- Joined
- 10 June 2013
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- 17
No, the idea of ALF's investment methodology is that its returns are to a great extent independent of market movements. Essentially they buy stocks that they see as undervalued, but then they also offset this by shorting (essentially selling) a similar level of stocks that they see as being undervalued. If they offset within the same industries eg buy one mining stock and short another mining stock then if the mining industry plummets, in theory (if they pick the right long & shorts) they won't suffer as badly (or at all) because they are both long and short (essentially hedged). It can conversely mean though that when the markets are going gangbusters, the shorts can drag on their performance. It really relies on them getting their longs and shorts right, if they do they can seriously outperform (especially during market downturns) but if they don't then their losses can be magnified. I sold out (luckily still at a small profit) a while ago after a period of underperformance, thinking that their investment style just wasn't for me.So,... it's been doing badly recently because the mkt has been doing well ??
I think he was talking about managed funds rather than LIC's per se, and their underperformance was in a big way due to the fees that they charged. There are several big LICs that charge no fees, and whose management expense ratios are as low as 0.13%.Also, didn't Buffett's wager prove that over 10 years the ETF outperformed the LIC by 70%? So we're not talking a slight outperformance.
Tq GT,... Looks to me like this is a 'gambling ctr',...No, the idea of ALF's investment methodology is that its returns are to a great extent independent of market movements. Essentially they buy stocks that they see as undervalued, but then they also offset this by shorting (essentially selling) a similar level of stocks that they see as being undervalued. If they offset within the same industries eg buy one mining stock and short another mining stock then if the mining industry plummets, in theory (if they pick the right long & shorts) they won't suffer as badly (or at all) because they are both long and short (essentially hedged). It can conversely mean though that when the markets are going gangbusters, the shorts can drag on their performance. It really relies on them getting their longs and shorts right, if they do they can seriously outperform (especially during market downturns) but if they don't then their losses can be magnified. I sold out (luckily still at a small profit) a while ago after a period of underperformance, thinking that their investment style just wasn't for me.
I think he was talking about managed funds rather than LIC's per se, and their underperformance was in a big way due to the fees that they charged. There are several big LICs that charge no fees, and whose management expense ratios are as low as 0.13%.
Oops, just re-read my post - should read "they buy stocks that they see as undervalued, but then they also offset this by shorting (essentially selling) a similar level of stocks that they see as being overvalued".Essentially they buy stocks that they see as undervalued, but then they also offset this by shorting (essentially selling) a similar level of stocks that they see as being undervalued.
Tq for the correction,... I was confused there a moment ago,...Oops, just re-read my post - should read "they buy stocks that they see as undervalued, but then they also offset this by shorting (essentially selling) a similar level of stocks that they see as being overvalued".
Also, didn't Buffett's wager prove that over 10 years the ETF outperformed the LIC by 70%? So we're not talking a slight outperformance.
Hmm,... moving forward,... are we saying that ALF may not be able to perform anymore, unlike in the past ?
Looking back 10 years on the ASX, the big LIC's have substantially out performed the ETF's.
AFI Aust Foundation Investment - Vs - STW (ASX300) the only EFT that was listed back then.
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STW still trading under the March 2007 share price - as for ALF they are somewhat market neutral with their strategy, the share price has been a little weak as have the dividends over the last 12 months or so, they are only as good as their stock picks.
I have been reading your comments @Belli and noticed how one director JB has keeping himself busy in buying CD shares almost daily. What pecuniary interest he would or could have while investing back to the company he manages?It's years since I even looked at this "family" of LICs. I've never placed any funds in any of them as I seem to recall that a number of directors had, and maybe still do, a pecuniary interest in the management company. It put me off so I've just left them alone.
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