessed of his land in Essex, England, by William the Conqueror in 1066. This land went to one of his Generals and I want it back.

...and seriously folks, my Great, Great, Great Grandfather was swindled by a partner, in the 1840's, and finished his days in Australia, thought to have been N.S.W. My share of the money he took was about one twentieth of $500,000 and I think the Goverment should cough up.

Aboriginals do get royalties on mining rights all over Australia. Whether the figures are fair or not I've no way of knowing. So, to some degree pay back time is underway now and far into the future.
 
so noi - you imply you could care less about the plight of currently alive stolen generation, yes?

incidentally, my grandfather was born a breach birth out near Birdsville in the 1800's - only an Ab widwife - no white woman for 100's of kms. Only had Ab kids to play with until his brother came along (and joined the group lol ) -

sure jman - I've worked with em too in rural qld , and I fully realise that they can go AWOL - Ab walkabout without leave. often to come back with a hangover and a $100 taxi fare to pay . But having said all that, the majority were responsible the majority of the time, great sense of humour , and we can either give the next generation a chance to improve, or keep bleating about how useless they are (ignoring their mitigating circumstances) - and pretending we had nothing to do with their predicament.
 

20/20

All of my experiences with local indigenous communities has been in remote WA areas, I have heard people say that the eastern communities have a bit more respect for the authorites in general and a slightly better "reputation", I definitely believe you when you say that you had a good expereince with them in QLD, I just haven't seen evidence of that over here yet. Open to debate of course.
 
so noi - you imply you could care less about the plight of currently alive stolen generation, yes?

well 2020, I'm not sure it is quite like that. Most of America is really owned by the Indians, and Canada.
Everyone in Australia has an equal right to justice and I accept, that is sadly lacking in some parts, as a sad rape case highlighted.
Help should, in my view, always be limited to giving people equal rights and opportunities. Giving bundles of cash stops anyone from having the will to work.
 
jman -
maybe there's a moral in this story as well

My granpa was born less than 20 years after Burke & Wills died at the Dig tree, and just a coupla hundred kms up Coopers Ck from there -

Burke the idiot refused to trust the Abs and paid the ultimate price,
Wills would have trusted them
King lived with the Abs for weeks, learning their unique skills, and was finally rescued

Incidentally also, I've recently been to both Pilbara and Townsville - on each occasion I saw many well dressed and close-knit Ab families - siblings spoiling babies of the family, cuddling them, taking them to see billboards, explaining etc all good, very wholesome at first impression anyway, showing promise imo.
 
Great, Great, and many more, Uncle Fred was dispossessed of his land in Essex, England, by William the Conqueror in 1066. This land went to one of his Generals and I want it back.

Nice spot Essex , t'was born there . If it was your land , sorry , I thought it was a hand me down , but , you can't have it back , We've got the deed .

Even if you get Liz to ask nicely , you've got buckleys ...........

That's just the way it goes , time will heal the anguish , for any other problems , your'e on your own cobber . But hey ...... we still have a trunk full of IOU's from Phillip the Fairs administration and I don't think there's enough Euros to compensate for it ............... so diddlies there .


......... and that's basically how it goes and has done since Adam stuffed up .

Now if someone was to even attempt to square the books , they wouldn't know where to start and that's where we have found ourselves , ten foot from the starters line in a muddle .

The catalyst for the entire mess it will cause , will be the interpretation of the law , by whoever gets the job of overseeing the cleanup . They've got so many corners and loopholes in it , they'll need interpreters for the law alone .

Either that or we'll end up looking pretty medieval , cheap banana republic etc etc .
 

noi
yes, but lets start with sorry.

The only reason compensation is being discussed is that so many round here seem determined that the Abs should not get any $$.

it's a long shot whether money will even change hands. But if it does
a) we can ( or have to be able to) afford it, and
b) we have no right to get in the way of justice being dispensed if it is due to these folk.
 
I have similar concerns that others above have mentioned.

What happened "back then" was wrong - in all of our opinion, right?

But rather than trying to imagine what it was like back then, or the intentions or motivations of the parties involved - we have a very obvious example of history repeating. We can understand "then" in the context of now...

IMHO, one of the reasons for the recent fed gov intervention in NT - was the elections. Let's put that aside though... Does any rational well meaning person think that the state of affairs (child/women abuse, rape etc) should be allowed to continue?

If not, what is the solution? From what I see, if the government intervenes too strongly, they get slammed for that - if children are removed from bad situations we hear the chant of "stolen". If the government does nothing, then the humanists complain that something should be done... So whatever happens, there will be criticism and unhappy people.

On one hand we are told that indigenous people want to police themselves as they can't live with "white" law... on the other hand we have indigenous people complaining they want intervention...

As someone born in Australia (who's parents emigrated here in the 70's from a country that was once subjugated by the British Empire), I think I'm a pretty decent person. Whilst I think a lot of bad was done, and I feel regret for what happened - I am not sorry. And it may seem lame, but I'm not sorry because I didn't do it.

Now, to have 20 million people arguing about that in the context of women & children being mistreated seems to be missing the point. As is the fact that there is a magical X amount of dollars that will improve the situation?

If your kids have been stolen - no amount of $ will make that better. Nor if you are a stolen child, will $ make your life magically better...

To me, it seems that compared to the indigenous people in other countries - aborigines, are finding it a huge struggle to integrate into our society. I know, the setting in NZ was quite different - given the treaty of Waitangi and all that. For whatever reason, the Maori have been able to integrate a lot more (not completely) into the society of NZ. Why can't that happen in Australia?

I think government handouts or monetary compensation are not necessarily a solution - it doesn't promote self reliance or independance. I think education is the main thing that needs to be addressed. And I think we need to promote integration into mainstream society... like it or loathe it (our mainstream society), it is what the majority of us exist within. Tradition and culture is important, but as the many ethnic groups in Australia show - you can have your culture, and function in society.
 
I remember watching a TV programme about Alexander the Great (Alexander 111rd of Macedon, Greece), and some people are still upset and feeling disadvantaged by what was done over 2,300 years ago.
Sure, he founded 70 cities and fought for many years without defeat. But many peoples suffered and are still affected to this day.
After listening to their case, I feel, even after all this time, they should be compensated.
 

Hey 20/20, 5000 posts, congrats mate!

Driver, I agree with almost everything you say, as a kiwi myself the situation with the subjugation and empowerment of the Maori culture was a little different. There are also "remote" areas in NZ of poverty and very low employment amongst Maori, but I daresay if NZ shared the geographical vastness of Aust then we would probably have problems as well.

For some reason, the Maori culture seems to have been assimilated and embraced by the "European's" in NZ quite successfully. Maori generally have a very strong political voice often disproportionate to their actual numbers. NZ was also the first country in the world to give women the vote, so you could say we are progresive, although I don't really know how this came about.

I believe that indigenous statistics in the eastern states are a lot more positive than out here in the west, with significant numbers of aboriginals holding down a good job and owning their own home. Integration and education is the key, indigenous communities just have to be convinced as well, which is the hard part.
 

It's interesting you bring that up. I'm among the closest living descendants of a guy named Ernest Giles, given he died without kids (Great Grandad's brother, or close to). You may have heard of him: first white man to travel from Adelaide to Perth via land not along the coast; first white man to see Uluru; named Mount Olga (subsequently called the Olgas), has a weather station named after him, his work led to the exploration of the Goldfields, named the Gibson Desert etc etc.

Anyway, he credited his survival purely to his aboriginal trackers, one in particular, who he treated very well apparently. That gratefulness has been in the family ever since. My pop for instance, who was a country school headmaster, would take my mum and her siblings out to the reserves (back in the days where this would have led to him being sacked and never being allowed to work anywhere again) to give them food, clean water, and to make sure the kids were coming to school/ checking up on the ones that didn't. So yeah, I don't have much time for older folk here who never had the courage to see these sorts of things for themselves, and claim not to have been responsible for anything. Because it was right there.

Just thought I'd write that little story up.
 
Interesting, Chops. Thanks for that insight.

Driver, your infrequent posts contribute clarity and logic - much appreciated.

Jman (you are in NZ I think?) I lived all my life in NZ and simply regarded the Maori people as New Zealanders. No different from me. Wonderful musical and many other talents. All those I knew had a great work ethic and valued education. I've been in Oz now for 15 years and friends in NZ tell me there is more racial tension these days. Is this right? Is it clear why?

2020, as others have said, no one is disputing past abuse. I have repeatedly said it's fine with me to say sorry, or whatever you like.
Please stop behaving as if I have no understanding of what it is like.
I would have preferred not to say this on a public forum but I was myself repeatedly sexually abused by my own grandfather throughout my childhood. I have dealt with it and moved on so please just leave it alone.
 
I would love to see a comparison, between the stolen generation and the kids of same age, that stayed with their families.
A good documentary....don't you think?
 
Gspot - here are some stats... refer http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/special/rsjproject/rsjlibrary/hreoc/stolen/stolen18.html

Which ones do you want to interview? the ones in institutions once? twice?
 
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more...