greggles
I'll be back!
- Joined
- 28 July 2004
- Posts
- 4,460
- Reactions
- 4,494
That's an understatement.....The problem with aluminium is it is energy intensive
Yes smurph, but the cost of production, will cause more smelters to close, this in turn will constrict supply.That's an understatement.....
The electricity needed to produce just one tonne of aluminium would run the average Australian house for about 3 years.
If it is going to be aluminum v plastic, which is the better for recycling? I would have thought aluminum. Now that the environmentalists have got the ear of big business and the politicians they will begin to dictate ever more of the green agenda and responsible recycling will play a big role in this. China no longer wants our recyclables so it will fall back into our own back yard. Refined aluminum has value, used plastic is a liability.Yes smurph, but the cost of production, will cause more smelters to close, this in turn will constrict supply.
Whereas the demand will rise, as the auto industry will have to make cars lighter, especially as we move toward EV's they will have to be lighter to conserve battery energy.
So the demand for aluminium goes up, the supply falls off, can only lead to one outcome. IMO
Eventually when autonomous cars are mainstream, plastic will be the main component it E.V's, as structural strength and safety won't be an issue. Then I guess aluminium demand will fall away, as I said, just my thoughts.
If cars can be made out of recycled plastic and be continually recycled, it solves the issue of what to do with waste plastic.If it is going to be aluminum v plastic, which is the better for recycling? I would have thought aluminum. Now that the environmentalists have got the ear of big business and the politicians they will begin to dictate ever more of the green agenda and responsible recycling will play a big role in this. China no longer wants our recyclables so it will fall back into our own back yard. Refined aluminum has value, used plastic is a liability.
I think recycling anything is awesome, it would all come down to cost, I should think. What is cheaper to recycle aluminum or plastic? I would have no idea but it could be worth a look. It might give us a view of the future. How many times can aluminum be recycled and how many times can plastic be recycled? What will become land fill first? Just some rhetorical questions for interest, unless someone actually knows the answer?If cars can be made out of recycled plastic and be continually recycled, it solves the issue of what to do with waste plastic.
The reason cars currently aren't made of plastic, is due to structural strength and safety issues, this wont be an issue when cars are electric and drive autonomously.
I think the energy and time involved in extruding plastic car bodies, would be much less than that required to make the current steel and aluminium chassis/body configuration, it is certainly an interesting time in our history.I think recycling anything is awesome, it would all come down to cost, I should think. What is cheaper to recycle aluminum or plastic? I would have no idea but it could be worth a look. It might give us a view of the future. How many times can aluminum be recycled and how many times can plastic be recycled? What will become land fill first? Just some rhetorical questions for interest, unless someone actually knows the answer?
There's also an emerging push toward "green" aluminium as a differentiated product. RioTinto Alcan have done some deals with end users on that basis recently, Nestle would be one of the better known end users with such an arrangement, and it's a concept that has been around for quite some time particularly within the hydro power industry (at the global level the hydro and aluminium industries are heavily related, either by long term contracts or outright ownership, due to the huge power needs of the smelters). So that's trying to create a separate market for aluminium produced from renewable energy - it's a concept that potentially may appeal to the manufacturers of consumer products for image / marketing reasons.
Practical examples for two Australian smelters:So in effect where an aluminum company also owns or is affiliated with renewables such as hydro, this then classifies the Aluminum as 'green'?
That sounds like a win/win. Although I am not sure Nestles has a name it wants to protect, more like it is trying to lift its image from years of negative publicity.The basic concept behind this is the notion that companies, particularly those with a brand image to protect, maybe willing to pay a premium price for materials sourced in a manner which results in a lower environmental impact. For purely commercial reasons those smelters able to do that, and also their electricity suppliers, are keen on the concept since it improves their viability (and increases the bargaining position of the power supplier also).
How much is the standard $ per megawatt power by comparison?To put the costs into perspective, it is widely rumoured in the energy industry that the Tiwai Point deal with Meridian, which was extended last year, is priced at about NZD 55 per megawatt hour (MWh). I don't think either company has confirmed it but it sounds about right, it's the sort of number that you'd expect.
Household consumption including distribution fees, GST, retail margin etc will be in the $200 - $450 range generally depending on state and which retailer. Lower rates for intermittent off-peak supply (water heating etc).How much is the standard $ per megawatt power by comparison?
At AUD $2636 per tonne and paying $60 per MWh for electricity that's $900 worth of electricity to produce that tonne of aluminium or in other words one third of total revenue for the smelter goes straight to the electricity supplier.
Needless to say, if the smelters can't get future contracts at that sort of level, if those contracts are priced to reflect the higher prices in the spot market, well then the smelters in Australia won't be viable to continue.
Hello and welcome to Aussie Stock Forums!
To gain full access you must register. Registration is free and takes only a few seconds to complete.
Already a member? Log in here.